PDA

View Full Version : Sword Masters of Saphery Army 2500 pts.



Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
14-10-2010, 05:41
I just wanted to post this theme army that I'm contemplating on using in case I have to play a 2500 pts. game. ;)


Sword Masters Army of Saphery 2500 pts.

Lords:

Archmage: 360 pts.
4th Lvl. Mage (High Magic or Lore of Life)
Magic Items: Talisman of Preservation, Annulian Crystal, & Amulet of Light

Heroes:

Noble (BSB): 168 pts.
Equipment: Great weapon
Magic Items: Armor of Caledor & Guardian Phoenix

Mage: 190 pts.
Lvl. 2 Mage (Lore of Metal or Fire)
Magic Items: Silver Wand & Reaver Bow

Heroes Total: 358 pts.

Core:

Archer Regiment: 265 pts.
20 archers with full command armed with hand weapons, longbows, & light armor

Spearmen Regiment: 360 pts.
35 spearmen with full command armed with hand weapons, spears, & shields
Magic Banner: War Banner

Core Total: 625 pts.

Special:

Sword Masters of Hoeth Command Regiment: 340 pts.
20 Sword Masters with full command armed with hand weapons, heavy armor, & great weapons
Magic Banner: Banner of Eternal Flame

Sword Masters of Hoeth Detachment: 150 pts.
10 Sword Masters armed with hand weapons, heavy armor, & great weapons

Sword Masters of Hoeth Detachment: 150 pts.
10 Sword Masters armed with hand weapons, heavy armor, & great weapons

Ellyrian Reaver Cavalry: 217 pts.
Harbinger & 9 Reavers equipped hand weapons, light armor, spears, bows, & elven steeds

Special Total: 857 pts.

Rare:

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

2 Great Eagles

Rare Total: 300 pts.

Army Total: 2500 pts.

Does anyone think it's a balanced list to take on all comers? Is there any area for improvement? Advice and constructive crticism would be welcomed as long as you can keep it to theme of the army. Many thanks in advance. :D

oldschoolmonk
14-10-2010, 06:13
I Fail to see the purpose of the Reavers in said list, as you already have a reasonable missile fire-base and warmachine/mage hunters from the eagles. That nets you 217 Points.

At first thought I'd say change those detachments to 12 models for 6x2. (60 pts)
Secondly, I'd throw in another Swordmaster unit of 10 models, or start drastically changing how your swordmasters are divided::: For one, you only have 4 Banners.

I think seeing 3 regiments of 18 Swordmasters would look excellent on the table top and provides your mages and characters more places to hide. Give each unit a banner and as much command as you wish by dropping the Warbanner on the spearmen. Deployed 6x3 they look very formidable, and in the Breaking Point scenario you now have 8 break points, meaning you can lose your BSB and all the swordmaster units and continue to fight. All you lose is a unit of wayward Fast Cavalry.

Caelith
14-10-2010, 09:11
i agree, drop the fast cav as they are they are easy victory points for your opponent

Pulstar
14-10-2010, 13:19
I do like the idea of Fast Cav units deployed to protect the flanks from ambushers/scouts.

If the other army doesn't have any, then just vanguard them out to be a pain in the ass to the other guys flanks. At 95 points for 5 w/ bows they won't kill there points back, but they can tie up at least that many points for a few turns.

thesheriff
14-10-2010, 20:25
Drop the cavalry, there not worth it. Dragon princes are 6pts more, and far better.

You have 40 swordsmasters. i would split them down into rougky equal size units. Unist of 14, all with command, 1 with banner of sorcery.

The Lord I would give Forlaiths Robes, Talismain of Saphery, Silver wand. The 5 spells helps when you absolutly want certain life spells (usually thorne of vines, flesh to stone, dwellers, regrowth, earth blood). The other i would give seerstaff, with maybe shadow or fire (miasma/pit of shades or flaming sword/cage)

I think the core could be re-thought aswell. I like running 2 units of 25 spearmen with command, which is on the nose 500pts, which will save you some points for extra swordsmasters, wizrad upgrades and magic banners.

thesheriff

Eta
14-10-2010, 21:11
I think the core could be re-thought aswell. I like running 2 units of 25 spearmen with command, which is on the nose 500pts, which will save you some points for extra swordsmasters, wizrad upgrades and magic banners.

thesheriff

That would make the army illegal as it needs to have 25% core included. Your change would only fill up 20% of the requirement.

Greetings
Eta

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
15-10-2010, 06:01
I Fail to see the purpose of the Reavers in said list, as you already have a reasonable missile fire-base and warmachine/mage hunters from the eagles. That nets you 217 Points.

Well the reavers are there for 3 purposes:

1) War Machine hunter redunancy: You can stop 1 or 2 but I don't think an opponent will be able to stop all three.

2) Disruption of Flank bonuses: Assuming they aren't knocked out early and still at full strength they'll be of great use for flank and rear charges while disrupting rank bonuses.

3) Distraction: As many people seem to think these guys would be "easy points" hence an easy distraction for drawing magic & missile fire. To minimise casualties I can always fire out from 24" with them which keeps them out of range of most close combat units that can roll them and I can dispel some the magic sent there way while hoping that they survive returned fire from enemy shooting troops (who's BS is probably worse than the ERs). Only warmachines & flyers can threaten them with any success but then they won't be shooting/attack my infantry units or my characters.



At first thought I'd say change those detachments to 12 models for 6x2. (60 pts)
Secondly, I'd throw in another Swordmaster unit of 10 models, or start drastically changing how your swordmasters are divided::: For one, you only have 4 Banners.

Well the problem with that I'm planning to use the smaller units of SMs as tarpits then for either the main SM unit or the other secondary units to assault from flanks. So giving them banners is just extra VP for the opponent if the smaller SMs units get wiped out.



I think seeing 3 regiments of 18 Swordmasters would look excellent on the table top and provides your mages and characters more places to hide. Give each unit a banner and as much command as you wish by dropping the Warbanner on the spearmen. Deployed 6x3 they look very formidable, and in the Breaking Point scenario you now have 8 break points, meaning you can lose your BSB and all the swordmaster units and continue to fight. All you lose is a unit of wayward Fast Cavalry.

I don't think 3 18 man SMs units are any more effective than my current setup. My reasoning is that the back ranks are just dead weight when it comes to SMs when compared to WLs or PGs (to me it was a compromise to even have the large block of SMs but I needed a semi-strong bunker unit for the mage and BSB to be in). Cost effectiveness for SM derives from only from the first & 2nd ranks being able to attack. So the best unit point per cost would be a champion, musician, and 12 SMs for a 7 man frontage w/ 2 ranks for 22 attacks at STR 5 for 228 pts. assuming they can get into CQC before getting ripped up by missile fire or magic. As far as the break point scenario goes your suggestions would make sense and I'll see what I can do about addressing that.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
15-10-2010, 06:08
Drop the cavalry, there not worth it. Dragon princes are 6pts more, and far better.

Well that's assuming I plan on charging everything from the front. ;) BTW the pts. difference is 9 pts. per figure with better WS, atks, and armor saves but without any range capability or manuverability so it a bit a compromise to whether you want tactical advantages or sheer power and surviability? while 6 DPs vs. 10 ERs in terms of damage in CQC is a no brainer the versatility of the Reavers can't be overlook. 10 ERs can cause disruptions, bow fire from range, vanguard, and fight with a rank bonus with 10 str 4 attacks in a pinch.



You have 40 swordsmasters. i would split them down into rougky equal size units. Unist of 14, all with command, 1 with banner of sorcery.

Again 14 SMs would be like giving free points away with banners if they are taken out in CQC (high probably with a lot of players running 40+ in most CQC regiment). In a battle with MSUs in CQC you can only count the largest regiment's rank bonuses. I would run them in multiple units of 14 SMs if there was another anvil type unit like WL or PG in the army.



The Lord I would give Forlaiths Robes, Talismain of Saphery, Silver wand. The 5 spells helps when you absolutly want certain life spells (usually thorne of vines, flesh to stone, dwellers, regrowth, earth blood). The other i would give seerstaff, with maybe shadow or fire (miasma/pit of shades or flaming sword/cage)


I'll consider this option. It would be workable within the current list setup and does remove the randomness of spell selection.



I think the core could be re-thought aswell. I like running 2 units of 25 spearmen with command, which is on the nose 500pts, which will save you some points for extra swordsmasters, wizrad upgrades and magic banners.

thesheriff

Sorry the core has to stay as is. It's already at the minimum requirement for 2500 pts. unless you can suggest something better.

theorox
15-10-2010, 06:15
Dead weight? They give you a chance against misslie fire if anything. I'm in the "3 units of 18" camp as well. :)

Theo

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
15-10-2010, 06:34
Dead weight? They give you a chance against misslie fire if anything. I'm in the "3 units of 18" camp as well. :)

Theo

Dead weight in terms of what you give up compared to other specialized combat HE infantry. Both PGs and WLs are more survivable in large blocks due to their special rules. SMs are not. They are better utilized as SMUs for tarpits or flank/rear attacks with no more than 14 per unit. What they excel at is stopping large blocks of low T/I, high AS (5+) infantry. That is why I only went with one large block of SMs for a bunker unit with the other two as attachments to either tarpit a unit or flank charge them in conjunction with the main SM, spearman block, and/or ERs.

thesheriff
15-10-2010, 18:42
Sorry, misread the points limit. And i personally do think that 14 swordsmasters works well, but thats your preferance. just amke sure you have banner of sorcery, its just so usful.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
16-10-2010, 13:16
Ok I took some of the advice I got here and revamped the list:


High Elf Army of Saphery 2500 pts. V.2

Lords:
4th Lvl. Archmage: 355 pts. (Lore of Life or High Magic)
Magic Items: Forlaith’s Robe, Talisman of Saphery, & Jewel of Dusk

Heroes:
Noble BSB: 168 pts.
Equipped with great weapon, Armor of Caledor, & Guardian Phoenix

2nd Lvl. Mage: 190 pts. (Lore of Metal)
Equipped with Silver Wand & Reaver Bow

Heroes Total: 358 pts.

Core:
Archer Regiment: 277 pts.
21 archers with full command armed with hand weapons, longbows, & light armor

Spearmen Regiment: 360 pts.
35 spearmen with full command armed with hand weapons, spears, & shields
Standard bearer equipped with the War Banner.

Core Total: 637 pts.

Special:
Sword Masters Command Regiment: 370 pts.
19 Sword Masters with full command armed with hand weapons, heavy armor, & great weapons.
Blademaster equipped with Ironcurse Icon & standard bearer equipped with Banner of Sorcery.

Sword Masters of Hoeth Detachment: 180 pts.
12 Sword Masters armed with hand weapons, heavy armor, & great weapons.

2x Dragon Princes of Caledor: 150 pts. per unit (300 pts. total)
5 Dragon Princes armed with hand weapons, dragon armor, lances, shields, & barded elven steeds.

Special Total: 850 pts.

Rare:
2x Repeater Bolt Thrower: 200 pts.
2x Great Eagles: 100 pts.

Rare Total: 300 pts.

Army Total: 2500 pts.

So the revised plan is to put the the lvl. Archmage & BSB with the SM Bunker unit while the lvl. 2 mage will support the Archers & RBTs.

The SMs gets a boost of survivability from the Blademaster's Ironcurse Icon while the BoS & JoD gives the Archmage & 2nd Lvl. mage more power to draw on in the magic phase.

The Spearman regiment , SM Command regiment, and SM detachment will form the core battleline while the DPs will be deployed for flanking attacks for any units already engaged with the main force. Eagles will of course be on War Machine hunting duty if there are any.

bluemage
16-10-2010, 14:03
I highly recommend you give the archmage the silver wand instead of the jewel of dusk. I haven't done the math, but I have rolled the dice to spell selection a number of times to try see if I could get away with taking the jewel of the dusk. The answer for me was that I couldn't. The lore of life has some great spells, but without the silver wand, on average I had to give up one spell I really wanted.

So I recommend you give the wand to your archmage and the jewel to your lvl 2. This will take you over his points alotment, so just drop the rever bow. I don't think its worth it.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
16-10-2010, 17:34
I highly recommend you give the archmage the silver wand instead of the jewel of dusk. I haven't done the math, but I have rolled the dice to spell selection a number of times to try see if I could get away with taking the jewel of the dusk. The answer for me was that I couldn't. The lore of life has some great spells, but without the silver wand, on average I had to give up one spell I really wanted.

So I recommend you give the wand to your archmage and the jewel to your lvl 2. This will take you over his points alotment, so just drop the rever bow. I don't think its worth it.

Well originally the 2nd setup I thought up for the archmage included the seer staff of saphery and guardian phoenix in addition to folariath's robe instead of the talisman of saphery but I wanted to see what that combo would do as it seems to be highly recommended on this forum.

The jewel of dusk was a compromise without automatic spell selection since I've already included the Banner of Sorcery so to maximize the amount of power dice to allow both mages to cast spells. Otherwise I would have gone with my 2nd setup for the archmage and put the razor banner on the SMs for some additional CQB punch.

However I think the current list as is has a lot more offensive abilities over the previous one at the expense of versatility so I don't know about removing the bow just yet.