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Lupercus
12-10-2010, 19:44
Hey there all. I've been thinking about the composition of my 2000 point Skaven army lately, and trying to figure out how many of each of the units I mentioned in the thread title I need or want. That is Hammer units, Anvil units, and Support units. Thus far, I've classified the following units into each of these groups(let me know if you have a different opinion on this, of course):

Anvil:
Clanrats
Skavenslaves

Hammer:
Stormvermin
Hell Pit Abomination
Plague Furnace with Plague Monks
Plague Monks
Rat Ogres

Support:
Weapon Teams
Gutter Runners
Warp Lightning Cannon
Doomwheel
Plagueclaw Catapult
Screaming Bell in a unit of Clanrats

So, with this in mind, in a 2000 point Skaven army, how many of each of these units would I likely want? Generally speaking, of course.

Lupercus

Kevlar
12-10-2010, 22:01
With the new terrain rules slaves aren't the greatest anvil even with 10 ranks. A river or forest in the middle of the table will really ruin their day.

Furnace or Bell are excellent anvils that never go away. Furnace being a nice hitty anvil.

Slaves work better on the flanks of the anvil to protect it. Tie up the big enemy hitters and then roast them with warp fire and warp lightning.

Hell pits really can be amazing and are worth every bit of negative press they get. Still, I usually field 1 hell pit, 1 cannon, and 1 doom wheel. All are excellent choices but two hell pits might thin out your prospective opponent pool.

Kirasu
12-10-2010, 22:30
Stormvermin are not hammers.. They are WS4, S4, A1.. maybe thats okay for a rat but no where near a hammer

The other can be hammers but rat ogres suffer from no armor or poor ranks.. Better to flank with plague monks since you can get almost 6 per rat ogre

scarvet
13-10-2010, 04:02
Agree Stormvermin aint hammer......they are better rats but nowhere near twice a rat that they cost.....

Rat Ogres are good providing you have gutter runners to take out warmachines.

ChrisIronBrow
13-10-2010, 04:54
With the new terrain rules slaves aren't the greatest anvil even with 10 ranks. A river or forest in the middle of the table will really ruin their day.


Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you move your slaves into a forest or a river? Without doing that, they are the best anvil in the entire game.

russellmoo
13-10-2010, 08:04
Instead of thinking hammer/anvil- think envelopment- the Skaven are not an ancient or medieval style army they are modern and modern tactics suit them much better- so try thinking in terms of attrition (aka grinding the enemy down) hit and run (doomwheels, gutter runners, PCB's) combined arms (weapons teams, WLC, Plague Claw Cat) with your hard hitters Plague monks, HPA, ROgres, Stormvermin- so think in terms of how best to combine your skaven to take down units-

You can- bring a bunch of warmachines, and some weapon teams and then let the enemy come to you- and finish him off with your hordes of cheap troops-

Or- Bring a ton of slaves/clanrats to occupy his main fighting force while you remove the flanks, then flank and rear charge the tough units (Rat ogres and Doomwheels are very good at this)-

Or- something in between the first step is deciding how aggressive you want to be- or if you want to play defensively.

scarvet
13-10-2010, 10:00
Attrition isn't modern at all.....even PAC is cutting on recruitment.....

PCB is no H&R either....they are solid line against flanking cavalry.

Hammer and Anvil isn't a bad way to organize and theories tactics as well army construction; combine arms is a way to get you hammer hitting the iron on the anvil.

As for rule of thumb.....I would say you should have atleast 60 rats for every 1000pts for core: i.e. 2*30 Clanrats for 1k, add 60(in whatever arrangement) Slave for 2k etc.

The only army should ever close the number of models you've got is infantry heavy Empire.

russellmoo
13-10-2010, 16:14
I should never post things that late at night-

Let's move this topic in a more useful direction- how about we ask for responses as to favorite combined unit tactics- because for the most part it takes two Skaven units to take down most other units outside of core choices- and even then it's still a good idea-

So- please list your favorite Skaven tactic?

I'll start- I love running a large block of slaves next to a doomwheel, or two- the slaves hit the front and the doomwheels can either crash into the sides, or hang around for one or two turns shooting lightning into the unit (just keep your general and BSB nearby as you are relying solely on steadfast)- this works really well against expensive and super hard enemy units- Chosen, Bloodthirsters, minotaurs, etc.

scarvet
13-10-2010, 16:58
Keeping throwing rats at them until they die, if a rat doesn't have a knife then he can use his claws.......while the Grey Seer commanding in the traditional position.