PDA

View Full Version : No Magic Tactics



Dark_Mage99
18-10-2010, 21:21
Have any of you had success without mages in the new edition?

On the one hand, it seems okay because you still get the dice. On the other, a Level 4 can make such a difference that I don't see you being able to dispel much if he has one...

Malorian
18-10-2010, 21:25
Well in one game my only magic came from a scarvet with the fireball ring... does that count?

Seemed to be all I needed, but then again that was in a smaller game.

Dark_Mage99
18-10-2010, 21:38
I suppose the benefit of the new bound spell rules = more chance to have a good magic attack without wizards.

They can compensate somewhat for the lack of spellcasters in your turn, but what about defence?

Malorian
18-10-2010, 22:24
Not taking any magic defense really is putting a lot on the line.

Magic is so wild now with:
-random amount of power dice
-random dispel dice
-super spells that could win the game
-powerscrolls that make these spells happen

So I think you could make a case for not taking a wizard for defense since 'he's going to use a powerscroll anyway' and really you can get a lot of models for the cost of a lvl 4 wizard.

I really played a lot of no-magic lists in 7th, but in 8th I've always had some form of magic.

Maybe I'll have to put my own theories to the test and see how it goes ;)

Putty
19-10-2010, 00:54
Does Arch Lector & Warrior Priest count as mages?

My Empire list runs both but no actual level magic caster.

I do use them primarily as staple dis-spell dice generators and for some soft yet useful magic.

But yeah, when you get hit by a power-scroll it doesn't matter if you have 100 dis-spell dice. :shifty:

Dreadgrass
19-10-2010, 02:09
It depends on the army. Empire with Priests (as above) or Orcs with Spirit totem, Dwarves... pretty much anyone who can tip the dice-balance in their favour without relying on the +4 to dispel can pull it off fairly well.

Sandals
19-10-2010, 10:12
personally I would always take a mage for a Dispel Scroll, even if it is a Level 1. There are so many nasty spells out there that a DS is almost mandatory now a days. I know that a lot of times they are going to go off with IF, but that should do some sort of damage to your opponant too, and for that time he doesn't get double 6's you will need a scroll.

Malorian
19-10-2010, 15:24
I was thinking last night that actually I've done a lot of games without magic... because that's all my dwarfs can do! :D

Evil Hypnotist
20-10-2010, 09:23
My regular opponent plays High Elves and has decided not to bother with magic users anymore, he thinks the points spent on troops makes more of an impact. If a high magic-using army can't be bothered I think it speaks volumes about the impact of magic in 8th.

My own thoughts are that mages are obviosuly nerfed from when I used to play 4th and 5th ed. where a powerful magic user could dominate the game. However, even if you can't do a huge amount in a battle it's still a whole part of the game I don't want to be missing out on, even if my Khorne WoC army seems to do very well without a sorceror in tow.

Scythe
20-10-2010, 12:42
Like said, it really depends on army. Besides the options of affecting the dice pools without wizards, like Empire, Dwarfs and Orcs tend to have, the durability of an army plays a large part as well to me. Even a basic fireball is going to hurt a unit of WEs a lot more than that unit of Clanrats. Fragile elite armies, liike elves, generally need magic defense more than horde armies.

SilasOfTheLambs
20-10-2010, 17:05
I'm taking a no-wizard list to a tournament coming up here, but it does contain 2 priests and an arch lector on a war altar (as described above). Somebody who is stuck with only their winds of magic dispel dice, no scroll, and no dispelling modifier is going to struggle mightily to keep up with some of the really 'ard stuff out there.

Against many types of wizards (high elf archmages, grey seers, empire wizards), it's possible to assassinate them with a throwaway unit of cheap fast cav... just hit their bunker in the face, allocate all your attacks on the wizard, hope like hell she dies and then watch your cav break and run. This is harder to do to chaos warriors and vamps, but the rewards are correspondingly greater due to the really, really high point cost of those models. Lone wizards (Chaos sorcerors on discs, etc) can sometimes be shot. Magic defense isn't just wizards, but wizards are the easiest and most reliable way to do it.

Scythe
21-10-2010, 07:04
I'm taking a no-wizard list to a tournament coming up here, but it does contain 2 priests and an arch lector on a war altar (as described above). Somebody who is stuck with only their winds of magic dispel dice, no scroll, and no dispelling modifier is going to struggle mightily to keep up with some of the really 'ard stuff out there.


True, though initiative / always strike first on elven bunkers can be a pain for your fast cavalry. Ideally, you also have a decent initiative score on your fast cavalry, or use something like a cheap mounted hero to do the job. The heroes problem is his vulnerability to challenges from a unit champion though.

If the wizard is in small bunker units, like 10-12 missile troops or similar, it might be worth a shot to try to annihalate the entire unit with shooting if you have enough firepower within range.