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kurisawa
12-10-2010, 02:00
I'm still awaiting delivery of the 8th rulebook. :cries:

I heard that the new terrain rules (the part about mysterious terrain - IE rolling up random features) was optional.

Does this mean...

1. "If both players agree on a house rule but it will affect how armies play and mess up the system of armies/units/points costs"

2. Yes. Random bits fully optional, but movement and other rules unaffected.

3. Keep playing with 7th ed terrain rules if you want!

If 2 or 3, this would help tremendously towards convincing my group to switch! :)

K.

Chris_
12-10-2010, 02:39
I would think nr. 2 is the right answer. Even though this might mess up some of the game mechanics.

stripsteak
12-10-2010, 03:33
the book gives two methods. use a random number of pieces from your collection, or make a random number of rolls on the table and use that...and of course the watchtower scenario that has its set piece.

and of course when playing with a closed group of friends you guys can do whatever you want.

kurisawa
12-10-2010, 07:01
the book gives two methods. use a random number of pieces from your collection, or make a random number of rolls on the table and use that...and of course the watchtower scenario that has its set piece.

and of course when playing with a closed group of friends you guys can do whatever you want.

Hmm, I think you may have misuderstood the question. :eyebrows:

I'm not too worried about how to generate terrain for the tabletop. My group hates (among other things) that you roll random effects from the terrain - such as woods that eat you, and so on. It's like wacky special rules for one-off "fun" scenarios that we used to GM for each other.

(These got out of hand when we had deathworld jungles with dinosaurs jumping out everywhere and man-eating plants - culminating in one game my friend GM'd where a tyranid-infested spaceship crashed in the middle of the table and genestealers poured out and started infecting regiments from both sides! :eek:)

Terrain (or indeed weather, or any other random factors) that cause wounds on your army rather than the enemy detracts a bit from the game (according to them, though I kind of agree).

If we could drop these random effects and still be fully "legal" under the rules of 8th, it would go a long way to help me bring them round to switching. If we have to make a list of house rules right from the start, it sort of brings up the question: Why switch?


K.

xxRavenxx
12-10-2010, 07:10
I don't know what you want people to tell you really.

It WOULD be a house rule. I don't see why you have an issue with it being that though.



Also, you should give it a try. We thought it was "crazy terrain" at first too, but after a dozen games, we're just used to it. A lot of interesting things happen due to a unit having to walk round something, or being zapped by the portal, and not wanting to do the charge we expected from it for the turn.

kurisawa
12-10-2010, 07:28
I don't know what you want people to tell you really.

It WOULD be a house rule. I don't see why you have an issue with it being that though.



Also, you should give it a try. We thought it was "crazy terrain" at first too, but after a dozen games, we're just used to it. A lot of interesting things happen due to a unit having to walk round something, or being zapped by the portal, and not wanting to do the charge we expected from it for the turn.

*sigh*

You're singing to the choir mate. I want to try 8th. The books costs a lot, shipping all the way to Japan. I need to give my group a strong argument to spend the money. Help me!

K.

static grass
12-10-2010, 07:41
I am also getting used to the new terrain rules - they are little fustrating the first time you get caught out but actually the randomness they add is quite fun.

xalfej
12-10-2010, 08:17
They are a pain to keep track off when you start getting multiple pieces of random terrain. You also need to get/make a pretty wide variety of terrain or counts as terrain for it.. or just use Tupperware that's been turned upside down.

Give them a try, make little post it notes to keep track of things.

~xalfej

Chris_
12-10-2010, 09:56
Hm... Some guy made a cheat sheet for them which I will use as soon as I can find it again... A card for each kind of terrain with all the different variants on them.

And it is still legal to do terrain without the magical effects, pg. 142 "The Battlefield":


... choosing the pieces from your terrain collection (selecting which of the rules on pages 116-131 you will use to represent each piece).

This I take to mean that you can select normal hills, forests, rivers, buildings and so on as there are rules for those on the pages in the quote. They still follow the general rules for the respective terrain though.

theorox
12-10-2010, 10:14
If you want to play without the mysterious effects, do that. It pushes the game out of balance a bit and makes terrain unsignificant though, so be vary.

Theo

freddieyu
12-10-2010, 11:04
*sigh*

You're singing to the choir mate. I want to try 8th. The books costs a lot, shipping all the way to Japan. I need to give my group a strong argument to spend the money. Help me!

K.

Aren't there GW stores in Japan?

And so far playing with the mysterious terrain has been OK.....although I truly believe wood elves should have the option of ignoring the bad effects from woods terrain....I mean cmon that's why they are called wood elves right?

RanaldLoec
12-10-2010, 12:26
Yeah in a recent game my woodelve waywatchers and waywatcher highborn deployed in a wood. I rolled on the table venom thicket meaning all models treat the wood as dangerous terrain.

So my elite best of the best supreme woodsmen lost three of there number to dangerous terrain, and my lord must of been the most clumsy elve ever born taking 2 wounds.

8th is a vast improvement on 8th and you don't have to use the magic terrain rules simples.

Chris_
12-10-2010, 13:00
Yeah in a recent game my woodelve waywatchers and waywatcher highborn deployed in a wood. I rolled on the table venom thicket meaning all models treat the wood as dangerous terrain.

So my elite best of the best supreme woodsmen lost three of there number to dangerous terrain, and my lord must of been the most clumsy elve ever born taking 2 wounds.

8th is a vast improvement on 8th and you don't have to use the magic terrain rules simples.To bad the Wood Elves don't have an army wide special rule that lets them ignore any dangerous terrain tests they might have to take in forests... Oh, that's right, they do! ;) Sorry man, was just to tempting, hope you don't take it personal :D

stripsteak
12-10-2010, 20:00
Hmm, I think you may have misuderstood the question. :eyebrows:

I'm not too worried about how to generate terrain for the tabletop. My group hates (among other things) that you roll random effects from the terrain - such as woods that eat you, and so on. It's like wacky special rules for one-off "fun" scenarios that we used to GM for each other.

(These got out of hand when we had deathworld jungles with dinosaurs jumping out everywhere and man-eating plants - culminating in one game my friend GM'd where a tyranid-infested spaceship crashed in the middle of the table and genestealers poured out and started infecting regiments from both sides! :eek:)

Terrain (or indeed weather, or any other random factors) that cause wounds on your army rather than the enemy detracts a bit from the game (according to them, though I kind of agree).

If we could drop these random effects and still be fully "legal" under the rules of 8th, it would go a long way to help me bring them round to switching. If we have to make a list of house rules right from the start, it sort of brings up the question: Why switch?


K.

didn't misunderstand the question. I pointed out the option for what you want to do; use a random amount of terrain from your collection. Do you have pieces of terrain for the odd forests, or special buildings, and other random effects? if not you don't have to use them.

Tae
12-10-2010, 20:06
To bad the Wood Elves don't have an army wide special rule that lets them ignore any dangerous terrain tests they might have to take in forests... Oh, that's right, they do! ;) Sorry man, was just to tempting, hope you don't take it personal :D

Indeed. As pointed out, they all have the Forest Strider special rule. However that only actually affects (for infantry) one out of the 5 magical 'dangerous' forest types - but they're still affected by the other 4.

Personally I would have preferred them to have said ignores dangerous terrain and any damage or special rules caused by forests - e.g. no being hit by Wild Woods or becoming stupid from Fungus Forests. But hey ho, maybe in the new book.

kurisawa
12-10-2010, 22:39
Hm... Some guy made a cheat sheet for them which I will use as soon as I can find it again... A card for each kind of terrain with all the different variants on them.
And it is still legal to do terrain without the magical effects, pg. 142 "The Battlefield":
This I take to mean that you can select normal hills, forests, rivers, buildings and so on as there are rules for those on the pages in the quote. They still follow the general rules for the respective terrain though.

Great! Thank you for answering the question!

To everyone; I assume there has been lots and lots of whining about the new rules, but you can leave the emotional baggage at the door: I'm not one of them! This was just a simple rules question. I don't need urging to "just try it" or justification or sympathy or a debate or anything else.

K.

Chris_
13-10-2010, 01:36
Indeed. As pointed out, they all have the Forest Strider special rule. However that only actually affects (for infantry) one out of the 5 magical 'dangerous' forest types - but they're still affected by the other 4.

Personally I would have preferred them to have said ignores dangerous terrain and any damage or special rules caused by forests - e.g. no being hit by Wild Woods or becoming stupid from Fungus Forests. But hey ho, maybe in the new book.Yeah, it sucks for Wood Elves. It was just so fun in this instance, he was complaining that he had to take dangerous terrain tests in that situation when he missed the special rule that they have :D