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eyescrossed
15-10-2010, 09:13
What uses do the humble Zombies have? Bought ones of course, not summoned :D

I've been thinking of something like Mindrazor'd ones in range of the General, with the Helm of Command to help with their aim ;)

Nothing else, though. Besides spending a few hundred points to buff them, I can't think of anything else.


What say you?

Frankly
15-10-2010, 09:58
I say no.

They just can't do anything this edition. And thats not being negative (- I love my zombies), its being honest.

Any buffs can be given to better units that you buy, ghoul for example.

eyescrossed
15-10-2010, 10:27
Yeah, I guess :D

Still, I want to use Zombies just... Y'know, just 'cause.

But I want to find some effective way about it :)

Daniel36
15-10-2010, 10:43
They are effective at creating an incredible atmosphere, a great ambiance, and of course you don't buy them, you summon them. And only to annoy the crap out of your opponent (which in my case is me), and try to model them as funnily as possible so that your opponent (which in my case is me AND my friend who plays them) crack up everytime you see them and completely forget to do crucial moves and rolls.

They're basically there for the psychological game! :D

vstag
15-10-2010, 10:48
I whant to use them too, but really in 8th due to magic and such there is no reason to take them. They were great tar pits in 7th, but with the new magic all power dice will be going into other things, you could cast some augment spell them to buff them and such, but it would be much better to cast that on anything else you have. Zombies I think are now the worst unit in the game. Unless you just don't own anything else I would say never ever field them.

eyescrossed
15-10-2010, 11:00
They are effective at creating an incredible atmosphere, a great ambiance, and of course you don't buy them, you summon them. And only to annoy the crap out of your opponent (which in my case is me), and try to model them as funnily as possible so that your opponent (which in my case is me AND my friend who plays them) crack up everytime you see them and completely forget to do crucial moves and rolls.

They're basically there for the psychological game! :D
Heh, good idea :p



I whant to use them too, but really in 8th due to magic and such there is no reason to take them. They were great tar pits in 7th, but with the new magic all power dice will be going into other things, you could cast some augment spell them to buff them and such, but it would be much better to cast that on anything else you have. Zombies I think are now the worst unit in the game. Unless you just don't own anything else I would say never ever field them.
Don't you mean TK Heavy Cavalry? ;)

Spleen Hammer
15-10-2010, 12:38
I own over a hundred of the things and I have been asking this question for awhile now. The way I see it, zombies are sweet merely because they're zombies. Sure, they can't kill much, and take a lot to allow them to do anything, and take points away from other core units... wait. Where was I going with that again?

I use zombies just because. Okkams Mindrazor, the Helm o' Commandment and IoN and a Corpsecart all tied together can make a unit of zombies an utter terror to behold. A unit of around 60 zombies, under all those conditions, once ate my brother's 40+ unit of Plaguebearers and Herald, and then got to move on to a new combat, but couldn't reach.

I just love the dead, squishy things in life, you know? Hrmm, that was contradictory, wasn't it?

Sloppyjayman
15-10-2010, 14:57
I always field a unit of 50 in hoard and 20 in 5x4 formation. The 50 Never fails to draw my opponents best unit. I always bunker my casting Vampire Lord in a unit of 25 skeletons right behind them with the Helm. I don't buff them with anything else. Zombies with WS7 are very hard to hit. Remember WS3 vs WS7 hit on 5+.

Also, zombies are so easy to raise. D6+4 (+5 with corpse cart loadstone)

Against you opponents best unit the block of 50 will lose probably 25-30 (assuming they are WS4+). But you hold and probably did 4 or 5 wounds with hoard formation.

I say always bring 1 unit of 50. They will always pay for themselves.

The unit of 20 is strictly for Watchtower. I put them in there and spend all my casting dice to raise more. By turn 3 you should have at least 60 by the time they get them. Then i just raise 30 more every turn and you win. Remember only kills go to combat rez so you lose less zombies in a tower.

Just my thoughts.

Tomalock
15-10-2010, 16:17
They are good for points denial. Running a block of 100 is hard to chew through and easy to keep up over the course of a game, especially since you can raise them beyond their starting point without buying anything extra. When 100 becomes 130-150 by turn 2-3 most people will simply move on to other, less time consuming targets. You definatly have to build the list with points denial in mind, but I think they absolutly have their place in 8th.

Thats for paid ones, for summoned ones, its even better because they only cost you 50VPs no matter how many you get, so I would say do both!

sulla
16-10-2010, 05:35
They are dirt cheap and can carry a flag; tick1. They use up your core points; tick2. They can take on most light stuff (scouts, fast cav, war machine crews, most shooters) and take them out of the game or even kill them; tick3. They die no quicker than the same amount of other VC core vs hard hitters like chaos warriors; tick4.

Skeletons are so bad now, and ghouls not much better that it is worth considering a few units of zombies to pad out your core. They bring much needed flags for blood and glory, help you control deployment without taking poor units like 5 dire wolves. You can either hold them back in your deployment to protect the flags if need be, or send them up the flanks (near something vampiric, preferably) to threaten enemy light stuff and war machines. You can even use them as a screen for your important troops, although in my experience, there is not a lot of BS shooting around in this edition since GW screwed up the balance between templates and BS so badly.

eyescrossed
16-10-2010, 05:58
Uhm...

They're T2. Against WoC, both Skellies and Ghouls have far more survivability ;)

And I like Skeletons, to be honest. The Parry save is great, in my opinion.


But yeah. I like them. They're just... Really fragile. Invocation of Nehek does wonders for them, though.

sulla
16-10-2010, 09:49
Not against s5. Dwarves and WoC, DoC, HE can have significant numbers of s5 troops.

Ghouls and to a lesser extent, skellies are more survivable vs ranged attacks, but if your opponents are shooting/magicking your zombies, you're winning anyway.

At the end of the day, it's much of a muchness. All 3 units have flaws. Ghouls can't carry a flag, skellies are 8 pt fear causing goblins, zombies are dreadful at combat but have other positives. With the magic dice being so tight these days, I'd probably prefer to bring at least one unit (if I wanted zombies in the army), rather than waste 2 dice summoning them when I'm probably only going to have 7 dice per phase.

eyescrossed
16-10-2010, 10:22
Not against s5. Dwarves and WoC, DoC, HE can have significant numbers of s5 troops.

Ghouls and to a lesser extent, skellies are more survivable vs ranged attacks, but if your opponents are shooting/magicking your zombies, you're winning anyway.

At the end of the day, it's much of a muchness. All 3 units have flaws. Ghouls can't carry a flag, skellies are 8 pt fear causing goblins, zombies are dreadful at combat but have other positives. With the magic dice being so tight these days, I'd probably prefer to bring at least one unit (if I wanted zombies in the army), rather than waste 2 dice summoning them when I'm probably only going to have 7 dice per phase.

Out of them, I only face Dwarfs ;)

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll definitely include at least one unit.

Haravikk
16-10-2010, 12:17
What's the minimum unit size? Since it seems to be easy to raise them beyond their starting size surely it's quite economical to just get the minimum, or at least a minimal horde then just grow them throughout the battle; either your enemy takes the time to stop them growing, or they become an increasingly dangerous nuisance.

Even if your opponent does try to take them out they can be surprisingly annoying to wipe out completely which means they can usually be good points denial.

I've only really seen them fielded as huge units, but the cost to do so seems extreme when they are a unit that can grow in size if left unchecked.

eyescrossed
16-10-2010, 12:34
20 is the minimum size, and that's a good idea!

sulla
16-10-2010, 20:34
I don't know if it's worth buying much morfe than 20 anyway. Supercombat units munch through them, no matter how many you buy and you can't support them because their crumble will bring down any allies you send in.

But 20 with a flag is large enough to tie up a unit of fast cav or missile troops for the whole game or hard to copletely destroy if they hang in the backfield protecting their flag.

Maoriboy007
16-10-2010, 21:00
The only positive to zombies is that skeletons suck so much now that the (Comparative!) cheapness of zombies makes that more appealing fo sheer numbers.
You are just as likely to lose a unit of skeletons as you are a unit of zombies now, but for 30 skeletons I could take 60 zombies.
Of course that is after I have used all my Ghoul models :)

eyescrossed
16-10-2010, 22:31
I don't know if it's worth buying much morfe than 20 anyway. Supercombat units munch through them, no matter how many you buy and you can't support them because their crumble will bring down any allies you send in.

But 20 with a flag is large enough to tie up a unit of fast cav or missile troops for the whole game or hard to copletely destroy if they hang in the backfield protecting their flag.
You can raise them easily, and if you even get one Invocation off on them, that's an average of 7-8 extra Zombies. I'd rather have a large-ish unit that won't be destroy easily.



The only positive to zombies is that skeletons suck so much now that the (Comparative!) cheapness of zombies makes that more appealing fo sheer numbers.
You are just as likely to lose a unit of skeletons as you are a unit of zombies now, but for 30 skeletons I could take 60 zombies.
Of course that is after I have used all my Ghoul models :)
I don't know why everyone says this! Skeletons are awesome... You need to be able to take Banners for Blood and Glory, the Parry save is awesome vs Str6+ things, and they're a lot cooler than Ghouls :p

In seriousness, though... I don't think Skeletons completely suck.

rocdocta
18-10-2010, 05:16
how to make zombies shine...
1. make sure they will be in range of helm of command and VC lord
2. cast mindrazor on zombies and charge the heavy chaos cav.
3. await the ineviatable 4 or 5 wounds from enemy cav
4. remove the heavy cav with 10 ws6 str10 zombie attacks.
5. smile when told zombies are OP...

or if you want to be really mean...use either the staff of damn to do 10 attacks and not bother about the iicoming attacks or cast danse on them to go first.

buying a unit of zombies frees up a lvl1 vamp to hope for danse being rolled.

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 05:38
how to make zombies shine...
1. make sure they will be in range of helm of command and VC lord
2. cast mindrazor on zombies and charge the heavy chaos cav.
3. await the ineviatable 4 or 5 wounds from enemy cav
4. remove the heavy cav with 10 ws6 str10 zombie attacks.
5. smile when told zombies are OP...

or if you want to be really mean...use either the staff of damn to do 10 attacks and not bother about the iicoming attacks or cast danse on them to go first.

buying a unit of zombies frees up a lvl1 vamp to hope for danse being rolled.

Hah, I love it! :D

Sloppyjayman
18-10-2010, 19:03
Even Better....

Grab the WS10 pair of swords from the common magic item list. Then take the Helm and now your zombies have WS10. Who said zombies are not a tar-pit anymore. Just remember to be nice when you tell you opponent that most of his army hits your zombies on 5+.... Do you know how ling it takes for your opponent to kill 50 zombies with WS10. lol

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 22:34
You can accomplish the same with the Lore of Light :p

Good idea, anyway :)

rocdocta
19-10-2010, 01:48
and for really good times...i ran my razor zombies...in horde! 30 str10 attacks ws6! nothing can stop that. they kill 5...i heal back 12. i kill 22. :)