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Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:45
Hei guys.

Played a tournament this last weekend, 5 games, 2400 points, slightly comped (no power scroll) no double rare choices and character killing spells like dwellers and final transmutation gave look out sir rolls.

I took:

Slann (Light), rumination, cogitation, mystery, cupped hands, bsb, FEAR DAGGER, Banner if dicipline ( fairly standard ultimate slann of DOOM)

Skink priest lv2 with cube, ironcurse icon

23 saurus with full com and spears
23 saurus with full com and spears

7 Cold one cavalry with Huanchi's blessed totem
20 Temple guard with full com, flaming banner
8 Chameleon skinks
8 Chameleon skinks
7 Chameleon skinks

3 Salamanders

Thoughts on the list after my games. (skip ahead if you just want to read about the games)

Lore of light works really well but miscasts are definitely risky

Adding soul of stone could really be worth it though it didn't come up for me. It gives you a re-roll for the miscast you give to your opponent which is great, increasing the chance of actually killing said mage and it does the same in the opposite manner if you miscast a 2nd time and have to actually take the miscast. 50 is not a bad price imo.

Fear dagger actually caused an opponents MAIN unit to fail their ld8 with re-roll fear test. This thing will be in my lists forever from now on! (because its awesome fun)

Lv2 skink priest with cube is a waste, 140 points for a guy that almost never casts, NEVER casts more than 1 spell and never benefits from the difference between a cube and a normal scroll. Though in theory I imagine it would against vampire counts who have 10 dice and 2 dice vanhels or raise a lot (but 2 dice is risky with a slann negating 6s) A lv1 with scroll for 90pts is a lot cheaper and does the same thing 95% of the time.

I still like having a lv1 skink priest, if I am really lucky and get comet that is nice, or uranons/chain lightning against someone with really expensive knights, say blood or chaos knights etc then great, otherwise the 1st spell is decent, I can get a -1 to hit with 2 dice and if my slann fails to cast something the skink can put all the remaining dice into this, its not great but I will take it.

Saurus warriors with spears, well tough one, I pay 46 points overall for my spears, in my 5 games I only managed to use them on very few occasions, most of the time by the time I get into CC I have lost a fair few saurus (but then I am not the most aggressive player so don't charge in on turn 1 or 2) I was often down to about 15-18 by the time I hit combat and after a few losses in combat (init 1) I was getting only a few extra attacks from the spears.

Against armies with shooting they tend to not be worth it.

That said, 8th is all about large units, people can bring 2 points slaves, gnoblars 3 point goblins, zombies etc. Without spears you can be stuck grinding these units for a long time and I certainly don't want my 320 point unit stuck fighting a 60 point unit for many turns.

Still on the fence with the spears. The thing was for me that I was playing the lore of light, so with bironas timewarp cast a lot, I was the one charging, meaning spears did not work that turn, I also didn't get parry, so it was worse, after wards however when I go full attacks it was great.

I guess it comes down to what you fear more, losing a few models that cost more or being stuck for a long time against hordes of worthless enemies. I would say with light perhaps it is less necessary than with life.

I was surprised by this as with light giving you ws10 and often asf as well, I figured more attacks is better since the enemy is hitting you less and you hit them more=more attacks should be better. Once you factor in the saurus charging more often than not it becomes less critical.

Cold one cav with the huanchi banner really surprised me at how good they where, without the banner I wouldn't run them but the banner makes them worthwhile.

Turn 1 charges where happening in a few games due to extended deployment zone special rules or good charge rolls etc, if the enemy moves up on turn 1 its almost guaranteed. Bironas timewarp made them crazy! able to flank enemy units from across the field. Also the +1 attack from timewarp was great. Definitely good with light, I would imagine with life also as you can bring them back and with shield of thorns they can grind infantry units.

No one actually put war machine fire on them, the saurus units where always a larger target for war machines.

The chameleon skinks where amazing! taking out war machines and unarmoured enemies left and right. 8 seems like a good number, much better than the 6 I was running before. Games where they are not good are rare.

Salamanders... well people tend to think they are almost like cheating, so amazing, I didn't have to go fight dwarves in CC because I had 3 salamanders, they where that good! Add bironas time warp and they move 20 or 24" depending on how you play the spell , a turn then flame!

Changes
The only changes I would make moving on is to perhaps take soul of stone (though this tournament I didn't kill anyone with my cupped hands/bane head combo), drop the skink priest down to lv1 with scroll, add curse charm of tepok to his arsenal.

The temple guard champ could take the potion of speed, forgot it this time. 3 S5 attacks at init 5 is fairly nice and 5 points is a decent price to pay.

That is about it, if I was using the lore of light again I would drop the spears for 46 points to spend around.

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:45
I will keep these short so this doesn't end up being 10 pages like usual.

Game 1 vs Deamons of chaos

Great unclean one lv2 (balesword?)

Tzeentch herald with full lore (life)
Tzeentch herald with full lore (metal)
Herald of khorne

40? horde of blood letters (khorne herald inside)
40? horde of horros (both casters inside)

3*5 furies
1 fiend of slaanesh

6 flamers

I wasn't too worried, he had essentially 1 combat block, the GUO and the horrors for casting. I had never seen an army with 20! spells so that was interesting. I couldn't even get much out of my slann's cogitation, I would use it on the life slann but he would just cast from the other 13 spells at his disposal. Still it stopped life buffs from coming through.

The scenario had special deployment zones, 10"+d6".

My opponents was the normal 12", he deployed to the edge there and mine was 16".

Deployments as follows.

DOC from left to right.

Fiend, GUO on left flank, khorne horde in center, horrors on right flank, flamers on the right flank. Furies one in left flank and 2 on the right.

My deployment left to right.
Left flank has 1 unit of camo skinks behind a hill to take out the fiend.

Center has saurus unit on left, temple guard in center and saurus on right (I figure I will be alright if I get 2 units into the khorns and cast Init10 ws10) then on the right I have salamanders in a wood and far right flank I have my cold one cav deployed at the 16" line to charge the horrors/flamers/ furies.

I was a little afraid of the flamers which deployed last after my cav went down.

I win roll for turn 1.
Here I make the biggest mistake.

I completely forget that deamons cannot run as a charge reaction! as such I chose to charge the furies in front of the horrors, what I should have done is charge the furies in front of the flamers but the distance between the furies and the flamers was large enough that I figured I might possible fail to make the distance if he flees.


I also forgot about being able to redirect.

Anyway, I thought he would flee and I would have a failed charge and be shot at by the flamers so I went for the furies in front of the horrors.

With 12 and 16" deployment zones I was 20" away, I declare the charge, he holds. I activate huanchis banner and roll the needed amount, I managed 21" (slightly above the 19.5" average)

I roll through the furies into the horrors but only manage to get 1 cold one into btb with a herald.

Otherwise I don't do much, I move some skinks forward to shoot at the GUO, the skinks on the left flank stay hidden behind the wall, waiting for the fiend to move up so they can move to its flank out of its charge arc. the remaining skinks move up a few inches but I am out of shooting range with them. I fire on the GUO and it turns out it has 4+ armour, 4+ regen and the 5+ ward. I do no wounds, well this is going to be insanely tough since my poison doesn't really work and he has the lore of life to heal! salamanders do not attempt to fire.

In my magic phase I cast the d6 magic missile on the furies which he dispels, leaving me with 8 dice and him with 2 DD. I then try to cast a 2nd spell, net of amyntok (great spell) onto the horror/tzeentch block, I use 3 dice so I require a 6, I roll 1,1,2!!!!



DOC turn 1:
He decides not to risk charging the flamers into my cold one flank and instead turns to face the bloodletters to an angle that allows them to see my cold one flank.

GUO attempts a charge on my skinks, I flee and it moves up 2-3".
He casts +2 toughness on 6 dice and gets a IF, I had the same amount of dispel dice and an additional +2 to dispel from my slann vs his lv2 herald but it was not to be. (need that curse charm of tepok!)

My cold ones do not manage many wounds, I lose combat but hold, the S5 on the charge helped here)

Lizardmen turn 2.
I am still maintaining my distance as I want to get some magic damage done or salamander flaming before I move in.

My skinks on the left flank move up and fire on the fiend causing 0 wounds with 16 poison attacks at close range! (5s to hit)

My magic phase has me cast d6 missile at the furies again which is dispelled, again leaving me with 7-9 PD with my opponent having 2-3 DD, a good situation. I try net of amyntok again on 3 dice, again requiring a 6 and I again fail! damn that spell is hard to cast! So that is 2 magic phases I have lost!

In CC my cold ones fail to cause any wounds onto the T5 4++ save horrors, I lose combat and am run down! damn.

really wish I had charged those furies into the flamers! would have been 4 static cr less, though they might have killed something. Having init2 on the cold one cav is actually quite rough, anything with S4 (say furies) can actually hurt you before you strike, they killed 1 knight the turn I charged them.

My salamanders get a few ok hits on the bloodletters but not much dies really. That banish spell would have been nice.

DOC turn 2.
The bloodletters are at such an angle that they can see me unit of skinks in front of my TG, they declare a charge needing a 16, I flee, the letters redirect into my TG needing 20" they roll 5,5,6. They had the banner that gave an extra D6 to the charge so they roll in!

they also wheel and hit my saurus unit. damn! I am now in CC with a horde of letters and I have no buffs on. I really didn't think they would be charging 21"! on foot!

Well, the game pretty much winds down from here, the letters kill my TG in 2 turns and my saurus fight on for a few more, my slann dodges and wards a heck of a lot of killing blow hits but is eventually taken down with just regular strikes.

I got ws10 off later but the letters are ws5 so still hit on 4s.

The GUO went on to take down the last saurus block and the game was done.

I lost the game 20/0
That 21" charge was somewhat surprising, the letters weren't even looking in that direction, they just barely could see the skinks and the TG out of the corner of their charge arc and with the way charges work now and wheeling being essentially free the last letters in the unit moved about 30" during that charge. ouch!

I really needed to have some buffs on to take on that fight, but since it came before I expected it I was not prepared.

The player went on to win all 5 games 20/0 and won the tournament with full gaming points 100/100.

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:46
Game 3 vs Dwarves

Armylist:
Dwarf lord with shield bearers
Runelord with anvil of DOOOOM

Dwarf thane BSB

24 Slayers (wound anything on a 4+)
20+ rangers with GWs
20+ longbeards I think

10 dwarf handgunners
6 miners

Organ gun
Cannon rune of accuracy or something
Rune of accuracy, rune of strength (or whatever its called)
Rune of accuracy, rune of strength (or whatever its called)
1 Engineer

So 3 large blocks, 1 smaller shooting one, 4 war machines and the anvil

Anvil gave +3 DD and he stole one of my power dice not great for me.

Dwarf deployment.
Left flank empty, in the center he has the slayers to the left, the rangers with GW in the center with an organ gun between them, to the right of the rangers he has a a rock lobba with the anvil behind the rangers. To the right of the stone thrower he has the lord and bsb in the longbeard unit, to their right he has the 2nd stone thrower and the cannon.

On the far right flank he has his 10 dwarf handgunners.

I deploy slightly differently than normal, from left to right, salamanders, saurus, cold one riders, temple guard, saurus, chamo skinks deploy with all 3 units to the top right of my opponents deployment zone, the only place I can really go after his machines.

I win the first turn and move everything up a little but make sure to keep my entire army out of range of the organ gun (I fear it that much!)

My chamo skinks open up on the cannon destroying it and also manage 2 wounds onto the stone thrower leaving 1 wound left.

I cast bironas timewarp onto my entire army! on a roll of 24 but no IF (used 7 dice) my opponent uses a dispel scroll.

Turn 1 dwarves move his dwarf lord unit up a little, the other units don't move.

Shooting sees his anvil use the ancient power, it works on 1 unit, this kills a unit of skinks, another unit flees due to being too close. the stone throwers both hit but kill no more than 4 saurus, 1 of the units targeted had the ironcurse item which helped a little.

Organ gun has nothing in range.

Lizardmen turn 2, I move up now with my saurus and TG, still keeping my Cold ones further than 24" from the organ gun.

I cast bironas timewarp again, this time with IF which I ignore with my cupped hands. It hits the TG, the cold one riders and the right saurus unit. My chamo skinks finnish off a stone thrower.

My salamanders open up on the dwarf rangers with GWs killing a few.

Dwarf turn 2.

His lord unit moves up onto a hill on the center right.
His slayers move back a few inches to get some space between them and the saurus on the left flank (these have no bironas atm but we both seemed to forget this and assumed they would be in charge range)

His miners come onto the table but with such a small unit size can do little, they enter on the right flank near their 10 handgunners.

The orgun gun opens up on a unit of saurus warriors but it rolls a misfire.
The stone thrower fires on the right most saurus unit, thinking they will charge his lord unit, they get a good hit and take down 6 saurus!

Anvil tries to use ancient power but fails.

Lizardmen turn 3.
With bironas timewarp I have massive charge ranges.

Rather than charging my unit of 12 saurus into his dwarf lord unit, I instead charge my TG into them, they are further away but with birona it seems possible, I measure and I am 14" away so need a 6, I manage a 9 so charge them in the front, my cold one riders activate their huanchi banner and also charge the unit to the flank, with 10+long strider charge + d6 from my huanchi banner I charge over 20", not bad.

My salamanders who also had bironas on them where able to march 20" to the dwarf armies flank and fire 3 flaming templates that hit the unit of slayers AND the unit of rangers, 30 or so hits later the dwarf blocks aren't looking so frightning.

In the magic phase I get 10 dice. I manage to cast net of amontyk on the GW ranger unit to stop them charging my cold ones in the rear the turn later should the dwarfes hold, I use 1+1 dice on this (taking some risks here).

I then cast. I then cast speed of light (ws/init 10) onto the slann and the cold ones using the AOE version. my opponent has 8 DD and decides to try and dispel on 4 and fails to do so needing a 14 roll.

I then cast bironas timewarp on the cold ones, my opponent again tries to dispel on 4 and fails!

Finally I cast a -1 to hit on the cold ones.

4! spells off against dwarves with an anvil! madness!!!

Well needless to say my cold ones with ws10 init10 +1 attack AND rerolls to hit did a number on the dwarf lords unit while attacking to the flank, my temple guard then chipped in a bunch more S5 attacks. I had something like 31 S5 attacks and then the cold ones S4 attacks.

The dwarves lost by a lot! failed their check and ran.

At this point I had lost nothing but 2 skink units and my opponent was down to 2 very weak blocks and a few war machines with my army moving in from all directions.

My opponent conceded.

Had he realized my cold ones could charge from so far away he could have angled his dwarf lords unit different so I could not make both charges.

Getting 4 spells off was massive, if he had taken the safe route he could have easily dispelled either the speed of light or the timewarp.

20/0 for the lizardmen

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:47
Game 4 vs Dwarves (see this is why I don't bring stegs)

Dwarf lord
Dwarf thane bsb
Runelord with anvil

20+ Ironbreakers
30 or so dwarf warriors with GWs
14+ dwarf hammerers, 7 wide
10 dwarf quarallers with GWs
10 dwarf hand gunners

6-10 miners

Cannon, rune of accuracy
Stone thrower, rune of accuracy, S(9) 4
Stone thrower, rune of accuracy, S(9) 4
Organ gun

Fairly similar to the earlier list, ironbreakers this time instead of slayers.

Dwarf deployment

The table has a large building towards the left flank of the dwarf deployment zone (great for my chamo skinks to hide behind!)

Behind the building on the left he starts by deploying a unit of hand gunners and the cannon, towars the center area from left to right he has the unit of iron breakers, a stone thrower behind them and the orgun gun to their right, then at the very center he has the large dwarf warrior unit, anvil behind them and another stone thrower to their right. Then on the right of the center area he has the hammerer unit. On the right flank he has the unit of quarrelers.

As my army has so few units I am always at a disadvantage at deployment (no normal skinks) so the orgun gun is always placed to target my cold ones.

My deployment.

On the left I have my cold ones, followed by saurus warriors, salamanders, slann and TG, finally saurus on the right of my center area.

All 3 chamo skinks deploy behind the house on the left of his deployment area, I really don't like organ guns!

The bonus of finnishing deployment first is that I get a +1 to determine who gets first turn so I yet again won this roll.

Lizardmen turn 1.

I move 2 units of chamo skinks to fire on the organ gun, the 3rd cannot fit so goes to fire on the cannon.

Organ gun goes down to the first chamo skink unit, 16 poison shots! 2nd is out of range to fire. 3rd unit shoots 2 wounds onto the cannon.

I move my army up but not knowing the orgun gun would die I stay out of range for the first turn.

I try to get birona up but it is scrolled. Pha's protection is dispelled.

Everything moves up a little but still a great distance between our armies. I am happy with that now that the orgun gun is dead and cannon will soon follow. Anvil and that flying steam engine thing seem to be the only decent counters, perhaps hand gunners but 5+ to hit when not moving is still rough.

Dwarf turn 1, the hammerers move up a little on the right center, other units stay still.

War machines fire with the stone throwers taking down 4 saurus from the left saurus unit. The cannon lines up a great shot that can hit 2 salamanders, luckily the cannon shot fires over the salamanders and does not roll onto the adjacent saurus unit.

Anvil kills 4 skinks, the handgunners on the left also kill 1 and the unit flees with 2 skinks left.

The quarrelers fire on the right saurus unit killing 1

Lizardmen turn 2.
The large GW warrior unit with BSB and lord inside uses their rune of challenge forcing my skink unit to charge or flee, I opt to flee, 2 skinks running now.

As the unit that fled last turn failed to rally.

My units all move up including my cold ones now that the organ gun is dead.

My cold ones and left saurus move up towards the iron breakers, the temple guard move up towards the large GW warrior squad while my 2nd saurus unit heads up on the left towards the hammers, slightly wary of the 10 strong quarreler with GWs unit on the far right flank.

In the shooting phase my final unit of chamo skinks takes some shots at the dwarf hand gunners killing a few, my salamanders fire on the hammerers killing 4-5.

In the magic phase I am completely shut down, I roll 4 dice through the winds of magic, one of which is taken from me by the dwarves, leaving me with 3 PD against my opponents 5-6 DD, my opponent does let me get a d6 magic missile through. killing a few GW warriors.

Dwarves turn 2:
The hammerers charge my salamanders, they are quite far so unlikely to make it but I don't want to take the chance so flee.

The iron breakers move up 6" and then use the anvil to charge my cold ones. I decide to flee, was silly for me to be so close given my average 19.5" charge range. (that said the dwarves do have 16" average charge with the anvil) they redirect and fail their charge against my left saurus unit.

The 2 stone throwers kill a few more saurus but I am making my saves quite well so nothing critical. The miners come in on the right flank near the quarrelers, ready to flank my saurus if I go for the shooters.

Lizardmen turn 3
The hammers have their flank exposed to my templeguard since they failed their charge against my salamanders, this looks like a good opportunity (forgot they where stubborn) so I charge them, my opponent accepts which I thought was odd until I remembered their special rules.

I have now exposed my flank to the large almost 30 strong dwarf GW warrior unit.

My saurus on the left move up towards the iron breaks to make sure they cannot pull an anvil move towards my templeguard, positioning myself in a way that would give me a rear charge on them if they did so.

In the magic phase I manage to roll 4,4 which is great as it gives me 7 PD against my opponents 8, its as good as it gets vs dwarves! With these dice I roll well and cast speed of light and bironas timewarp on my TG. My opponent chose to try and attempt dispelling both rather than taking one off easily, he failed both times so I now had ws10 init10 asf and +1 attack.

That said only 2 models are in btb so I only get 9 attacks, it kills half the unit, I win and reform, giving the hammerers my flank and turning to face the dwarf warrior unit. combat reform sure is nice.

I manage to rally my skinks on the left while my saurus cav fails to rally on ld8 and continues to run, now 3" from the table edge.

Dwarves turn 3
With my TG unit having bironas time warp and speed of light he cannot possible charge the warriors in and instead reforms 9 wide, he has about 23 models left at this point.

Shooting sees his 2 catapults kill a few saurus yet again from the left saurus unit before his anvil pushes the irnonbreakers into CC with them.

These guys grind it out for the rest of the game, I widen my unit to get maximum attacks but when the game ends on turn 6 both sides still have about 5 models left. I normally lose the combats but am within my slanns ld10 bubble and reroll ability so its all good.

My templeguard kill needs to kill 4 hammers and with my 7 attacks to the flank (champ and 1 normal) I manage to do so freeing my temple guard unit.

Lizardmen turn 4.
My salamanders rally, as do my cold ones.

On the left my saurus unit marches (16 due to the AOE timewarp) towards the querrelers marching out of the miners charge arc.

In the magic phase I kill a few more dwarves with a magic missile and 6 dice timewarp on the higher AOE level getting it through, not sure if it was a IF or if the dwarf just failed the dispel.

As my opponent has made his dwarven warriors 9 wide, I increase my size to 8-9 wide for maximum attacks on my TG also, I didn't want to charge 6 wide into his 9 wide.

Dwarves turn 4
His dwarven warriors see 9 wide is no longer good and reform to 5 wide to minimise casualties! ah what a dance.

His stone throwers fire on my TG killing a few models (they hit like every time but he always failed the 2+ to wound roll and I made decent saves against the normal hits)

On the right his querrelers fire killing another saurus.

Lizardmen turn 5.
I declare a charge on the right with my 18 or so saurus against 10 GW querellers, I kill 6 before he hits back, kills 2 an is run down.

In the center I consider charging the GW warriors but as my salamanders have bironas cast they have a 20" march, I instead march them to to the warrior units flank and flame away. rather painful for the dwarves I can tell you!

The saurus and ironbreakers fight away, nothing special.

Dwarves turn 5. my opponent is running out of chances, he decides he needs to get some points (nothing of mine dead yet, half points from 1 unit of saurus) He uses the ancient power of the anvil, I figured he would just take out the 3 units of skinks (what I would have done on turn 1) but instead he went for 1 unit of skinks which dies, 1 unit of cold one cav which lost 2, and finally the unit of salamanders which lost 2 salamanders (and gave half points granted)

shooting again kills a few saurus but nothing special.

Lizardmen turn 6.
I charge my temple guard into his lord/bsb GW warrior unit.

Somehow I yet again manage to get some good spells off, speed of light and bironas timewarp, even a -1 to hit hex, needless to say the unit was decimated,however due to my 9 wide formation and his 5 wide he had steadfast for the first turn.

dwarf turn 6.

He tries the ancient power again but it fails.
His lords unit is killed in CC against my ws10 init10 asf +1 attack -1 to be hit S5 templeguard.... I win combat by a lot, he takes a insane courage test with reroll but fails to make the roll and is run down.

I lose half a unit of saurus, half my salamanders and 2 units of chamo skinks. (my other saurus unit had 12/23) so no points cold one cav still had 4/7 so again no points.

17/3 victory to the lizardmen

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:48
Game 5 vs Skaven

Combat lord on giant rat (or something) had S5 attacks on the mount S6 on the character and lots of them!

greyseer lv4
caster lv2

BSB character

30+ clan rats + flamethrower war machine
30+ clan rats + flamethrower war machine
30+ clan rats + flamethrower war machine
40+ slaves
40+ slaves
40+ slaves
40+ slaves

9 giant rats (combat lord went here)
warp lightning cannon

Basically 1 very hard hitting combat unit, lots of tarpits and a lv4 caster that threw around the dreaded 13th spell each turn and scorch if there was any extra dice.

Deployment skaven

Left flank he deploys the Warp lightning cannon in the far corner, in front of them he has the 9 rat ogres and the combat lord, they are deployed 6 wide, horde formation!

Then to their right he has his units of clan rats and slaves one after the other, slaves, clan rats, slaves, clan rats... 1 unit of clan rats stays behind all the others along with a unit of slaves, the clan rat unit contains the greyseer. He is anticipating cogitation and wants to stay out of its range.

My deployment.
From left to right I have 2 units of chamo skinks, then saurus, templeguard, saurus, salamanders, cold one cav. I am fairly tightly packed to make sure I can get bironas timewarp on my entire army.... aaah what a lovely spell.

My last unit of chamo skinks was deployed in the center in front of my left saurus unit, I wanted to make sure I can take out those flame throwers before they can fire on my saurus units, S5 templates aren't nice at all.

Lizardmen turn 1.
I win the turn to go first (seems like every game this tournament) and choose to take it.

Everything moves up as much as possible while still maintaining no more than 12" from my slann. I cast bironas timewarp on a 30, my opponent scrolls it.

On the left 1 unit of skinks stays hidden behind a hill while the other moves in to fire a good 16 poison shots at the rat ogre unit, they take a good 4 wounds.

My salamanders move towards the center, get a few slave kills with their flame throwers but nothing special (2pt slave kills hooray)

Skaven turn 1.
The rat ogres move up as much as possible, they are deployed very far from the action with my blocks towards the center right while his unit is at the far left so not much there except my skinks and salamanders in the center.

His slaves (3 units in the front) all move up as do 2 units of clan rats while 1 unit of slaves and a unit of clan rats remain behind to protect the lv4 mage.

The mage gets into range of my saurus block and surprisingly casts the dreaded 13th, he casts it on exactly 25 roll. I have 6 DD so really want to dispel it with dice but just feel I cannot risk it, I use my only dispel scroll, its a diadam but I forgot so it worked as just a dispel scroll. My 6 DD then dispelled his scorch spell. Nothing done with magic for either of us but both have now expended our scrolls.

the warp lightning cannon fires on my unit of saurus but only hits 2, fails to kill any.

On the left my unit of chamo skinks that fired on the rat ogres is charged by a unit of slaves, I flee and make it away.

A second unit of chamo skinks towards the center right is also charged by a unit of slaves, they also flee.

Lizardmen turn 2.
I move up a little more but maintain decent distances from the enemy to ensure I am not charged, I then cast bironas timewarp again on the higher level, this time getting it through with IF however no one is in los to pass the miscast onto so it just disappears.

My salamanders in the center fire on some more slaves and clan rats, getting decent hits and killing a good 50 points worth of slaves and rats (amazing I know)

My chamo skinks on the left still stay hidden behind the hill.

Skaven turn 2.

The unit of rat ogres moves up as far as possible turning towards the center where all the action is. (this is great as it makes a hole between the table edge and the ogres for my skinks to slip past either to shoot them in the back or to to head towards the WLC)

the clan rats and slaves move up again, we started fairly far away with his units deployed more to the center and mine towards the center right.

Shooting sees the WLC misfire and destroy itself, well that is nice for me.

Not much in the shooting phase, magic sees his greyseer attempt the 13th again, luckily it fails, which was nice since I only had 3DD! this phase, it was range of my slann this time round so his 6s where negated, I don't think he actually rolled any this time, just poor rolling so I was saved.

Lizardmen turn 3.

With bironas timewarp cast on pretty much my whole army it is time to go to action!

My saurus cold one cav charge waaay across the field, they charge a unit of clanrats, destroy them easily with their 21 S5 attacks + S4 cold one attacks, I fail to restrain and run off the table.

My right most saurus unit charges a unit of slaves and deals a good amount of damage there but they are stubborn as they started with about 7 ranks so they hold.

My temple guard and other saurus unit move with my TG heading towards the center and the saurus heading towards the cold ones more towards the center right of the field. I don't want them near the rat ogres.

In the shooting phase my chamo skinks jump through the hole between the board edge and the rat ogres and shoot them in the back for another 4 or so wounds.

My salamanders can't really decide where to go so in the end they go to help kill the rag ogres, they march 20" out of the rat ogres charge arc by going to the far left of the board, shooting does a few wounds to them as well. (though they are far from the best target for the salamanders. At least they are out of harms way.

Skaven turn 3.
My opponent has no real counter charges that can be made so moves around to get better positions for later turns, turning units into advantages angles.

He attempts the 13th on all his 5 dice but fails due to cogitation. At this point he has some nasty shooting at least, 1 of the flame throwers fires into a combat between the slaves and the saurus, it his 18 times 16 of which hit my saurus! ouch! I lose about 8.

A unit of jezzails joins the combat against the saurus fighting the slaves, they charge the rear but I still have bironas timewarp on so they basically just add CR to my side.
I win combat but the slaves are still stubborn.

The combat lord jumps out of the rat ogre unit to give a better charge arch so I cannot keep running away with my skinks and salamanders, it is the salamanders he really wants.


Lizardmen turn 4, I hide my salamanders behind the hill, just getting it out of the charge arc of both the ogres and the combat hero, though this will be the last turn I can hide.

My skinks continue to fire on the backs of the ogres, dropping another 2 ogres this turn! damn these guys are amazing!(the 100pt unit is going to kill one woth 400!)

My cavalry come back onto the table

Another unit of my saurus charge clanrats this time, wow real rats rather than just slaves, This at the center of the table, I win but the rats hold due to steadfast.

I have speed of light cast as the AOE version so the rats really aren't going to do much, I have ws10 init10 t4 saurus against ws3-4 s3 rats. Not much can go wrong here.

My salamanders are really cornered now, the rat ogres to their front and the combat lord to their flank. I move forward to 1" from the rat ogres, this takes me out of the charge arc of the combat lord, so no flank charge and less attacks at least, I have a chance, though with ld6 its not easy.

my skinks fire poison on the rat ogres again and my salamanders flame, the unit is now down to 2 rat ogres, 1 of which is down to 1 wound and the champ who is down to 1 wound also! unit almost dead!

in my magic phase my slann has positioned itself nicely, it is within casting distance of everything but the salamanders (shame) and can flank charge a unit of clan rats the following turn AND it is within 24" of the greyseer for cogitation.

I cast some bironas and speed of light as usual to speed up combats.

My saurus fighting the slaves win yet again but STILL are stuck due to steadfast, they are down to 1 rank themselves due to all the flamethrower shots that keep coming their way.

Skaven turn 4
The rat ogres charge my salamanders, they win but I hold.

The combat lord turns around to come kill some saurus.

the grey seer attempts a 13th but fails.

some jezzails enter the table and fire on my cold one cav but fail to kill any.

Lizards turn 5. My cold ones charge the jezzails to my saurus flank that have been fighting the slaves for many a turn, together they finally kill the slaves and the jezzails. I overrun into a clanrat unit. MY TG flanks this same unit

My 2nd unit of saurus continies to grind down another unit of clanrats, its not looking great for them as they are down to about 8 models with the champ dead and the skaven combat lord looking their way.

My templeguard charge the flank of a slave unit, with birona and speed of lights cast all round yet again (well SOL with AOE and birona on the TG) I manage to kill enough in 1 round with the TG and the saurus to kill the unit.

I overrun with my TG first, which was a mistake so I hit my saurus unit, they overrun into a flame thrower war machine just in front of the greyseers unit.

Skaven turn 5.

The rat ogres finnish off my salamanders and run off the table, which was a shame since it only had 5 wounds left, could have missiled it to death the following turn for full points.

The ogre lord finally makes it into combat on this turn, it fights some saurus but with ws10 I don't lose too many to its 10 or so attacks from the lord and mount, I do 1 wound back which it fails to save.

my saurus fighting the flamethrower destroy it and overun into the greyseer unit.

In the magic phase the skaven player gets a good roll on the winds of magic, he casts the 13th on a low value on my cold ones, I dispel with all my dice 7 iirc, he then has enough for 1 more spell, he could either fly his seer out of the unit or do the skaven version of the penumbral pendulum, init test or d6 wounds.

He decides to go for the risky spell, my slann gets a look out sir and moves away.

Over the final turn his combat lord manages to kill my saurus block netting him some much needed points while my saurus with max buffs on finnishes off the skaven clan rats, both these happen on the skavens turn 6.

Game ends with my losing a saurus unit, my salamanders and 2 skink units, my opponent lost most of his army apart from his combat lord and half his rat ogres.

I won a solid 17/3 victory

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 14:50
Overall I came 3rd with my results of:
0/20
20/20
20/20
17/20
17/20

The tournament was won by the deamons of chaos player with a perfect streak and 2nd place went to someone with 77-78 points (over my 74)

frapermax
18-10-2010, 15:55
Thank you for the reports. They made very good reading. Congratulations on a good result. I like the way you use light magic. It seems very effective in countering the main Lizard weaknesses, speed and Initiative.

I have a question about your list:
Can a Slann BSB take a magical banner AND magic items? Most armies I know can't, that's why I ask.
Another thing I'm not sure about is the cavalry failing to restrain. Couldn't you just reform after winning combat?
keep up the great work
fpm

Malorian
18-10-2010, 16:10
Great showing for the lizardmen.

Those surprise long charges can be a kick in the butt, and one of the worst features of eigth. I know they are rare but they can completely put a game on its head.

Interesting that the deamon won every game perfectly... he had a good list but by no means perfect.


Anyway, thank you for the reports :)

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 18:40
Thank you for the reports. They made very good reading. Congratulations on a good result. I like the way you use light magic. It seems very effective in countering the main Lizard weaknesses, speed and Initiative.

I have a question about your list:
Can a Slann BSB take a magical banner AND magic items? Most armies I know can't, that's why I ask.
Another thing I'm not sure about is the cavalry failing to restrain. Couldn't you just reform after winning combat?
keep up the great work
fpm

Yes the slaanesh can take anything other than magical shields, if it could I would throw in the 5pt shield charmed shield I think it is called that lets you ignore the first hit (cannon) on a 2+, but hei, I guess we just have to settle for the 2+ look out sir roll, our 5 wounds and the 4+ ward.

It took me a few games to get used to the lore of light, I had never used it before, basically casting bironas timewarp on the AOE level with a casting level of 24 was risky though it was amazing when it was on. Generally I only did that in the first turns to get myself into CC, after that I cast the speed of light on everyone and birona on the key unit.

It has a lot of amazing spells, the one that lets you auto pass any ld test is really amazing!

Vsurma
18-10-2010, 18:40
Great showing for the lizardmen.

Those surprise long charges can be a kick in the butt, and one of the worst features of eigth. I know they are rare but they can completely put a game on its head.

Interesting that the deamon won every game perfectly... he had a good list but by no means perfect.


Anyway, thank you for the reports :)

Yea, I figured with more units I could just flank it but it was not to be.

freddieyu
19-10-2010, 09:50
Congratulations!

Besides the Doc and your lizards, which other army types did quite well, also was there any perceived "weak" army that did good too?

Vsurma
19-10-2010, 09:56
Well the tables weren't really arranged with best in one area so I am not really sure, I was busy playing my own games.

There was a beastman player that beat a DOC army and a VC army so that was quite well done.

freddieyu
19-10-2010, 14:47
Well the tables weren't really arranged with best in one area so I am not really sure, I was busy playing my own games.

There was a beastman player that beat a DOC army and a VC army so that was quite well done.

Ah parity is much better in 8th ed....I do think however early on the forces of disorder have the slight advantage when it comes to competitiveness...

kaintxu
19-10-2010, 15:36
I lost the game 20/0
That 21" charge was somewhat surprising, the letters weren't even looking in that direction, they just barely could see the skinks and the TG out of the corner of their charge arc and with the way charges work now and wheeling being essentially free the last letters in the unit moved about 30" during that charge. ouch!]

Gratz on coming 3rd, a pitty you lost against that Daemon player, you should of had won hahahah, well, hope you win the next one :D

Could you tell me which page its says about wheeling being free, and how this works, i know i read something about it but last tourney we had a big argument about it and I could prove it.

Could you also explain it please?

BTW was the daemon list really that hard to win all 5 for 100 points? i mean, i don't see anything especial on it

Vsurma
19-10-2010, 16:46
P20 under moving charges, charges can move an unlimited amount after it has been determined they are in charge range.

Malorian
19-10-2010, 16:49
P20 under moving charges, charges can move an unlimited amount after it has been determined they are in charge range.

Yup, the only thing is that you only get one wheel.


Personally I think this is a great rule that stopped all the issues of having to carefully wheel to make sure you could make it... only to find out you couldn't and have to guess where your unit should have been...

Does make for some 'interesting' charges though ;)

Vsurma
19-10-2010, 16:50
Well, 1 wheel to get into CC, a free wheel after to close the gap.

Glen_Savet
19-10-2010, 18:01
The only thing I want to say is that the fear dagger won't really do anything for the slann if he is in a block of temple guard. Only models in base contact have to take fear checks, and it won't in fact give fear to the unit.

EDIT: I do appreciate that you used Cold One Cavalry to such good effect; they're still some of my favorite models in the range.

russellmoo
19-10-2010, 19:05
Those dwarf players need new dispel dice-

Nicely done, these battle reports definitely capture what makes the lizardmen army such a great army and also highlights why I think they are currently the top army now-

They can do everything and have very versatile choices- they have good template attacks, good skirmishers, good cavalry, tough as nails elites, and very powerful magic- all of which were brought in your list-

Vsurma
19-10-2010, 20:04
No more fear dagger..... that is so sad, after all the fun it provided.

Guess I need to find me a new toy.

Yea I really liked the cold one cav, I had never tried them in this edition before, I figured they where weak, but I do prefer them over the steg which is a cannon magnet.

I rather lose 1 cold one to a cannon shot rather than an entire steg.
Anyway, the Huanchi banner really helped there.

The down side of the unit in my list was I always had to deploy them before my opponent deployed their anti knight unit, organ guns, flamers etc...

A few more units on my side would make their use easier. I also couldn't really find any great target with them when fighting the dwarves but I think I was just being greedy and trying to get into CC too fast, nothing wrong with running around for 3-4 turns in order to get a flank charge.

Just seems dangerous for them to be out of CC for so long.

The dwarves really did let a lot of spells through, they still had an insane amount of dispel dice but were too greedy with their dispels. Trying to dispel everything means you might end up taking some spells in. Best to let something through.

SevenSins
19-10-2010, 21:36
very nice reps, thanks for sharing :)

Also you now have me even more sold on lore of light (I just love those army wide buffs)

kaintxu
19-10-2010, 23:00
P20 under moving charges, charges can move an unlimited amount after it has been determined they are in charge range.

Yep but charge range means that you need to take into account wheeling movement plus then the diference between you 2 right? or you just measure from your unit to the enemy unit and thats it? not even think of the wheeling movement

Vsurma
20-10-2010, 07:00
Measure shortest distance=done

That has been our interpretation at least.

Malorian
20-10-2010, 16:07
Yep but charge range means that you need to take into account wheeling movement plus then the diference between you 2 right? or you just measure from your unit to the enemy unit and thats it? not even think of the wheeling movement

As far as movement distance is concerned, all that matters is the initial shortest distance between the units.

After that you are just making sure you can make contact with only 1 wheel.


(The way you are thinking is how it was done last edition.)

GodlessM
21-10-2010, 13:35
That Skaven player didn't seem to know his army very well or else he was cheating as the Dreaded 13th only effects infantry.

Vsurma
21-10-2010, 16:07
Well I certainly didn't know that, but odds are just as good that I just forgot what he cast it on, possible a saurus unit instead, that or he made a mistake, either way it didn't go off.

I took pics of all the other battles so it was easier to write those reports, somehow I forgot to do so in the last game.

My camera was busy taking pics of the nightfight 40k table with only streetlamps on the table as lighting and a smoke machine providing a wicked atmosphere.

kaintxu
22-10-2010, 02:32
Any chances you guys, if you knwo where it is, could tell me exactly on which pages and what to real to prove it? since i guess is not just stuff of one page

Vsurma
22-10-2010, 05:58
Not really sure what you mean with your question there.

Vsurma
23-10-2010, 13:25
http://ordoaboensis.net/liitteet/tkufanatic2010_whfb_tulokset.html

A link to the results of the tournament. Apparently 2nd place went to an O&G army which is fairly surprising.

Eta
24-10-2010, 11:06
Any chances you guys, if you knwo where it is, could tell me exactly on which pages and what to real to prove it? since i guess is not just stuff of one page

P.19 under "Calculating charge range" and then p.20 "Moving chargers".

Greetings
Eta