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frapermax
06-10-2010, 15:34
Had a 2000 point tournament 2 weeks ago. 3 games, only comp was no double rares, fleeing units give up VP at end of game. Scoring system: less than 100 VP difference is 4-4 draw, more is 6-2 win, more than double vp 8-2 win, opponent's army exterminated 10-2 win. A bit of a weird scoring system, but everybody could live with it.

My list:
I wanted to try the longevity of MSU

Supreme Sorceress lvl 4 shadow user, with pendant of cheeseth, and sacrificial dagger.

Sorceress lvl 2, Metal Magic, Scroll of shielding

Death Hag BSB with Cauldron of Blood

Core
17 Spearmen, Full command

18 Corsairs, xtra HW version, FC, Banner of Eternal Flame

5 Dark Riders, no options

5 Harpies

10 Crossbowmen with musician

Special
12 Black Guard, Full Command, Banner of Murder
12 Witch Elves, Musician
7 Witch Elves
1 Cold One Chariot

Rare
2 Reaper Bolt Throwers

So: Not an overly hard list, some nasty potential but definitely some weakness too.

First Game
Against Tomb Kings.
scenario was pitched battle,
He had 2x25 archers, 3 scorpions, hierophant, mage, prince, prince in chariot, screaming skull catapult, bone giant, 3 chariots

He deployed his archers 12 wide across the middle, chariots and catapult to his left, one scorpion and his giant in between the archer units, 2 scorpions burrowed, one each near my RBT's.
I deploy spread out, corsairs shielding the BG, chariot shielding the witches.

Turn 1:
DE
I move up as hard as I can, Dark riders (after vanguard) get behind his line on my left flank. Shooting fails, killing 1 archer
TK
He shoots a lot, killing 7 corsairs and repositions his scorpion to go after the DR behind his lines. In magic he shoots a lot again, killing some models left and right.
(All his magic and shooting + slightly pulling back his loose archers takes a lot of time)

Turn 2:
DE:
I move up more to get in charging range. Shooting takes 2W off his giant and kills some archers.

TK:
he shuffles back his archers again. His scorpions both come on and take out my RBT (small scatter only)
Loads of shooting reduces corsairs to 1 rank,
In magic he shoots some more, doing little damage and he charges his scorpion into the DR. He kills 3 DR, they flee and get away.

Turn 3:
DE
I charge what I can but nothing gets the range.
DR rally.

TK:
he moves up his chariots with prince close to corsairs and moves his bone giant near flank of BG. One scorpion kills of DR and he magics his giant into my BG, who hurt it, but can't kill it. Crucially, I stop his chariots charging me magically.

End of game... WTF??
Due to him having all this shooting and having to move his models without movement trays, our 2,5 hours are gone. Pity, but I can forgive my opponent because he was a nice guy and I think rather new to tournaments.
he wins by 285-0 or an (8-2).
If we could have played one more turn, I would have killed his prince and chariots with a flank charge from my chariot, 4 corsairs and 12 pumped up witches, charged his archers (only 2 ranks) with my spearmen and 7 witches. That way I could have leveled or even won the game (depending on BG-giant battle outcome)
Alas, it was down to the bottom tables for me.
Heads up, I've got 2 points, hehe.

game 2 and 3 coming up soon.


Top

frapermax
06-10-2010, 15:34
Game 2 against a nicely painted all goblin army played by Dimitri.
scenario is dawn attack
He had 40-50 big horde of NG with nets and 3 fanatics,
3x25 NG of which 2 had 3 fanatics, one had bows, 1 wolf chariot, 8 squig hoppers, 5 wolf riders, 2 bolt throwers, 1 rock lobba, 1 doomdiver, gobbo general, bsb, hero, lvl4 and lvl 2 giving him all spells from little waagh.
I roll Pit of Shades but switch it to the signature spell to be nice. We bottom table guys are like that... Learn from it you WAAC bar stewards :wink:

Deployment sees all my opponents units go in the middle with his horde on his left. I'm pretty much spread out, meaning my left flank units (corsairs, spears) will have to run hard.

Turn 1

Goblins
He moves most of his units up about 4".
Magic is soft and mostly out of range or dispelled.
Shooting isn't very effective, only killing some spears and taking 2W off the chariot.

DE
I run my corsairs and spears towards the action, and let the BG and chariot get some cover from a hill on the right while still closing in. My dark riders go around his line, threatening his BT and Rock Lobba on the left middle.
Shooting kills some goblins

Turn 2
Goblins
He moves up cautiously (too cautious). His units are close together. He kills some more stuff with shooting and magic, but nothing that hurts. His horde is squabbling here iirc

DE
I use my harpies to get his fanatics from 1 central unit and his horde. (BTW he claimed his fanatics would die if they hit the hill while I thought he could send them over it.) The fanatics block my right flank and try to get in the way in the centre, he only sends one towards the harpies, but doesn't reach. The corsairs bait the last 3 fanatics by moving close enoug but keeping asome impassable terrain between them and the unit. these fanatics just add to the mayhem in the middle. My DR charge his wolfriders, beat them and overrun into the bolt thrower.

Turn 3
Goblins
No charges because of all his fanatics. More than half of the latter destroy themselves on doubles, terrain or board edge. His Rock Lobba destroys itself after he killed off my chariot with magic.

DE
I declare a flank charge with my corsairs (through 1 fanatics) on his NG unit with BSB. He makes a critical mistake and flees. I then declare a charge with the 7 witches from 15" away on the same unit so he still has to flee, he goes through his own horde and the chariot. Both flee too (no rerolls because bsb is fleeing). All these units end up in his bottom left corner. I charge another unit with my BG, they hold.
Shooting and Magic are pretty uneventful, apart from a debuff on his NG in combat. I beat, pursue and destroy his NG unit.

Turn 3
Goblins
His squigs charge my BG. His BSB unit doesn't rally and runs off the table, his horde rallies, but is still far away.
He kills my DR with shooting and my harpies with magic. BG kill most squig hoppers but they hold on insane courage :lol:

DE
Corsairs charge his last NG unit, losing some to fanatics in the way. witches take out another warmachine. BG finish the squigs and reform. his NG hold against corsairs.

Turn 4
Goblins
He moves up his horde
He blows up his mage.
He kills off small witches unit but I can't remember how.

DE
I move up, eager to finish the fight.

game ends, time's up again. Hmmm, who said 8th was faster? I win 8-2. Having his horde on his left flank and all his other units close together in the middle screwed up the game for my opponent. I could run the DR around easily and pull out the fanatics all at once which hurt him as much as it did me. Bad luck for a great opponent (more about him later)

Next game will feature empire and 6 full turns played yeehaaa

frapermax
06-10-2010, 15:35
Game 3
Up against Greg's empire list
He had 30-40 swordsmen with 15 halberdiers detachment, 20 Greatswords, 20 crossbows, 10 handguns, 5 outriders, BSB, engineer, Lvl4 life, lvl1 ?, Priest, 1 cannon, 1 mortar, 1 Helblaster
scenario was meeting engagement, empire to set up first.
I stole away the opportunity to go first on 6 and this put my Greg at a real disadvantage. He had deployed with his cannon on his right flank, close to the divide, accompanied by his outriders. His GS to the right of his main block in the middle, then the handguns, helblaster and mortar and crossbows on his far left. I put my DR, and small witches unit within reach of his cannon, backed up by my crossbows and harpies. In the middle I had my BG and Corsairs. On the right I had my 12 witches covered by the chariot.
Turn1
DE
I charge his cannon with my 7 witches and my Dark Riders (DR). Kill it and overrun into his outriders. I move my chariot towards his crossbows, followed by the bigger witch elves unit. Harpies look at the Helblaster. Magic inconsequential, but in shooting I manage to kill 7 handgunners. This made the unit panic, bad news for him: his lvl 4 is in there too. They run to within 5" of the board edge. Khaine is smiling upon me now.
Empire:
He hardly moves, just bringing up his detachment and GS in line. In shooting he kills some corsairs, and blasts the harpies away with his Helblaster. His Handguns + mage rally and he brings back 4 handgunners.

Turn 2:
DE: I charge his detachment with the witches and his main block with the corsairs. I also charge his crossbows with the chariot. In magic I debuff his swordsmen's S and WS. Shooting sees some GS go down to RxB and some more handguns die, making him flee again, this time to right on the board edge. The witches kill a lot of halberds but they hold due to steadfast. The corsairs win also, but the swordsmen hold, cutting a rank of the raiders. The chariot kills 5 crossbowmen and they break (out of BSB range) and are overrun. I pursue off the board.

Empire:
He charges his greatswords in the flank of my witches and that's it. He rallies his handguns again. Magic does nothing, most of his shooting is gone. He still kills my DR with the Helblaster, but destroys it on his last shot. The mortar killed some spearmen.
In combat, the last 4 witches wipe the halberds, but get wiped by the Greatswords. The corsairs lose combat but hold.

Turn 3:
DE
Chariot comes back on and moves to within 10" of his mortar. Witches charge his engineer who flees and gets away. BG move up to relieve corsairs when they break. RxB's kill some more greatswords.
RBT's can't kill anything, but I get a wound of the mage. In combat the last 2 corsairs hold on insane courage.

Empire
His Greatswords move towards my RxB. his mage and Handgunners move up. His mage heals himself and boosts the swordsmen. The swordsmen kill off the corsairs. Oh, and his engineer rallied.

Turn 4:
DE
I charge the BG into the swordsmen, the chariot into the mortar. Magic sees the swordsmen debuffed a bit. Shooting sees some more greatswords bite the dust (around 8 left) and the handgunners with mage run again. In combat I beat the swordsmen solidly but they hold on steadfast. Mortar is removed. Witches charge engineer again, but he escapes again.

Empire:
He charges his Greatswords in my RxB, stand and shoot kills 1 or 2. In combat I kill 2 GS, he kills 3 of mine and I run but escape. The swordsmen are beaten and run, but they escape the BG. His mage keeps running and ends up 3" from the board edge.

Turn 5
DE
Witches catch the engineer, BG catch swordsmen, RxB rally.

Empire
His last 3 greatswords with BSB and priest charge my RxB again. They win, I flee and escape. His mage runs off the board.

Turn 6
DE RBT's take pot shots at BSB, priest and last GS (the standard) but both miss.

Empire
He charges last RxB, beats them but I manage to hold.

8-2 win

some thoughts on this battle and 8th ed. in next post.

frapermax
06-10-2010, 15:35
Some afterthoughts:
It was a great tournament. I went mainly to see some fellow ETC team members again and to try out my list. I ended 12th out of 36 players which is more than ok with me. The top 9 all got a nice prize as well. So everybody was pretty happy about the whole affair (one exception, see below).

My list works pretty ok.
The Supreme Sorceress is either supreme or just wasted points. She shines when the winds of magic blow above average, but is a very expensive naked lady when you roll 6 or lower for PD.

The normal Sorceress is only there for when I meet heavy armour, which didn't happen here.

The Cauldron of Blood is ubertastic, especially in combination with debuffs from shadow and lots of units to play with. Dropping the sorceress and adding a second cauldron is something I'd like to try one day.

Spears are food for the dagger, and they excel at it...

Corsairs are a top notch unit against low T, low armour troops. Any other case, they depend on the supreme.

One can never have enough support and both DR and harpies are among the best at what they do. Keep them cheap is the rule of thumb.

BG are still good, but smaller units are needed because they will give up their points.

Witches are the NEW HOT STUFF of DE for me. They can slaughter anything. Small units maximizes their attacks and minimize the danger from shooting.

Cold One Chariots are good at taking out small arms units and pretty hard to kill.

RBT are still good. Everybody knows hydra's are better, but to hell with that. They easily give up their points against any scout, tunneler or flyers so take that into account when deploying.

This was my 3rd 8th Edition tournament and I'm still having loads of fun. I don't mind playing with or without comp, since I comp myself a bit anyway and I play an army that's a bit more forgiving and pretty cheese resistant. But I think some comp will be needed, especially for players with armies that suffer more from the powerbuilds. I say this because of 2 reasons:
1) Giving everybody a fun weekend (or day) is more important than giving an advantage to WAAC players.
My second round opponent can testify to this:
After the tournament I asked him how his third game went...
He said he had managed a draw, but hated every second of it. He was playing against the reserve player who had a HE, book of Hoeth list. He played IF Dwellers every round, making Dimitri take off half units and characters every magic phase. (Purple Sun could even have been worse). There were no HE tactics to be seen, even with a microscope. Some loser was having a perverted kind of fun at Dimitri's expense. Since some players don't seem to be able to limit themselves (even at table 18 out of 18), TO's will have to do it for them by adding comp or by explicitly saying that your money is wasted if you bring a soft army list.

2) Comp can just be seen as extra scenario. When you see it like that, there is nothing against it really, and all of a sudden players seem a lot more reasonable when comp is in play.

Reactions welcome
(WAAC-daisies please abstain, there are more than enough threads for you)
FPM

Malorian
06-10-2010, 16:08
"Supreme Sorceress lvl 4 shadow user, with pendant of cheeseth, and sacrificial dagger."

The pendant on a sorceress isn't cheese, that's what it was suppose to be for.


That first game was a real waste of time. He really should have movement trays, tournament or not.


"He blows up his mage.
He kills off small witches unit but I can't remember how."

Perhaps casting the spell that made him blow up? ;)

He really should have moved up to release those fanatics on turn two. Good for you for handling it so well though.

And how do you keep running out of time? How much time did they give you?


"I stole away the opportunity to go first on 6"

I really hate this rule... believe it or not but both times I've played that scenario I've have my opponent steal first turn...

This was a really good game, you picked him apart, and glad you actually got to play all 6 turns ;)


Unless that HE player had Teclis he should have killed himself with miscasts pretty quick...


Thanks for all the reports! Great way to start the day! :D