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exodusofman
11-10-2010, 00:13
I know there are people who believe that Garviel Loken died on Istvan and others(myself included that do not) so i was looking at the release of the Garro audio books on BL and decided hey lets see what garro looks like. so I clicked and I was like yeah he's awsum. I then clicked the second Garro cd and it startled me. At first I thought it was a Fail because the marine on the cover has the colours and emblems of the Luna wolves and Garro is a death guard so I was like wait what?

Went back analized the armour and it's nothing like the other marines I then looked at the background of the second Garro CD and it seems to be on a planet that just got the heck blown outta it coupled with the amount of rubble on the ground this leads me to believe the marine in question is none other than Garviel Loken. what do you guys think? I am i right? Is there something I'm missing? Is this just an art failure on BL's part like with False Gods and Horus rising(the covers make no sense because HR has sons of horus and FG has luna wolves but in FG they had become sons of horus)

The 1st audio book I looked at was this one(with Straight arrow Garro)

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Audio/Garro-Oath-of-Moment.html

The 2nd is the one with the marine i suspect is Loken


http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Audio/Garro-Legion-of-One.html

bruceadsero
11-10-2010, 01:40
Nothing can breach the Astrates Mark IV plot armor, not even a oribital bombardment.

coyote1066
11-10-2010, 01:56
I have to say you may be on to something if it hasn't been posted before.

The front of the armor on the second cover does appear to have a scratched out wolf emblem. Loken could be considered the last of the Luna Wolves...even though the synopsys suggests that Garro is the "legion of one".

Interesting.

Edit: I'm not at home right now so I can't double check, but if memory serves, wasn't there a Luna Wolf with Garro during "Flight"...maybe its him, not Loken.

Edit again: Yeah, Iacton, Captain of the 3rd Company. That's probably him, not Loken, sorry. :( I too would love to see Loken re-appear but that's unlikely.

Lord Asgul
11-10-2010, 02:02
Iacton Qruze of the Luna Wolves is with him

Lightning Strike!
11-10-2010, 02:48
I wish Loken would stay dead. It makes his and Tarik's last stand against Aximand and Abaddon that much more heroic. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the plan according to Dan.

Is that him though? I doubt it. I imagine it's probably the half-heard.

exodusofman
11-10-2010, 04:27
I wish Loken would stay dead. It makes his and Tarik's last stand against Aximand and Abaddon that much more heroic. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the plan according to Dan.

Is that him though? I doubt it. I imagine it's probably the half-heard.

looks a bit too young to be the half heard tho. The marine on the cover is young while the Half heard is old even by marine standards.

I'm definitly scooping both these CD's up asap. 1. will tell us wtf malcadoe is sending him to do(rumour which I agree with is that he is collecting all loyalists survivors of teh now renagade chapters and they will become grey knights) 2. see if I am right and If that is indeed Loken

Lightning Strike!
11-10-2010, 04:39
looks a bit too young to be the half heard tho. The marine on the cover is young while the Half heard is old even by marine standards.

I'm definitly scooping both these CD's up asap. 1. will tell us wtf malcadoe is sending him to do(rumour which I agree with is that he is collecting all loyalists survivors of teh now renagade chapters and they will become grey knights) 2. see if I am right and If that is indeed Loken

You make a good point. The Marine looks too young to be an "ancient amongst immortals", like the half-heard was.

Now I'm curious. :P

Carlos
11-10-2010, 07:15
Was I the only one picturing Brian Blessed yelling the topic name at the top of his lungs?

'Loken's alive?!? Birdmen, Dive!!'

Heero-Severus
11-10-2010, 07:19
Was I the only one picturing Brian Blessed yelling the topic name at the top of his lungs?

'Loken's alive?!? Birdmen, Dive!!'

a very audible LOL got me many puzzled expressions at work. thanks, made my monday morning a little better.

On topic... Loken, stay dead!

nagash66
11-10-2010, 07:20
I am just glad that James Swallow is not doing HH Blood Angels to care about the cover of legion of one :).

Nice find tho OP.

Allen
11-10-2010, 08:25
HH book covers are painfully inaccurate in portraying not only what you'll find inside the novel but also what is assumed to be official canon. Take a superficial look at previous HH book covers and you'll find non-existant or incorrectly portrayed armours, vehicles and even characters.

I don't think HH covers should be used to fuel for our wild mass guessings...they're too inaccurate even for that ;)

Lord Commander Eidolon
11-10-2010, 09:13
it is like this
in all the books that describe Loken he has hair
the luna wolf on the front of garro is as bald a baby
oh yeah qruze had no hair
so put it together and what dya get?

Heero-Severus
11-10-2010, 09:49
it is like this
in all the books that describe Loken he has hair
the luna wolf on the front of garro is as bald a baby
oh yeah qruze had no hair
so put it together and what dya get?

A haircut?

Lord-Caerolion
11-10-2010, 10:41
A haircut?

No, for the Space Marines have Ultra-Hair, the secret 20th geneseed organ, that makes their hair as tough as steel, to be used for strangling those damn Avatars.

MagosHereticus
11-10-2010, 10:57
yay! garro is the first supreme lord of the inquisition!

Iuris
11-10-2010, 11:01
I liked Loken, but he should stay dead. Now, his recovered geneseed... could well be a good source of, saaaay, a special space marine formation dedicated to fighting demons :)

Heero-Severus
11-10-2010, 11:05
I liked Loken, but he should stay dead. Now, his recovered geneseed... could well be a good source of, saaaay, a special space marine formation dedicated to fighting demons :)

Based on what? Id imagine that all seed of Horus would be destroyed.

x-esiv-4c
11-10-2010, 11:22
Loken is very much alive.

Iuris
11-10-2010, 11:42
Based on what? Id imagine that all seed of Horus would be destroyed.

So would you of Mortarion, I expect, but Garro is already practically the father of the Inquisition for 90% of the fans who follow HH ...

Lord Lorne Walkier
11-10-2010, 20:05
I think the Astartes on the cover of Legion of one IS Loken. There are people who say they are in the know who think it is Qruze though. There are 4 reasons why i have felt it was Loken.

1. The Luna Wolf icons combined with the Sons of Horus Icons and colors. The Eye of Horus on the shoulder and the off white of the paint says to me it can't be Qruze. He repainted his amour to the White of the Luna Wolves. I cant see him using the Eye of Horus any more. Loken would not have ha time to repaint his amour nor do i see him being overly worries with how he looked.

2. The age of the Astartes on the cover dose not scream to me to be old. The half heard looked old to every one. If i were to draw a picture of him i think the aspect of his character would have to be more dominate. I would think he would be all wrinkles and Grey. The short hair dose not trouble me overly. I don't think the length of hair say anything really. I don't remember the authors saying His hair was always kept long, just that it was fair.

3. The weapons are those Loken used. The Bolter and chain sword to me are the signature weapons of no one other then Loken. The traditional weapons of a Luna Wolf / Sons of Horus Capitan was power Gladius and Bolt pistol. Sure any astartes would have access to these most common weapons but no other captain i have ever read of used these weapons to the exclusion of more specialized war gear their rank would have given them access too. Qruze to my knowledge used the Gladius. I also think he would have had an older mark then IV, which it looks like this guy has. Loken used mark IV I think Qruze would have had some Mark II parts. Some might think the weapons shown on the cover are not important. I cant think of a reason why anything on the cover would not be very important. Why would you as a artist not use every little bit of space to tell the best story you can? A picture is worth a thousand words right?

4. The battle damage and the ruins in the background says this guy has been through one hell of a fight. There is still blood on his chain sword and every inch of his amour has scratches and dints. Sure battle damage is the life of every Astartes but this looks like Istvaan III to me.

The fact that Loken lived passed the end of Gif is not worth debate any more. The authors say he did. What it says about the tragedy of the HH or if its lame remains to be revealed. I think Garro would be the logical choice to send back to Istvaan to see if anyone made it. Loken and any other survivors would be a valuable resource in the years to come. Ive been saying this for like 2 years though.....

Karl MkVI
11-10-2010, 20:22
You're onto something OP, one way or the other; it's definitely not Garro.

before we even consider the paint job, look again and notice that the armour isn't even physically the same; look at the shoulder guard in Oath of Moment, then compare it to Legion of One. also, compare Garro's trusted power sword (can't remember what its name was, but I believe FotE would be forthcoming if I had the book with me) with the chainsword. obviously not the same weapon. further to that, having revealed what Garro looks like on the cover of OoM, why darken his features so much for LoO? very interesting. even more interesting because, especially owing to Lorne's comments above, I really don't think it's Qruze.

I echo nagash66; nice find exodus!!

MKultraMAN
11-10-2010, 22:43
i recently read all the text in the collected visions book, and in there loken is listed as being one of the founding members of the inquisition, along with saul tarvitz and garro-now that book is such a jumble that i cant give a page number, but i know its there! however this book also seems to be filled with massive spoilers for the HH so read at your own peril-and no i don't mean horus loses--

Lord Lorne Walkier
11-10-2010, 22:59
i recently read all the text in the collected visions book, and in there loken is listed as being one of the founding members of the inquisition, along with saul tarvitz and garro-now that book is such a jumble that i cant give a page number, but i know its there! however this book also seems to be filled with massive spoilers for the HH so read at your own peril-and no i don't mean horus loses--

You might want to take the time to find the page #'s on this. I happen to believe that Loken dose along with Garro and Tarvitz form the GK's but to say it is cannon with out exact source information wont fly. That hound wont hunt. Trust me on this. I have the book near me and will go over it to try and find any mention of Loken. I can't remember any part of the book that talked about him by name. If you are thinking about the part on page 359, ware Malcador is talking to the Emperor about 12 hooded attendants, there is no names given.

Londinium
11-10-2010, 23:19
i recently read all the text in the collected visions book, and in there loken is listed as being one of the founding members of the inquisition, along with saul tarvitz and garro-now that book is such a jumble that i cant give a page number, but i know its there! however this book also seems to be filled with massive spoilers for the HH so read at your own peril-and no i don't mean horus loses--

I'm pretty sure Loken's not even in Collected Visions and Torgaddon is in it as a traitor. So I wouldn't exactly take that as cannon. I certainly can't remember there being any concrete reference to the people who would form the =I= in it. Either way I hate the idea that Loken is alive but Dan Abnett confirmed it so I'm guessing it's fairly likely to be him.

Lightning Strike!
11-10-2010, 23:30
Man that sounds strange when you say it out-loud. "I really like Loken. I sure hope he stays dead", lol.

Lord Lorne Walkier
12-10-2010, 01:35
Man that sounds strange when you say it out-loud. "I really like Loken. I sure hope he stays dead", lol.

I think the Irony of this feeling is a direct result of intentional emotional manipulation by the writers of Black Library. They knew from the beginning that Loken was going to survive a near death on Istvaan III. They did a great job of making him very likable. They give him features like a under-dog. He has no special war gear of any kind. He is not a "son" of Horus. He is not a Terran or high born. For all of these facts he still get 'er done better then any save for Abaddon. They set up his "death" to be tragic. They wanted people to invest emotion in his death. A-DB has said that he thought Loken's death was too convincing. He brought this up in his first meeting he had with the staff but they went with what they had anyway. I think they really wanted most people to think he was dead. Even if some like myself saw through their ruse it was ok because we would be shouted down. I think there were plenty of hints and foreshadowing but many think what i saw as good writitng as poor cohesion/ bad edditing/ shameless plot armour.

Hashulaman
12-10-2010, 08:59
I for one am not dissapointed at Loken returning. I feel so much more can be done with him.

Heero-Severus
12-10-2010, 11:46
So would you of Mortarion, I expect, but Garro is already practically the father of the Inquisition for 90% of the fans who follow HH ...

Again says who? , maybe a Pioneer for the Grey Knights, but not father of the whole inquisition. Would love to see the survey that polled the fans of HH that 90% gave such an opinion.

Phoebus
12-10-2010, 15:51
I guess I never bothered to contemplate the "emotional betrayal" of Loken's sacrifice being undone. At the end of the day, I remember that Space Marines have redundant organs, and a super-organ whose main function is to keep them alive even after deadly injuries.

Londinium
12-10-2010, 17:26
The problem with bringing him back is that it undermines the emotional underpinning of that opening trilogy. The whole point of it is that you see what the Luna Wolves and Imperium was once and you share Loken's journey as it all goes to hell. Also Loken being betrayed stands for all the marines that died on Istvaan and the trillions that died during the Heresy betrayed by their foremost protector.

To have him live through it, even if it is as a Grey Knight of part of the =I= just undermines that as it lessens the emotional resonance. If Loken turns up on Horus' Battle Barge in place of the Terminator/Custode/Ollanius Pius I will spit feathers. Same with this popular theory of Horus Aximand lowering the shields. Both are awful, awful ideas which would surpass Fulgrim being corrupted by a sword in their awfulness. This coming from a guy who by and large loves the new fluff and dislikes a lot of the moaning about it.

Karl MkVI
12-10-2010, 19:24
The problem with bringing him back is that it undermines the emotional underpinning of that opening trilogy. The whole point of it is that you see what the Luna Wolves and Imperium was once and you share Loken's journey as it all goes to hell. Also Loken being betrayed stands for all the marines that died on Istvaan and the trillions that died during the Heresy betrayed by their foremost protector.

To have him live through it, even if it is as a Grey Knight of part of the =I= just undermines that as it lessens the emotional resonance. If Loken turns up on Horus' Battle Barge in place of the Terminator/Custode/Ollanius Pius I will spit feathers. Same with this popular theory of Horus Aximand lowering the shields. Both are awful, awful ideas which would surpass Fulgrim being corrupted by a sword in their awfulness. This coming from a guy who by and large loves the new fluff and dislikes a lot of the moaning about it.

seconded. especially with the shields.

I've always thought that it was much better Horus dropping them; a final gambit by Horus himself to kill the Emperor, and an offer in return to end him; an offer that he knows his father cannot refuse. not yet another betrayal by some hardly-important background character, and certainly not a crack insertion by Garviel Loken! I quote Collected Visions and the old Bill King story (which was slotted into CV and expanded), from the perspective of the Warmaster himself: "He could still kill the Emperor". the gambit may seem desperate, but that's only due to the circumstances; the Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Space Wolves arriving imminently. whatever the case, what dropping the shields undoubtedly does show is immense confidence (hubris? ;)) from Horus; he knows he can take the Emperor down (or at least he thought he could). it's so much more epic, and a much more powerful moment, if Horus does it himself; orchestrating the final conflict between father and son, the final conflict that will decide the fate of the galaxy*

and i really hope it does end up that way. fortunately, there seems to be hope for this; Horus' words on the final page of Nemesis suggest that he very much intends to confront his father face-to-face.

*now read that sentence back again in the voice of Don La Fontaine. sometimes I impress even myself :D

Lord Lorne Walkier
13-10-2010, 00:22
The problem with bringing him back is that it undermines the emotional underpinning of that opening trilogy. The whole point of it is that you see what the Luna Wolves and Imperium was once and you share Loken's journey as it all goes to hell. Also Loken being betrayed stands for all the marines that died on Istvaan and the trillions that died during the Heresy betrayed by their foremost protector.

Well that is what you were set up to think and feel. They went to extreme lengths to get this reaction from you. You were set up. If you re reed the books knowing Loken lives you might not skip the hints that he will live on. The other fleshed out characters that did die like Torgaddon, Demeter, Ullis Temeter, Ehrlen, provide the sacrifice that you seem to crave. Their death provides the emotion for me. I think the fact that Loken Lives will make it harder on him and others. They will now have to walk the long road of revenge. Asking why they lived when all their brothers died. Trying to find meaning in a universe turned upside down. Having to hear their former Brothers , Primarch and Legion being cursed.