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eyescrossed
12-10-2010, 05:45
I'm thinking of starting Empire, and one of my gaming buddies collects Skaven.

I love Steam Tanks, and was thinking of using one, but...

Cracks Call and Skitter Leaping Brass Orb Warlocks...

Would it be viable to run one, or only none/2 of them?

Sorry for so little info... I've gotta go now.

Thanks :)

ftayl5
12-10-2010, 06:43
Against Skaven I don't know how useful it would be, I wouldn't worry too much about it getting destroyed but with steadfast on everything, I wonder how much damage it would do.

But you should get one anyway because it's cool. And against any other army you might face, it'll kick more ass.

eyescrossed
12-10-2010, 07:14
Against Skaven I don't know how useful it would be, I wouldn't worry too much about it getting destroyed but with steadfast on everything, I wonder how much damage it would do.
I'm worried about it getting destroyed because my friend specifically said (with a huge evil grin) that he'd field a Brass Orb Warlock and Skitterleap it next to my Tank if I use one.

Cracks Call doesn't help either. Or the Screaming Bell making it take Wounds with no Armour save.



But you should get one anyway because it's cool. And against any other army you might face, it'll kick more ass.
Yeah, but the problem is thast I mostly face Skaven.

ftayl5
12-10-2010, 09:33
Oh. Well maybe your 90 dollars (AU) and 300pts would be best spent elsewhere.

eyescrossed
12-10-2010, 10:50
Yeah, maybe.

So... 2 is a nono? It'd be better with other stuff?


Thanks.

bert n ernie
12-10-2010, 11:43
I dunno. Being a Skaven player on the other end of these things is not something I look forward to.
I guess this could be because I tend to take all comers lists, so I don't take the Brass Orb. However the Orb must hit, which it doesn't always do. I think it's close to 50/50. Crack's call has to be in range, and then if you survive or dispel the spell the seer is likely to die(if you are well positioned).
I actually would be more worried about a Doom Wheel getting close.
There are ways around it, and if your tank is in amongst the rest of your army it is very hard for the skaven to bring specific elements to bear on you.
If his only option is to place the warlock in front of the tank, then he could just be wasting a bunch of points. Plus, are you really going to let skitterleap go off?
All of these ways of hurting or killing the steam tank are reliant on at least three dice rolls, some of which you can have an effect over with dispel rolls or positioning.

EDIT: I think 2 would make it harder, but would subsequently change the entire meta-game between you where you're no longer playing warhammer, but 40k with all the tanks and big weapons floating around.

Korraz
12-10-2010, 12:03
It's simple...you kill the Warlock!

No really. You will never ever see the Brass Orb, unless that Skavenplayer really doesn't care about winning. That thing is suicidal and overpriced. And if your friend specifically says that he's gonna play an anti-list, then get some Hochland Rifles and shoot that Warlock in the face.

As for the Call...ban it. Not a problem. I doubt that the Skaven will go all in and try to Irresistable the Call, since that damn thing is extremely unreliable.
Just don't let it get off. With all your Extradice floating around, that shouldn't be a problem.

bluemage
12-10-2010, 13:20
I"m with Korraz. If your friend is going to tailor his list to fight your list. You're gonna want to do some tailoring yourself. Get some hochland rifles, and just shoot his warlocks and then kill his bsb. Also take 3 mortars and some hellstrom rockets.

Lord Solar Plexus
12-10-2010, 14:31
Ouch. Good luck to you, eyescrossed. While I realize on an intellectual level that this is anecdotal, my only opponent played Skaven and he trounced me with such contemptuous ease probably 20 games in a row that it makes me shudder to think about it even now. :cries:

russellmoo
12-10-2010, 14:55
The brass orb is very unreliable against a single target- as it scatters like a stone thrower- its best use is thrown at a large unit of Temple Guard-

If your friend really wanted to kill it- he would bring twin warp lightning cannons-

AussieSocks
12-10-2010, 15:26
1) Lore of Death the warlock (Caress of Laniph, Fate of Bjuna, Spirit Leech)

2) Dispel Skitterleap/ Crack's Call

3) Use Trickster's Shard/Feedback Scroll Shenanigans to kill off the Grey Seer

4) Curse of the Midnight Wind against anything else he uses in the entire skaven book should do it

5) Iceshard Blizzard the Warlock

6)Destroy Scroll Skitterleap/ Crack's Call

7) Take 2 Steam Tanks

8) Pha's Protection on the Steam Tank

9) Surround the Steam Tank with Models. Sounds harder than it is. Archer detachments infront, regiments to each side and you should be fine (Detachments can be 2.5" apart, need to be about 7.5" in front and simply be formed 3x3 or some such)

10)Net of Amyntok the Warlock into his unit

11) Cannon the Grey Seer :D (Ringing the Bell is an added bonus)

12) Final Transmutation/ Dwellers Bellow the Seer or Warlock's Unit

13)Lose the Steamtank on the 50% of the time Brass Orb works and the 66% of the time Crack's call works, provided you have done absolutely nothing to stop either one. If they don't work, he could very well lose the game because of it.

If you took a unit of 15 chaos knights and a high elf player said "I'll take two bolt throwers, which can shoot them" would you stop taking those knights?

Daniel36
12-10-2010, 15:30
And if your friend specifically says that he's gonna play an anti-list, then get some Hochland Rifles and shoot that Warlock in the face.


Hahaha, I can already see it happening...
I love graphic descriptions of things our plastic men "do"... Priceless!!

CaliforniaGamer
12-10-2010, 21:07
Empire has spectacular magic protection, lots of dispel dice, seal of destruction, casket of sorcery etc.

you should be fine with 1, avoid 2 tho.

eyescrossed
12-10-2010, 21:31
I dunno. Being a Skaven player on the other end of these things is not something I look forward to.
I guess this could be because I tend to take all comers lists, so I don't take the Brass Orb. However the Orb must hit, which it doesn't always do. I think it's close to 50/50. Crack's call has to be in range, and then if you survive or dispel the spell the seer is likely to die(if you are well positioned).
I actually would be more worried about a Doom Wheel getting close.
There are ways around it, and if your tank is in amongst the rest of your army it is very hard for the skaven to bring specific elements to bear on you.
If his only option is to place the warlock in front of the tank, then he could just be wasting a bunch of points. Plus, are you really going to let skitterleap go off?
All of these ways of hurting or killing the steam tank are reliant on at least three dice rolls, some of which you can have an effect over with dispel rolls or positioning.

EDIT: I think 2 would make it harder, but would subsequently change the entire meta-game between you where you're no longer playing warhammer, but 40k with all the tanks and big weapons floating around.
Thanks for the very, very detailed post. You've got some good points, and I agree... Unless he Irresistable Forced Cracks Call or Skitterleap, I can still Dispel it.

Yeah, if I decide I like them (well, I do but you know what I mean) then I'll only field one.



It's simple...you kill the Warlock!

No really. You will never ever see the Brass Orb, unless that Skavenplayer really doesn't care about winning. That thing is suicidal and overpriced. And if your friend specifically says that he's gonna play an anti-list, then get some Hochland Rifles and shoot that Warlock in the face.

As for the Call...ban it. Not a problem. I doubt that the Skaven will go all in and try to Irresistable the Call, since that damn thing is extremely unreliable.
Just don't let it get off. With all your Extradice floating around, that shouldn't be a problem.
Heh, good point... BANG!

I won't go to the lengths of banning it, but I'll have to be wary of it.



I"m with Korraz. If your friend is going to tailor his list to fight your list. You're gonna want to do some tailoring yourself. Get some hochland rifles, and just shoot his warlocks and then kill his bsb. Also take 3 mortars and some hellstrom rockets.
Heh, yeah.



Ouch. Good luck to you, eyescrossed. While I realize on an intellectual level that this is anecdotal, my only opponent played Skaven and he trounced me with such contemptuous ease probably 20 games in a row that it makes me shudder to think about it even now. :cries:
Damn :( that's brutal



The brass orb is very unreliable against a single target- as it scatters like a stone thrower- its best use is thrown at a large unit of Temple Guard-

If your friend really wanted to kill it- he would bring twin warp lightning cannons-
Yeah, I guess.



1) Lore of Death the warlock (Caress of Laniph, Fate of Bjuna, Spirit Leech)

2) Dispel Skitterleap/ Crack's Call

3) Use Trickster's Shard/Feedback Scroll Shenanigans to kill off the Grey Seer

4) Curse of the Midnight Wind against anything else he uses in the entire skaven book should do it

5) Iceshard Blizzard the Warlock

6)Destroy Scroll Skitterleap/ Crack's Call

7) Take 2 Steam Tanks

8) Pha's Protection on the Steam Tank

9) Surround the Steam Tank with Models. Sounds harder than it is. Archer detachments infront, regiments to each side and you should be fine (Detachments can be 2.5" apart, need to be about 7.5" in front and simply be formed 3x3 or some such)

10)Net of Amyntok the Warlock into his unit

11) Cannon the Grey Seer :D (Ringing the Bell is an added bonus)

12) Final Transmutation/ Dwellers Bellow the Seer or Warlock's Unit

13)Lose the Steamtank on the 50% of the time Brass Orb works and the 66% of the time Crack's call works, provided you have done absolutely nothing to stop either one. If they don't work, he could very well lose the game because of it.

If you took a unit of 15 chaos knights and a high elf player said "I'll take two bolt throwers, which can shoot them" would you stop taking those knights?
Wow. You've changed my mind single-handedly. Thanks :)



Hahaha, I can already see it happening...
I love graphic descriptions of things our plastic men "do"... Priceless!!
Me too :evilgrin:



Empire has spectacular magic protection, lots of dispel dice, seal of destruction, casket of sorcery etc.

you should be fine with 1, avoid 2 tho.
Heh, yeah.


Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Fall from grace
12-10-2010, 23:07
Only spells with a given strength can damage Steam Tanks - all other spell effects are ignored.

Still screwed with the Orb though.

Kiras of the flame
13-10-2010, 00:21
If your opponent plans to make a list just to kill one thing... surely he's missing some eggs in that basket...

just because someone says he'll have something to kill my high elf prince on a dragon doesn't mean I don't field the dragon... Besides, he's still has to contend with the Mortars, Helstorm Rockets.... magic... ect. ect.....

Unless the steam tank is your ace-in-the-hole unit, try to screw him around with distraction units like Pistoliers and the such... actually he should be worried more about the Mortar...

eyescrossed
13-10-2010, 05:34
Only spells with a given strength can damage Steam Tanks - all other spell effects are ignored.

Still screwed with the Orb though.
Read the Empire FAQ...



If your opponent plans to make a list just to kill one thing... surely he's missing some eggs in that basket...

just because someone says he'll have something to kill my high elf prince on a dragon doesn't mean I don't field the dragon... Besides, he's still has to contend with the Mortars, Helstorm Rockets.... magic... ect. ect.....

Unless the steam tank is your ace-in-the-hole unit, try to screw him around with distraction units like Pistoliers and the such... actually he should be worried more about the Mortar...
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It leads to a less enjoyable game on both sides since I just suffered Shiny New Model Syndrome and he's most likely losing badly.

That's a good point.

Haha, yeah.

Also, *Mortars ;)

Korraz
13-10-2010, 09:36
With "ban" I meant dispell. Translation fail there, "banning" is dispelling in german. *caugh*
I'm sorry.

eyescrossed
13-10-2010, 10:40
Oh, I see!

No need for an apology - it was just a misunderstanding :)