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Satan
18-10-2010, 09:18
So, I had a situation arise in a game last friday where The Other Tricksters Shard wound up affecting the entire opponents unit.

I was fielding a unit of Bestigors with a Doombull on the side, and they wound up in combat with a frontal facing against a unit of Phoenix guards.

Now, the doombull is standing off to one side, in base contact with a single phoenix guard and he's equipped with said item.

Of course, as he performs his attacks, my opponent has to re-roll all successful ward saves.

But then, when it's the bestigors turn to strike, my opponent argues that the item would end up affecting the whole unit due to stepping-up. Naturally I didn't argue this and killed a bunch of elves.

But does anyone have any input on this situation? Does the item inadvertedly end up affecting the entire unit on account of stepping-ups to the doombull? Can anyone think of similiar situations?

Lord_Elric
18-10-2010, 09:49
So, I had a situation arise in a game last friday where The Other Tricksters Shard wound up affecting the entire opponents unit.

I was fielding a unit of Bestigors with a Doombull on the side, and they wound up in combat with a frontal facing against a unit of Phoenix guards.

Now, the doombull is standing off to one side, in base contact with a single phoenix guard and he's equipped with said item.

Of course, as he performs his attacks, my opponent has to re-roll all successful ward saves.

But then, when it's the bestigors turn to strike, my opponent argues that the item would end up affecting the whole unit due to stepping-up. Naturally I didn't argue this and killed a bunch of elves.

But does anyone have any input on this situation? Does the item inadvertedly end up affecting the entire unit on account of stepping-ups to the doombull? Can anyone think of similiar situations?

if u made way into the unit then it would effect more than on the side however i would say hed have to split his attack if he wanted to attack ones next to your doombull other wise he would b hitting basic rank and file

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 09:49
That's why I'm not sure of it's worth. It only seems good in challenges, to be honest.

As for the interpretation, not sure. Sorry.

Satan
18-10-2010, 09:51
To clarify: My opponent argued that HE'D have to re-roll HIS own ward-saves.

My bestigors don't have any. The way we played it the item inadvertedly ended up affecting HIS entire unit.

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 09:53
I think it does affect them.

Lord_Elric
18-10-2010, 10:00
To clarify: My opponent argued that HE'D have to re-roll HIS own ward-saves.

My bestigors don't have any. The way we played it the item inadvertedly ended up affecting HIS entire unit.

ooo sorry if that was the case then it would just affect wounds from the doombull and if u allocated them the wounds from bestigors in basecontact to the left or right of him

narrativium
18-10-2010, 10:33
The Shard affects all models in base contact (and when you step-up, you move into contact). If the Bestigor can target a Phoenix Guard who is on contact with the Doombull, the elf has to reroll the save; if the Bestigor can't, the elf doesn't. So allocate the attacks appropriately and roll separately.

I've been using the item with my Ogres for a while. It makes things a bit interesting when I cast the spell which gives my Ogre unit magic resistance and regeneration, as the Shard affects the Ogres in base contact as well as the enemy. All very well for regeneration, but if the enemy has flaming attacks, I have to re-roll my MR saves!

Satan
18-10-2010, 11:01
The Shard affects all models in base contact (and when you step-up, you move into contact). If the Bestigor can target a Phoenix Guard who is on contact with the Doombull, the elf has to reroll the save; if the Bestigor can't, the elf doesn't. So allocate the attacks appropriately and roll separately.


I guess in that case I'd have to roll separately for the bestigor also in base contact with the same elf as the Doombull, right? Because him and the guy behind him are frenzied they should thus be able to cause 3 wounds on the phoenix guards which would have to be ward-save-re-rolls whilst the remainder of the unit would not cause a re-roll of successful ward saves.

Does the above contradict current rules in any way?

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 11:48
I've been using the item with my Ogres for a while. It makes things a bit interesting when I cast the spell which gives my Ogre unit magic resistance and regeneration, as the Shard affects the Ogres in base contact as well as the enemy. All very well for regeneration, but if the enemy has flaming attacks, I have to re-roll my MR saves!
.....What?

Satan
18-10-2010, 11:50
.....What?

Well, if his ogres suffered a wound from a magic flaming attack he'd be able to counter it with a magic resistance ward save, but would be forced to re-roll it on account of the Shard.

I'd take a second look at the Shard rules and see if that doesn't just apply in combat though. And as I recall magic resistance only works against damage spells anyway, right?

eyescrossed
18-10-2010, 12:12
You mean, if he suffered a Wound from something like a Fireball, not a Balefire Spike, right?

EDIT: Yep. Only against spells.

Satan
18-10-2010, 12:35
You mean, if he suffered a Wound from something like a Fireball, not a Balefire Spike, right?

EDIT: Yep. Only against spells.

Yeah, I take it that's his meaning.

narrativium
18-10-2010, 12:36
It was. Didn't realise how tangential I was getting.

Shas'O Vash
18-10-2010, 14:27
The Shard affects all models in base contact (and when you step-up, you move into contact). If the Bestigor can target a Phoenix Guard who is on contact with the Doombull, the elf has to reroll the save; if the Bestigor can't, the elf doesn't. So allocate the attacks appropriately and roll separately.

I've been using the item with my Ogres for a while. It makes things a bit interesting when I cast the spell which gives my Ogre unit magic resistance and regeneration, as the Shard affects the Ogres in base contact as well as the enemy. All very well for regeneration, but if the enemy has flaming attacks, I have to re-roll my MR saves!

I would agree with this. If the Doombull was in the middle of a unit facing off against a unit of Phoenix Gaurd (say 5 models wide) then he would be in base contact with 3 models. Any Bestigors who could attack those 3 models would force a reroll. Any Bestigors who could only attack the 2 Elves on the ends (the ones not touching the Doombull) would not force a reroll.

Also, regeneration is a save taken in place of a ward save (it is not a ward save in and of itself) and is not affected by the OTS.

Satan
18-10-2010, 14:56
I would agree with this. If the Doombull was in the middle of a unit facing off against a unit of Phoenix Gaurd (say 5 models wide) then he would be in base contact with 3 models. Any Bestigors who could attack those 3 models would force a reroll. Any Bestigors who could only attack the 2 Elves on the ends (the ones not touching the Doombull) would not force a reroll.

Also, regeneration is a save taken in place of a ward save (it is not a ward save in and of itself) and is not affected by the OTS.

Thanks for the input, but I think you need to read narrativium's post more closely. ;-)

Shas'O Vash
18-10-2010, 15:05
Thanks for the input, but I think you need to read narrativium's post more closely. ;-)

Ok... What did I screw up this time? I was pretty much agreeing with everything narrativium said; at least I think I did...

Satan
18-10-2010, 15:19
Ok... What did I screw up this time? I was pretty much agreeing with everything narrativium said; at least I think I did...

Hehe, nothing. He was just noting that he was forced to re-roll his MR saves and not the regeneration saves.