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View Full Version : The Ultramarines Movie is not the first 40k movie



LexxBomb
12-10-2010, 14:09
has everybody at GW forgotten "Inquisitor"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6l1AlK5JZ0
sorry for the non english subs

on http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13400002a
Abnett says the new movie is the first...lets rewrite history shall we.

Aiwass
12-10-2010, 14:20
And Damnatus (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Damnatus)!

Sadistikk
12-10-2010, 14:22
I hardly call this 30min pos a movie

Fan made.......meh both are garbage and could hardly be considered movies or film

LexxBomb
12-10-2010, 14:23
yer except that damnatus was not official...Inquisitor was actually made by GW and released on video tape.

at the above comment... sure its not a feature length film (90 mins) or an epic (3 hrs) but it was still an official film.

Aiwass
12-10-2010, 14:28
I can't find in this thread the spot about "only official" GW films.

EDIT: To OP, that's because Abnett is a ******* megalomaniac, and the GW's CEOs are all about "we're great, so cool". In short: marketing crap.

Sadistikk
12-10-2010, 14:29
Then at best it can be considered a pilot episode at best.....

eldargal
12-10-2010, 14:32
Inquisitor was a short film created as an attempted film pitch for the 25th anniversay or GW (I think?), it barely warrants status as an episode let alone a feature film like Ultramarines.

LexxBomb
12-10-2010, 14:36
lol...
true sadistikk maybe it should be considered a pilot episode...heck if we are not being official then what about "Event Horizon" within 40k fandom it is considered to be a movie about the first warp drive ship humanity builds

Aiwass
12-10-2010, 14:38
Meh, Damnatus is specifically 40k and had full GW support when filmed.

LexxBomb
12-10-2010, 14:43
Inquisitor was a short film created as an attempted film pitch for the 25th anniversay or GW (I think?), it barely warrants status as an episode let alone a feature film like Ultramarines.

the ultramarine movie cannot even be described as a feature length film as it is only 70 mins long...

eldargal
12-10-2010, 14:46
Anything above an hour is usually considered feature length.

LonelyPath
12-10-2010, 14:56
The first 40k "Movie" was at GD 1990 here in the UK and was entitle Deathwing. It was 8 minutes long, lol.

Hendarion
12-10-2010, 15:02
Meh, Damnatus is specifically 40k and had full GW support when filmed.
It never had full GW support. GW even had to shut the project down with a lawsuit in order to prevent further illegal usage of the intellectual property.
What makes you think Damnatus ever had GW support at all?

LexxBomb
12-10-2010, 15:05
because GW Germany helped with props and actors...

Cuchulain84
12-10-2010, 15:16
There were other short films from that same era too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZBplpT3Iy4&feature=related

The first proper attempt at a feature film was BloodQuest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEY630UaMg&feature=related

Scalebug
12-10-2010, 15:19
Source? Because that sounds very unlikely.

Andm, yes, Inquisitor, and the attached clips or DeathWing Terminators vs Orks and Genestealers was not a real film, it was just a concept pitch to BBC that never got picked up.

Pacific
12-10-2010, 15:52
Wasn't that Deathwing video the one shown at Games Day in the early 90's?

Godzooky
12-10-2010, 15:55
But it's the only 40K movie attempt so far not to be confirmed as utter ****.

At the moment it can only be suspected to be utter ****. :shifty:

ADF
12-10-2010, 17:16
It never had full GW support. GW even had to shut the project down with a lawsuit in order to prevent further illegal usage of the intellectual property.
What makes you think Damnatus ever had GW support at all?

Yes it had full GW support, I can personally vouch for that! I knew some of the folks who made the film back then, and I've got some german WDs that include ADVERTS FOR THE BLOODY FILM right in front of me!

The problem was that german GW fully supported the film, but some problems with german Urheberrecht forced the UK legal branch to intervene and shut the project down despite having it endorsed before.

The original cease-and-desist letter and the following exchange between Huan Vû (leader of Damnatus and owner of Sphaerentor, a german GW rumour/news portal) can be found here (it's a german forum, but the letters are in english):

http://www.forenplanet.de/showthread.php?threadid=19568

Sorry if i overreacted a bit, but it riles me to no end when people who have obviously not seen the whole sorry mess unfold from the front seat chime in and voice their ill-informed opinion as if it was a fact.

ADF out...

bert n ernie
12-10-2010, 19:22
Anything above an hour is usually considered feature length.

Oddly enough it's less than that. It's 40mins. Just a longer credit sequence would have entitled them to that designation ;)

Bloodquest was a sad story. Again a mistake stopped it from coming about. However this time it was someone being greedy(not the filmmaker).
At the time GW didn't know what it cost to make a CG movie(few people outside the industry knew to be fair) and that's where it all fell down.

Rolf
12-10-2010, 21:17
I can't remember Inquisitor been released on tape?

-Loki-
13-10-2010, 00:45
The first proper attempt at a feature film was BloodQuest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpEY630UaMg&feature=related

Whats sad is, the space scenes in the Blood Quest trailer looked better than anything in the Ultramarines trailer. Though the bits with Marines and anything not in space looked like ass.

Aiwass
13-10-2010, 00:50
Almos everything looks better xD

slingersam
13-10-2010, 01:35
Its a shame they didnt continue it. As a BA's movie would have been epic and I would have loved it. Kinda biased though as I am a BA's player ;)

Lord Aaron
13-10-2010, 07:43
ya, that blood quest movie was sooo cool at the time (before dawn of war intro's) and is still as good/ better then the Ultramarine's shots i seen so far.but story? lol , blood quest has hands down the worst story of all time. here, have this artifact that's more important to us then our primarch, DONT! lose it ok?....the next day... um ya,.. i kinda lost that thing you gave me yesterday...... lol

bert n ernie
13-10-2010, 08:38
Yeah, but their crew was a proper film crew.
Not that I'm saying Ultramarine isn't proper, but the companies biggest claim to fame is bionicle. A lego movie, essentially.

eldargal
13-10-2010, 08:46
Damnatus had GW backing until the differing IP laws in Britain and Europe mean't that by letting the film be released they would effectively be saying their IP was public domain.


I think you must be blind or insane, and I'm not even interested in Ultramarines.


Whats sad is, the space scenes in the Blood Quest trailer looked better than anything in the Ultramarines trailer. Though the bits with Marines and anything not in space looked like ass.

Hendarion
13-10-2010, 10:03
There is no need to make IP public domain at all. A free license would have solved every issue. GW didn't give that out, so had to pull it back. That is not what I would call 'full GW support'.
There are books and games that use the IP without making it public domain. Same could have worked for Damnatus, but GW didn't want to. Maybe the movie was just too sloppy, who knows.

BigRob
13-10-2010, 10:31
TBH the best 40K stuff I am seeing when you go browsing the Tube and internet is the Final Liberation stuff...which sadly says alot for the quality of the rest of it :cries:

Brother Loki
13-10-2010, 10:40
I suspect that the real reason for the Damnatus issue was probably that because the film took something like 2-3 years longer to come out than originally planned, it was finished around the time that GW would have been in negotiations with Codex and/or other people over making an 'official' 40k movie (around 2-3 years ago). Kind of hard to charge people money for a licence when you've just let a bunch of other people have it for free.

scheppo
13-10-2010, 10:41
Actually there wouldn't have been any problems with IP-law. The makers could have granted GW a full right of use, so that GW could have controlled how and if the movie was distributed and marketed etc.

According to German IP-law the makers of Damnatus however DO have full copyrights regarding the movie regardless of GW liking it or not. But it is bounded by GWs higher-ranking copyrights, which entitled them to prohibit the release.

The actual issue was that agreeing to the release would have meant letting amateurs take controll over how the 40k-Universe is presented to an not yet involved audience who might not be able to distinguish between fanwork and official GW-Products. The problem was not loss of IP but depreciation of IP.

ADF
13-10-2010, 11:42
There is no need to make IP public domain at all. A free license would have solved every issue. GW didn't give that out, so had to pull it back. That is not what I would call 'full GW support'.
There are books and games that use the IP without making it public domain. Same could have worked for Damnatus, but GW didn't want to. Maybe the movie was just too sloppy, who knows.

We know! A whole forum full of people that put years upon years of hard and expensive work into this know. I've linked you to the whole story on page one. Please go and read especially the letters from GW. And please stop claiming that there is no clear reason why they stopped the film; again, you can read the letters. You are entitled to have a opinion, but you don't have the right to propagate OUTRIGHT LIES.


I suspect that the real reason for the Damnatus issue was probably that because the film took something like 2-3 years longer to come out than originally planned, it was finished around the time that GW would have been in negotiations with Codex and/or other people over making an 'official' 40k movie (around 2-3 years ago). Kind of hard to charge people money for a licence when you've just let a bunch of other people have it for free.

That may have played a major role in their decisionmaking.


Actually there wouldn't have been any problems with IP-law. The makers could have granted GW a full right of use, so that GW could have controlled how and if the movie was distributed and marketed etc.

According to German IP-law the makers of Damnatus however DO have full copyrights regarding the movie regardless of GW liking it or not. But it is bounded by GWs higher-ranking copyrights, which entitled them to prohibit the release.

The actual issue was that agreeing to the release would have meant letting amateurs take controll over how the 40k-Universe is presented to an not yet involved audience who might not be able to distinguish between fanwork and official GW-Products. The problem was not loss of IP but depreciation of IP.

That's the reason; he's spot on to the real problem. This is a good summary for everyone who does not want to invest the time to read through the letters, altough I strongly recommend that for the sake of further discussion.

Finally, I want to keep this discussion civil if I can, but it hurts me that people make claims about the Damnatus project that can easily be proven wrong, but will nevertheless being swallowed by those with only a passing interes in the subject. Damnatus remains, even to this day, a emotionally charged project for many memebers of the german community, and its prohibition has driven many hardcore veterans that invested thousands of euros into the project and into warhammer in general away forever.

Again, to clarify the IP law issue in laymans terms: Under german IP law (Urheberrecht), the creator of a werk (= piece of art, film, book, etc) has the Urheberrecht (~copyright) and is NEITHER able NOR allowed to sell it or give it up. He has simply NO WAY to get rid of his Urheberrecht. What he can do is to give out a full license to copy, distribute and sell his werk. Aftef expiration of the license, the rights go back to the creator; there are even ways for the creator to stop the licensee from executing some actions; for example not releasing the werk at all. In conclusion, as Damnatus was a german production, a group of people under a certain Rechtsform (= being a company in the legal sense) would have had the Urheberrecht of Damnatus; they could not possibly sell it to GW, only allow them to use their film without restriction, but they would retain certain juristic possibilities,e.g to force GW to release the film, or to recall the license entirely. As this would indirectly allow people from outside GW to dictate GWs commercial behaviour and IP, they opted to shut down the project to guard the juristic integrity of their IP portfolio.

ADF out

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 11:57
they have my sympathies and it is one of my fervent wishes that their hard work and stress will eventually be rewarded...I hope GW eventually allow it to be released.

I guess one solution could be for GW to hold a film making competition in the spirit of Golden Demon and release for limited sales a DVD with the best chosen by the company... Heck GW could even set up an internal company selling props (like Forge World used to do).

you could imagine people sending in CG and stop motion movies made at home... It would be a whole new marketplace for GW to enter... and it could all be under the banner of fan made (much like early Inferno)

Hendarion
13-10-2010, 12:23
Again, to clarify the IP law issue in laymans terms: Under german IP law (Urheberrecht), the creator of a werk (= piece of art, film, book, etc) has the Urheberrecht (~copyright) and is NEITHER able NOR allowed to sell it or give it up. He has simply NO WAY to get rid of his Urheberrecht. What he can do is to give out a full license to copy, distribute and sell his werk. Aftef expiration of the license, the rights go back to the creator; there are even ways for the creator to stop the licensee from executing some actions; for example not releasing the werk at all. In conclusion, as Damnatus was a german production, a group of people under a certain Rechtsform (= being a company in the legal sense) would have had the Urheberrecht of Damnatus; they could not possibly sell it to GW, only allow them to use their film without restriction, but they would retain certain juristic possibilities,e.g to force GW to release the film, or to recall the license entirely. As this would indirectly allow people from outside GW to dictate GWs commercial behaviour and IP, they opted to shut down the project to guard the juristic integrity of their IP portfolio.

ADF out
Well, that is a problem of German laws which always and entirely had been known to GW-Germany in the first place. But whatever, so the problem is neither the IP of GW, but the typical problem of Urheberrecht vs. Nutzungsrecht. That still could have been solved by creating and transferring the 'company' which has produced Damnatus to GW or with the right contracts - which obviously do work, else there would be the same problem all over the world with German inventions. A too huge act though to save something which had questionable quality (no matter how offensive this might sound - but for example the Inquisitor movie had been bad like a soap-opera and I think of Damnatus to be in a similar class).

Godzooky
13-10-2010, 12:28
Setting aside IP issues. Based on what I've seen of Damnatus I'm very glad it never came to become a recognised 40K film. It just looks like a bunch of LARPERS sauntering around a ruined abbey and grimacing while the smoke machine overloads.

Their vision of 40K? Not in my name !!! ;)

ADF
13-10-2010, 12:52
Well, that is a problem of German laws which always and entirely had been known to GW-Germany in the first place. But whatever, so the problem is neither the IP of GW, but the typical problem of Urheberrecht vs. Nutzungsrecht. That still could have been solved by creating and transferring the 'company' which has produced Damnatus to GW or with the right contracts - which obviously do work, else there would be the same problem all over the world with German inventions. A too huge act though to save something which had questionable quality (no matter how offensive this might sound - but for example the Inquisitor movie had been bad like a soap-opera and I think of Damnatus to be in a similar class).

Of course the movie was utter tripe... I don't know when you started playing, but there was a time when exactly this whole over-the-top, trash-metal psychedelic trip thing was 40ks defining characteristic... sadly thats the past, and 40k as a brand takes itself way to serious now. You have to remember that this was before DoW and all that, there was simply no point of reference to how a 40k film should look.

Concerning the legal mess, a major part of the problem was that GW germany knew about the problems, but did only mention them at about 4 years into the project (afaik the film was basically finished when the problems reared their head).

Hendarion
13-10-2010, 13:14
I actually like the seriousness instead of that messy cyber-punk we had in Rogue Trader. DoW is much more what I think of 40k than a movie that depends only on talks and discussions all the time, big empty rooms without details and protagonists who play like the fake-daily-court-shows (dunno if you got them, but if not, then think of "XXXX's next Top-Model").

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 13:24
personally 2nd ed was the definitive 40k

ADF
13-10-2010, 13:26
Rest assured, we've got more than enough of these shows...
Can we at least agree that it was neither prudent nor nice to let the fans work for several years before shutting them down because of a problem that is widely known in legal circles, regardless of the real or perceived quality of their work?


personally 2nd ed was the definitive 40k
This. Back when Orks (and Chaos to an extent) were funny, Space Marines were over the top, and Gav and Jervis would face off in silly battles where Plague Marines on fire would fall into Ork sewer pits, to much enjoyment of everyone involved. No amount of Blood Angel Bloodfists of bloody bloodening beating the Skull-festooned Skulltaker on his Skull-Horse of Grimdark is gonna blood-beat that.

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 13:32
as well as being incredibly; arrogant, insulting and hurtful to those involved it has to have been a bad business decision... how many people have left the hobby because of it or have lowered the amount of products we buy.

At the very least they deserve an apology.

ADF
13-10-2010, 13:42
I know several people in the big spender category that left the hobby alltogether because of this; people that would churn out several thousand euros per annum for GW. People that were pillars of support in the german scene, that maintained websites that catered for hundreds of new gamers per year. People that invested several hundred euros in both money and time into Damnatus, without expecting a reward other than to see their work released. A person that shall not be named here was so upset he sold his ~15000pts in GW products and started to promote a competitors game, basically single-handedly creating a several-hundred people strong community via demos and promotions. What hurt GW the most is that they alienated the hardcore fans, people that would, before this affair, go out on a limb to promote GW and bring fresh blood into the hobby. Sphärentor was almost some kind of german Warseer, but even more active outside the net. They hosted conventions, aided the german GT, held fanwork awards and did an overall great job to promote GW products both to veterans and newbies, but after this drama, there was a visible drain on the contributing members, as they felt betrayed, ignored, and ultimately used by what they now saw as a facless, heartless corporation instead of the friendly association of gamers they believed in before.

Bad business decision allright...

If they had let them release their (mediocre) fan flic, it would have created a little buzz in the community and would have faded into obscurity in the next two or three years.

Instead, they have made enemies in the german community that, even to this day, remember the whole thing as an insult to them both as persons and as hobbyists.

Godzooky
13-10-2010, 13:46
as well as being incredibly; arrogant, insulting and hurtful to those involved it has to have been a bad business decision... how many people have left the hobby because of it or have lowered the amount of products we buy.

At the very least they deserve an apology.

Honestly, it was a pretty silly decision to put so much effort and cash into a project which, to most people, would look like a fool's errand from the start, perceived local approval or not.

Why didn't they just make a sci-fi film set in their own universe and avoid all this silly IP red tape? They could have taken visual elements they liked from 40K without directly infringing. Their film would have been releasable and they may have even gotten some kudos points for originality.

And do you really think people have left the hobby because this film didn't get embraced by GW top brass? Jeez, I'd be more likely to jack it all in if they did rubber stamp it...

Friar Tuck cameos in it, FFS!

ADF
13-10-2010, 13:55
Honestly, it was a pretty silly decision to put so much effort and cash into a project which, to most people, would look like a fool's errand from the start, perceived local approval or not.

Why didn't they just make a sci-fi film set in their own universe and avoid all this silly IP red tape? They could have taken visual elements they liked from 40K without directly infringing. Their film would have been releasable and they may have even gotten some kudos points for originality.

And do you really think people have left the hobby because this film didn't get embraced by GW top brass? Jeez, I'd be more likely to jack it all in if they did rubber stamp it...

Friar Tuck cameos in it, FFS!

First, keep it civil, no need to get all trollish around these parts.

They put money and time in because they wanted to create something set in the 40k universe, and tell a 40k story. It's incredibly insulting to attack them because they wanted to do smoething with their hobby, instead of a nondescript, generic sci-fi flic.

Yes, people have left because of this. Determined people. Wonderful people. Influential people that were widely recognised in the scene. It was sort of a wakeup call for the german scene, a sign that "For gamers by gamers" was a thing of the past or did never really exist, and it came at a time when GW was beginning to lose customers because of their increasingly indifferent behaviour towards long-time customers. This move was for many a veteran the straw that broke the camels back.

Godzooky
13-10-2010, 14:02
First, keep it civil, no need to get all trollish around these parts.

They put money and time in because they wanted to create something set in the 40k universe, and tell a 40k story. It's incredibly insulting to attack them because they wanted to do smoething with their hobby, instead of a nondescript, generic sci-fi flic.

Yes, people have left because of this. Determined people. Wonderful people. Influential people that were widely recognised in the scene. It was sort of a wakeup call for the german scene, a sign that "For gamers by gamers" was a thing of the past or did never really exist, and it came at a time when GW was beginning to lose customers because of their increasingly indifferent behaviour towards long-time customers. This move was for many a veteran the straw that broke the camels back.

Yes, I'm sorry about my tone, reading it back. It's just very drafty under my bridge at this time of year and I'm cranky. :shifty:

But I maintain my stance that this particular piece of work, despite the obvious regard from a good number of people, wouldn't have served to best represent the 40K universe to the uninitiated and it is for the greater good that it didn't come to fruition.

ADF
13-10-2010, 14:12
Yes, I'm sorry about my tone, reading it back. It's just very drafty under my bridge at this time of year and I'm cranky. :shifty:

But I maintain my stance that this particular piece of work, despite the obvious regard from a good number of people, wouldn't have served to best represent the 40K universe to the uninitiated and it is for the greater good that it didn't come to fruition.

No need to apologize, 'tis the internet after all, and people often forget that a written message may sound vastly different on the receiving end of the tubes.

May I ask you two things:
What country are you from?
When did you first enter the "GW hobby"?

I don't want to pull seniority or all that, but there is a huge shift in GWs attitude towards both their games and their customers around about the year 2004 or 2005; if you've not seen the stuff they did before firsthand, you could not possibly understand the magnitude of the changes.

It remains questionable if the cancellation of the project was for the greater good, but it did definetly help to separate the 40k brand from its wacky roots, furthering the new, grimdark, more serious image they cemented with 4th edition.

However, for german gamers, it was the last in a long line of questionable decisions that beroke promises and alienated the "old guard".
If you are interested, i can enumerate them.

Cheerio, and don't let discussions on the internet get you down ;)

Hendarion
13-10-2010, 14:15
Oh c'mon, you sound as if nobody in Germany would be playing 40k anymore. eBay and my local gaming store tell me different things.

Godzooky
13-10-2010, 14:16
May I ask you two things:
What country are you from?
When did you first enter the "GW hobby"?

I'm from the UK. I'm 32 now and I guess I was about 10 or 11 when I got my first Citadel mini. Thanks for making me admit that. :D

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 14:39
But I maintain my stance that this particular piece of work, despite the obvious regard from a good number of people, wouldn't have served to best represent the 40K universe to the uninitiated and it is for the greater good that it didn't come to fruition.

what and the game "Firewarrior" was better:confused: a game that had the one mission of introducing new audiences to GW products... and I know there were many games before it (heck I owned many of them).

What would you suggest? I would love to see 40k the Musical (just imagine what Sir Rice and Sir Webber could do - heck they made a soccer musical)

@ ADF not sure if you were calling me a Troll... I was the OP but I said 2nd Ed was the definitive version because its imagery is what resonates with me... both in the way the company interacted with the fan base and with the artistry it self... I guess its impressionism vs realism/modernity

ADF
13-10-2010, 14:47
@ ADF not sure if you were calling me a Troll... I was the OP but I said 2nd Ed was the definitive version because its imagery is what resonates with me... both in the way the company interacted with the fan base and with the artistry it self... I guess its impressionism vs realism/modernity

Oh man, sorry, don't know how this came about, must have clicked multiquote, my snide comment was aimed at Godzooky, not at you. Sorry, I have removed the wrong quote, as I completely agree with you (see page 2 of this thread)


Oh c'mon, you sound as if nobody in Germany would be playing 40k anymore. eBay and my local gaming store tell me different things.

No, there is an active scene in germany, no use in denying that. But some people that were active back then are now sorely missed, but that may be because of regional differences in germany itself, an active supporter is much more important for rural areas than for bigger cities.


I'm from the UK. I'm 32 now and I guess I was about 10 or 11 when I got my first Citadel mini. Thanks for making me admit that. :D

Then you'll know what we're talking about; things took definetly a turn for the worse regarding support for veterans; axing specialist games and lowering the quality of WD to an unbearable level;the german team was thinly stretched to begin with, as they had to translate the armybooks and the WDs, but things started to get better, thanks to contributions from "Team Deutschland" and the hard work of the german studio, and then bam, GW axes all regional content...

Godzooky
13-10-2010, 14:48
what and the game "Firewarrior" was better:confused: a game that had the one mission of introducing new audiences to GW products... and I know there were many games before it (heck I owned many of them).

What would you suggest? I would love to see 40k the Musical (just imagine what Sir Rice and Sir Webber could do - heck they made a soccer musical)

@ ADF not sure if you were calling me a Troll... I was the OP but I said 2nd Ed was the definitive version because its imagery is what resonates with me... both in the way the company interacted with the fan base and with the artistry it self... I guess its impressionism vs realism/modernity

I think I was the only intended recipient of the troll comment. I've since renounced my trollish ways in an attempt to build bridges rather than live under them.

Your apparent regard of musical theatre is your own issue, bud. :p

On the subject of Andrew Lloyd Webber, I once served him when I worked in Burger King. He came in and said, "Give me two Whoppers."

I replied, "OK, you're good looking and your musicals are great."

Computer games are a different kettle of fish. I never played Firewarrior, but it visually appealed to me more than Damnatus. I love Dawn of War, to be honest. The soundtrack alone conveys the bleak feeling of the 40K universe that fires my imagination in this hobby.

Bloodknight
13-10-2010, 14:52
I never played Firewarrior, but it visually appealed to me more than Damnatus.

It's a pretty awful Halo 1 clone (i.e. a clone of a pretty boring game ;)) and was already way behind the times (gameplay and graphics) when it was released.

Have you watched Damnatus? I'd say it should be watched as what it is - a fan film - and then it blows a lot of fan films for other franchises out of the water. It's not a millions-of-dollars-production.

And if nothing else, it's a feature length movie about a tabletop universe. How many of those are there except for Mutant Chronicles?

Pacific
13-10-2010, 15:31
I know several people in the big spender category that left the hobby alltogether because of this; people that would churn out several thousand euros per annum for GW. People that were pillars of support in the german scene, that maintained websites that catered for hundreds of new gamers per year. People that invested several hundred euros in both money and time into Damnatus, without expecting a reward other than to see their work released. A person that shall not be named here was so upset he sold his ~15000pts in GW products and started to promote a competitors game, basically single-handedly creating a several-hundred people strong community via demos and promotions. What hurt GW the most is that they alienated the hardcore fans, people that would, before this affair, go out on a limb to promote GW and bring fresh blood into the hobby. Sphärentor was almost some kind of german Warseer, but even more active outside the net. They hosted conventions, aided the german GT, held fanwork awards and did an overall great job to promote GW products both to veterans and newbies, but after this drama, there was a visible drain on the contributing members, as they felt betrayed, ignored, and ultimately used by what they now saw as a facless, heartless corporation instead of the friendly association of gamers they believed in before.

Bad business decision allright...

If they had let them release their (mediocre) fan flic, it would have created a little buzz in the community and would have faded into obscurity in the next two or three years.

Instead, they have made enemies in the german community that, even to this day, remember the whole thing as an insult to them both as persons and as hobbyists.

Thanks for writing that, it was very interesting.

I certainly agree that the company and the hobby in general has changed, and comments such as this are echoed around the net and at gaming tables and clubs around the world I should imagine.

One could certainly make an argument that it's necessary for the company to thrive, but that doesn't mean it makes the process an enjoyable one.....

Part of me wonders why someone didn't try and release the movie anyway.. really, what was the worst that could happen?

ADF
13-10-2010, 15:38
Thanks for writing that, it was very interesting.

I certainly agree that the company and the hobby in general has changed, and comments such as this are echoed around the net and at gaming tables and clubs around the world I should imagine.

One could certainly make an argument that it's necessary for the company to thrive, but that doesn't mean it makes the process an enjoyable one.....

Part of me wonders why someone didn't try and release the movie anyway.. really, what was the worst that could happen?

Well, the worst that could happen would be to be sued for mutiple IP breaches, as the movie uses many GW trademarks.

Nevertheless, the movie has found its way into the open, via filesharing and the like; however, according to the rules, this shall not be discussed here.

Korraz
13-10-2010, 15:53
There was first quite an uprising and then the film got leaked. The usual rattling, shouting and flaming. Then most of the people watched it. After that, nobody wants to talk about it any more. It was utterly horrible, as in "Makes your eyes bleed and claw yourself your eyes out"-horrible. Seriously. Fan movie or not. If it's a pile of junk, stop it. GW did a good job in shutting it down. Really, stuff THAT bad is bound to gave your game a bad name. It's a dark chapter that should remain closed forever.

I can't think of a single guy that stopped playing the game because of this...thing. Anybody that believed that GW is a "friendly association of gamers" clearly missed the last fifty years or so.

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 15:59
Well, the worst that could happen would be to be sued for mutiple IP breaches, as the movie uses many GW trademarks.

Nevertheless, the movie has found its way into the open, via filesharing and the like; however, according to the rules, this shall not be discussed here.

ROFLMAO
and look what it did for Blizzard when they were sued over Starcraft and possibly Warcraft... From memory GW and Blizzard settled out of court and had a non disclosure/ discussion agreement put in place... hence why you wont find it online... Just after that GW drastically changed every model in the Tyranid range and practically got rid of the Magos and hybrids.

here is a thought for you... GW now tells us that the worlds they create are settings for us to explore be through gaming or role playing...they are not telling a story - we are to make the stories... does that not lend itself to amateur writers writing short stories or amateur film makers making fan flics... just look at Red vs Blue for Halo (good business move Microsoft in allowing it)

in regard to the company changing... even in Australia I am sure we lost out own White Dwarf production... ours is the British mixed with the Yanks with maybe an article twice a year from Australia) we even lost out Games Day.

ADF
13-10-2010, 16:03
It's okay, we don't need to have the whole discussion again.

Damnatus was a fan film and in no way official.
Some people liked it, some not.
GW did shut it down, for better or worse.
Some people like that, others didn't.
Thats all there really is, and anectodical evidence from one side or the other won't convince anyone.

After all, it's about toy soldiers, and as countless debates about 2nd edition, 3rd edition, tourney players vs. fluff players and so on have shown, it's all a matter of taste anyway.

As long as you can play the game the way you like with people you like and it's fun for you, everything is allright.

Edit: Arggr; again it looks like I was contradicting LexxBomb. I don't want to. The whole IP thing was a mess, and a fan project does not have the financial or legal power of blizzard... As they say in germany Recht haben heißt nicht Recht bekommen. I too mourn the loss of regional WD content, but it is a thing of the past. And as to "exploring their settings through gaming and roleplaying", thats fundamentally different than creating a potentially commercial adaptation of their setting (book or film) without their explicit consent.

Good evening, gentlemen.

LexxBomb
13-10-2010, 16:14
I don't think you were contradicting me...I only used the Blizzard case as illustration point in a joking manner... my comment wasn't aimed at you...I was trying to laugh with you.

oh have a good rest and pleasant dreams.

eldargal
13-10-2010, 17:04
GW never sued Blizzard, or if they did, no one has been able to produce court records which would exist even if it was settled out of court with an NDA.


ROFLMAO
and look what it did for Blizzard when they were sued over Starcraft and possibly Warcraft... From memory GW and Blizzard settled out of court and had a non disclosure/ discussion agreement put in place... hence why you wont find it online... Just after that GW drastically changed every model in the Tyranid range and practically got rid of the Magos and hybrids.

here is a thought for you... GW now tells us that the worlds they create are settings for us to explore be through gaming or role playing...they are not telling a story - we are to make the stories... does that not lend itself to amateur writers writing short stories or amateur film makers making fan flics... just look at Red vs Blue for Halo (good business move Microsoft in allowing it)

in regard to the company changing... even in Australia I am sure we lost out own White Dwarf production... ours is the British mixed with the Yanks with maybe an article twice a year from Australia) we even lost out Games Day.

Valharik
13-10-2010, 20:07
Looking at the result I sincerely hope it will be the last.

Tak
15-10-2010, 07:35
I hardly call this 30min pos a movie

Fan made.......meh both are garbage and could hardly be considered movies or film

I don't understand why everyone is saying that Inquisitor is 'garbage'. I think that it's an INCREDIBLE piece of filmaking. Me and my mates had a night at mine the other week. We had our girlfriends there and everything. The plan of action was that we were all going to sit down an watch Avatar on my HOOJ TV, but after a bit of a drama and a fair share of tut's and aggro, I persuaded everyone that I had a better film for us to enjoy.

Later that evening when everyone had arrived and got comfortable, I pressed play on the machine and Inquisitor graced my screen with it's celluloid genius.

I must say that I was rather proud of myself because, after the film had finished, my guests were, to say the least, speechless! It was clear to see that they were absolutely stunned at the magnificence that is Inquisitor!:cool:

Five minutes later, after everybody had left, I even watched it a second time that night. Not even my girlfriend dumping me the day after (for some unspecified reason) could put a dampener on that tremendous night!

It may have been TOO good as I fear that all of my mates are worried as to how they are going to compete with a night such as mine when it's their turn because I haven't heard from any of them since but I will, just give them time.

But anyway, Inquisitor ROCKS wassamatter with you all? Name ONE thing that's wrong with it, I DARE YER!

Hendarion
15-10-2010, 07:57
No, Inquisitor doesn't rock. If you see such in a theater, played live, then it will be nice. But as a movie it's created without love to any detail, technically bad and actually without any environment at all. Not to mention the actors don't thrill anybody... "Stay vigilant"

LexxBomb
15-10-2010, 08:20
no detail... check out the correct usage of a Dark Angel Captain colours... the shoulder pad went into quite some detail that we don't see anymore.

DA Captains are meant to be white. not green. it goes back to the end of rogue trader and into 2nd ed

Hendarion
15-10-2010, 08:30
Ah yea. Now tell me how much Detail the planet's surface had, the interior of the space ship or the temple. Or what exactly did the Inquisitor move when opening/closing the 'gate' to the warp? Woops... all that had only been flat surfaces with no way to identify any of that. Too bad.

And btw, color-schemes have changed since Rogue-Trader. Be glad, else we would see much more tiger-striped and camouflage-Marines.

LexxBomb
15-10-2010, 08:38
honestly coming from a military family background I would rather see more camouflage....at least the scouts have some if they have the cape...

anyway having studied media at uni I can tell you that all the problems you addressed are post production issues... that detail is added in after filming in a multi-million dollar movie... and the acting was better than anything Stallone or Schwarzenegger have given us.

Hendarion
15-10-2010, 08:44
The acting is theater-like, not movie-like. There is a big difference that some actors seam never to realize and those ones then are released to the public in ugly daily-soaps.
Whatever, its up to personal interpretation. And I really did not like Inquisitor at all, because it lacked environmental detail, which does not require multiple million dollars, as there are enough movies from the 50s that have a huge amount of detail, or at least a painted matte in the background.

LexxBomb
15-10-2010, 08:49
I'll give you that about the matte paintings and atmospheric details

(its actually harder to preform on stage then in front of a camera, and is considered a higher form of acting)

Woodsman
15-10-2010, 11:01
(its actually harder to preform on stage then in front of a camera, and is considered a higher form of acting)

This. What my drama tutor would drum into us again and again.

Godzooky
15-10-2010, 11:02
I don't understand why everyone is saying that Inquisitor is 'garbage'. I think that it's an INCREDIBLE piece of filmaking. Me and my mates had a night at mine the other week. We had our girlfriends there and everything. The plan of action was that we were all going to sit down an watch Avatar on my HOOJ TV, but after a bit of a drama and a fair share of tut's and aggro, I persuaded everyone that I had a better film for us to enjoy.

Later that evening when everyone had arrived and got comfortable, I pressed play on the machine and Inquisitor graced my screen with it's celluloid genius.

I must say that I was rather proud of myself because, after the film had finished, my guests were, to say the least, speechless! It was clear to see that they were absolutely stunned at the magnificence that is Inquisitor!:cool:

Five minutes later, after everybody had left, I even watched it a second time that night. Not even my girlfriend dumping me the day after (for some unspecified reason) could put a dampener on that tremendous night!

It may have been TOO good as I fear that all of my mates are worried as to how they are going to compete with a night such as mine when it's their turn because I haven't heard from any of them since but I will, just give them time.

But anyway, Inquisitor ROCKS wassamatter with you all? Name ONE thing that's wrong with it, I DARE YER!

I sense a great disturbance in the Farce, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in irony, and were suddenly silenced.

Pacific
15-10-2010, 11:29
I sense a great disturbance in the Farce, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in irony, and were suddenly silenced.

Let it go, I actually thought that was pretty funny :)

Godzooky
15-10-2010, 11:36
Let it go, I actually thought that was pretty funny :)

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't having a pop. Merely pointing out humour that someone else seems to have missed.

My only criticism was the fact he cited Cameron's Avatar as the viewing experience he sacrificed in favour of Inquisitor. That's one of the few films that's actually worse than GW's aforementioned Jim-Hensonesque effort. :D

Cuchulain84
15-10-2010, 12:29
Inquisitor is pretty much in keeping with British tv productions of the time. We're talking 15 years ago remember. It's definitely not bad in anyway. In fact I think they did a great job with the costumes and sets, and the actors are decent (also note that acting in British tv/films is much more understated than in those of the US)

Not to mention it was essentially a 'pilot' so to expect the budget and production of a 2010 Hollywood blockbuster is at best naiive.

Hendarion
15-10-2010, 12:32
Nobody did expect a Hollywood-production, but a matte paint for the background would not be asked too much imo.

2ndCompanyVeterans
15-10-2010, 17:40
On an interesting side note I found a continuity flaw in the trailer, The marine comander has a service stud but it keeps swapping sides. Hard to focus after noticing it.

Borg451
19-12-2010, 16:27
I hardly call this 30min pos a movie

Fan made.......meh both are garbage and could hardly be considered movies or film

Er.. have you seen Ultramarines? It's ****..