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Death Whisper
19-10-2010, 02:44
We all know the Eldar are a dying race, with replenishment of numbers unequal to the attrition of constant galactic warfare.

We also know they have a phase of life (path) completely dedicated to war who are supposed to do all the fighting. If a given Craftworld's Aspect Warrior numbers are unequal to a task their seers deem necessary for survival, what would be their preferred course of action?

Are they more likely to swallow their pride and raise their own ancestors from their afterlife as soldiers, or would they let pride prevent them from doing so and instead sacrifice civilians as Guardians until they are no longer able to do so?

starlight
19-10-2010, 03:03
We all know the Eldar are a dying race, with replenishment of numbers unequal to the attrition of constant galactic warfare.

No we don't...we are *told* this, and many accept it...but that doesn't mean it's *true*.



We also know they have a phase of life (path) completely dedicated to war who are supposed to do all the fighting. If a given Craftworld's Aspect Warrior numbers are unequal to a task their seers deem necessary for survival, what would be their preferred course of action?

Not they don't...they can *choose* that path, but nothing I've read says they *must* choose that Path. Guardians are effectively Eldar Militia who fill military roles as needed.



Are they more likely to swallow their pride and raise their own ancestors from their afterlife as soldiers, or would they let pride prevent them from doing so and instead sacrifice civilians as Guardians until they are no longer able to do so?

Each Craftworld has it's own traditions and approaches to battle depending on the level of the threat.


Further reading. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eldar)

SgtTaters
19-10-2010, 03:18
Saim Hann fields jetbike warriors that seem to operate outside of the path

Ulthwe has a weird non-Warrior path Black Guardian corps, lead by Warlocks

Alaitoc, despite rigid path adherence, makes great use of non-path outcasts

Biel Tann is big into the warrior path so they should have little need for guardians

Iyanden is the ghost army.


Really only one craftworld seems to focus on using aspect warriors, the rest do their own thing with non warrior path soldiers. That is pretty odd.

Death Whisper
19-10-2010, 03:20
No we don't...we are *told* this, and many accept it...but that doesn't mean it's *true*.

Well, that distinction is kind of (completely) meaningless, since we are "told" all of the fluff.


Not they don't...they can *choose* that path, but nothing I've read says they *must* choose that Path. Guardians are effectively Eldar Militia who fill military roles as needed.

What are you saying? They don't have a Warrior Path, but they can choose it? I referred to an Craftworld Eldar Path as a phase of life, because it isn't really like a career, since the Path calls to them, rather than them choosing it.

Guardians are those Eldar who are needed as soldiers but are not on the Path of the Warrior. The only reason they would be needed as soldiers would be if the professional (on the Path of the Warrior) soldiers are not equal to the task, which would most often be because of insufficient numbers.


Each Craftworld has it's own traditions and approaches to battle depending on the level of the threat.

That was kind of what I was expecting; that each Craftworld would have their own idiosyncrasies. However, from the fluff I've seen so far, it looks like Wraith-forces are used only after the population is too depleted to raise enough "conventional" forces.

I guess it seems more tragic when a supposedly arrogant race's downfall is its pride. IE, refuse to raise undead soldiers, use civilians instead until that fails too, and are forced to raise undead soldiers anyway.

starlight
19-10-2010, 03:34
Well, that distinction is kind of (completely) meaningless, since we are "told" all of the fluff.

And we are told that all of the background is both true...and a lie... Whatever GW writes is *canon*...even when it conflicts with other things it has written... :shifty:



What are you saying? They don't have a Warrior Path, but they can choose it? I referred to an Craftworld Eldar Path as a phase of life, because it isn't really like a career, since the Path calls to them, rather than them choosing it.

They have it, but not all choose it/follow it or get to it before they die.



Guardians are those Eldar who are needed as soldiers but are not on the Path of the Warrior. The only reason they would be needed as soldiers would be if the professional (on the Path of the Warrior) soldiers are not equal to the task, which would most often be because of insufficient numbers.

Most often, but not always.



That was kind of what I was expecting; that each Craftworld would have their own idiosyncrasies. However, from the fluff I've seen so far, it looks like Wraith-forces are used only after the population is too depleted to raise enough "conventional" forces.

I guess it seems more tragic when a supposedly arrogant race's downfall is its pride. IE, refuse to raise undead soldiers, use civilians instead until that fails too, and are forced to raise undead soldiers anyway.

That's the way they were written...to be tragic. However, I think it's far from tragic when a race arrogantly chooses to be hedonistic and has to pay a price. Tragedy would be the innocents who paid the same price...

eldargal
19-10-2010, 04:54
At least one Craftworld has rejected the notion that they are a dying race and have dedicated themselves to restoring the Eldar Empire. I am speaking of Biel-Tan.
It is my personaly opinion that the dying race stuff is just trauma and guilt over the Eldar causing one of the greatest catastrophes in the galaxies history and wiping out the majority of their species. It is not an objective fact that they are dying, merely a perception that many Craftworlds share. The fact is there are millions to billions of Eldar left, certainly a big enough gene pool to carry on, even if it represents only one percent or less of the special at its height.

Death Whisper
19-10-2010, 05:35
I am of the opinion that dying race implies that the Eldar's overall numbers were decreasing over time, regardless of how many of them left there actually are. More of a straight up death rate to new birth rate comparison. Each Craftworld should at least have that data for their own population.

Not sure about why Biel-tan can field so many Aspect Warriors. Is that ever elaborated anywhere?

starlight
19-10-2010, 05:39
More like GW wrote the *dying race* background without much thought about maintaining it over twenty years later...


The background is a backdrop, not a storyline. GW fleshes it out, they don't advance it.

Death Whisper
19-10-2010, 07:06
So, are Guardian horde armies fluffy, or unfluffy? If we're not dying, we can afford to field paper-vested civilians with throwing star submachineguns right? ;)

The original post was really a question of which option (Guardians or Wraithguard/Wraithlords) a Craftworld would resort to first in a time of need.

It seemed to me they wouldn't use either if they had enough Aspect Warriors to fulfill their survival needs. Though if the situation was bad enough I could see a Craftworld both conscripting Guardians and raising Wraithguard from the Infinity Circuit.

SgtTaters raises an interesting point. What Path do the Saim-hann Wild Riders fall under? Are they technically civilians that can be on any Path, but fight in their Craftworld's traditional manner during times of war? Wouldn't that make them the equivalent of Guardians by technical definition, if not in name?

starlight
19-10-2010, 07:11
So, are Guardian horde armies fluffy, or unfluffy? If we're not dying, we can afford to field paper-vested civilians with throwing star submachineguns right? ;)

Depends on the Craftworld...


The original post was really a question of which option (Guardians or Wraithguard/Wraithlords) a Craftworld would resort to first in a time of need.

In this case, it depends on the Craftworld...


It seemed to me they wouldn't use either if they had enough Aspect Warriors to fulfill their survival needs. Though if the situation was bad enough I could see a Craftworld both conscripting Guardians and raising Wraithguard from the Infinity Circuit.

Depending on the Craftworld...but yes, I agree.


SgtTaters raises an interesting point. What Path do the Saim-hann Wild Riders fall under? Are they technically civilians that can be on any Path, but fight in their Craftworld's traditional manner during times of war? Wouldn't that make them the equivalent of Guardians by technical definition, if not in name?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saim-Hann adds some excellent insight... :)

Lowmans
19-10-2010, 08:15
More like GW wrote the *dying race* background without much thought about maintaining it over twenty years later...


The background is a backdrop, not a storyline. GW fleshes it out, they don't advance it.

If the background doesn't advance then they remain 'dying', surely?

Although, in the Eldar case I guess you could argue it did advance.
Before the introduction of Nids as a proper army Iyanden was a 'normal' craftworld. The introduction of Nids killed 4/5 of the most populous craftworld iirc and changed their fluff to the ghostwarrior army of today.
Still 'dying' though.

tezdal
19-10-2010, 17:57
I think the non-growth of population is so many of the Eldar "young" get lost as the Eldar version of teenagers, wandering the galaxy etc having their souls devoured and other kinds of gribbly stuff. Not so much they don't breed, is that when they do breed their children have to walk a perilous path.

Idaan
19-10-2010, 18:16
I think the non-growth of population is so many of the Eldar "young" get lost as the Eldar version of teenagers, wandering the galaxy etc having their souls devoured and other kinds of gribbly stuff. Not so much they don't breed, is that when they do breed their children have to walk a perilous path.
That's an in-character essay by Kysaduras the Anchorite in 3e codex, and as such it's not meant to be taken as 100% true - same as with Anzion's theory in Ork Codex. There is a problem with this: Kysaduras is writing from the perspective of current 40k (he refers to the Path being long-established and respected tradition). We know that he cannot be 10,000 years old now, as Eldar live for about 1000 years. So the part about youths dying as Outcasts, if true, has to be a relatively new phenomenon, and as such can't be the cause of the Eldar population deteriorating since the Fall. It wouldn't make sense for him to scorn "the kids these days" if his generation behaved in the same way.

Scalebug
19-10-2010, 18:58
Gawd, you Eldar fanbois, stop it! Take of your plastic pointy ears. :p

Eldar is a dying race, it is a part of their concept, have always been! It comes with the territory of being based on tolkienesque elves.

It doesn't mean there will be no Eldar in 8th edition...

As for the OP, I have always read it as mobilising the Guardian corps are preffered to using the Wraith Guard.

starlight
19-10-2010, 19:04
Eldar is a dying race, it is a part of their concept, have always been! It comes with the territory of being based on tolkienesque elves.


Therein lies the quandary... Many thousands of years after The Fall, the Eldar are apparently chugging along *not* dying off... :shifty: Aside from occasional external attacks (Iyanden, etc) the Eldar population is, by all accounts we've seen to date, fairly stable... :shifty:

Idaan
19-10-2010, 19:23
I'm not denying that their population numbers are decreasing. Just that the Outcasts are not the main cause. And that the decrease is not catastrophic - it's more of a cultural decline and general racial fatalism that makes them "dying race".

J-rock
19-10-2010, 19:31
Eldar is a dying race, it is a part of their concept, have always been! It comes with the territory of being based on tolkienesque elves.


Tolkien's elves weren't dying, they left Middle Earth because they recognised their time to lead was over and it was time for Men to rule.

Similarly, the Eldar are a dying race, not because they're all literally dying out, but because they'll never be the galactic superpower they once were.

Col. Tartleton
19-10-2010, 22:33
If you think about it, the Imperium and Eldar are pretty equal. They fell within a few hundred years of each other and they've been chugging on in the shadow of former glory for ten thousand years. Humans breed like vermin. Eldar breed at a more reasonable pace. They're not at risk of going extinct. They're afraid of death because they were Immortal in the days before Slaanesh. Its their spirit that's dying. As the years march on they are losing their culture. The path of the outcast appears to be growing in number. Its a slow death by self asphyxiation.

starlight
19-10-2010, 22:56
Eeenteresting... :)

GreenDracoBob
19-10-2010, 23:09
I'm not denying that their population numbers are decreasing. Just that the Outcasts are not the main cause. And that the decrease is not catastrophic - it's more of a cultural decline and general racial fatalism that makes them "dying race".

This is basically how I see it. Yes, if the Eldar just got to business their population would increase and they'd no longer be a dying race. But they don't want to do that.

This also goes into the various Eldar factions. Exodites and Dark Eldar aren't too worried about this dying race thing, it seems to be a Craftworlder idea.

And why? They hold themselves to be the center of the new Eldar tradition. The old tradition was destroyed with the birth of Slaanesh, most likely never to be seen again. This was the fatal blow to Eldar civilization, and Craftworlders are inheritors of that death, living after it.

The center of their empire gone, they could just settle on the remaining Maiden Worlds and let things be--but they don't want to. They have dedicated themselves as enemies of Chaos, hoping to destroy the aberration they unleashed upon the galaxy. They hope to reclaim their past glory. And there is the problem of these pesky upstarts that sprung up as the Eldar were reeling from their mistake.

So objectively, the Eldar probably aren't "dying," but as a cultural idea, the Craftworlders have claimed it. They are less than and weaker than the height of their Empire. In order to reclaim it, they need every life they currently possess, which each death takes away forever (which was not always the case). They live in a world where the Eldar they believe in are dead, and that by only rigid paths of living can they prevent their final breath.

Death Whisper
20-10-2010, 00:01
The Eldar lived long lives, but they were never immortal, even before the Fall. They just believed that they were immortal because their souls would return to the Warp. Warp predators and the proto-Chaos gods always existed as long as sentient minds did. I guess that reinforces the theme of the Fall being caused by their arrogance in assuming they were the complete masters of the Warp, and completely disregarding the potential dangers of the sentiences existing in it.

I assume a large part of their confidence was due to their creation of the Webway, but I'm a bit confused by how the Webway is strong enough to keep out creatures of the Warp, but the Eldar souls just return to the Warp when they died. Why didn't they just build an Infinity Circuit network into their Webway?

Now that they are dependent on Spirit Stones and their Infinity Circuits, both Exodites and Craftworlders, from hindsight point-of-view, are really no worse off than they were before. Just because they believed their immortal souls were safe in the Warp didn't make it true, and in fact they were probably in greater danger than they are now with their souls guarded by well-armed, defended, and shielded Craftworlds.

GreenDracoBob
20-10-2010, 01:15
Actually, it is not the idea of immortal souls, but immortal souls which can be reincarnated into new physical bodies. Before the development of the Chaos Gods and under the protection of their own gods, Eldar could do so without fear. However, as the Warp began to become more tumultuous, this was more and more dangerous.

This all came to a head when Slaanesh was born: now Eldar souls were not only in great peril in the warp, but were actively hunted down. And no longer was there a presence to protect them. So they protect these souls from the Warp using Spirit Stones and World Spirits, which cannot be reborn physically.

imperial90
20-10-2010, 04:08
1000 years? Says who? Eldrad was alive during the Heresy and he wasnt exactly a whipper snapper even then, how on earth could he have lived as long as he did if Eldar only lived a thousand years?

Death Whisper
20-10-2010, 05:17
Actually, it is not the idea of immortal souls, but immortal souls which can be reincarnated into new physical bodies. Before the development of the Chaos Gods and under the protection of their own gods, Eldar could do so without fear. However, as the Warp began to become more tumultuous, this was more and more dangerous.

This all came to a head when Slaanesh was born: now Eldar souls were not only in great peril in the warp, but were actively hunted down. And no longer was there a presence to protect them. So they protect these souls from the Warp using Spirit Stones and World Spirits, which cannot be reborn physically.

The idea of reincarnation never really made sense to me (Buddhist childhood). How do you distinguish when a "new" soul is generated with a birth, or it is someone that has already lived before? For that matter, you could give birth to someone that in their past life was your parent...

Plus, the Eldar can put their dead souls right now into physical bodies, albeit non-fleshy ones. It makes much more sense if the Eldar saw the Warp as an afterlife prior to the Fall.

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 08:42
A Wraithguard is not exactly what an Eldar would call a new body. They would call it more something like a prison. A stone already is a prison and the infinity circuit is too, but a Wraithguard has nothing in common with a living body either. The soul is still controlling it like in a dream, not seeing the world as normal, but more from a spiritual level.

Iracundus
20-10-2010, 09:21
1000 years? Says who?

2nd edition Eldar Codex, and the relevant section has since been reprinted in the 4th edition Eldar Codex.



Eldar are extremely long lived by Human standards, commonly surviving for over a thousand years before old age overtakes them. p. 3, 4th edition Eldar Codex.

Further supporting this is how the time of the Fall is a legendary myth shrouded time for the Eldar:



The tale of the Fallen Phoenix was mixed up with the other myths of the Fall. Not even the eldar had such long lives. p. 130, Path of the Warrior

imperial90
20-10-2010, 09:25
And Eldrad obviously surviving longer then a thousand years is due to what exactly?

Lord Damocles
20-10-2010, 09:27
And Eldrad obviously surviving longer then a thousand years is due to what exactly?
HH author syndrome?
Main character plot armour?
The warp did it?
He's a Haemonculus?

Hellebore
20-10-2010, 09:35
And Eldrad obviously surviving longer then a thousand years is due to what exactly?

Because this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

is not equivalent to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

EDIT: That is, you cannot claim an outlyer as an example of the average.

Hellebore

imperial90
20-10-2010, 09:41
1000 years is very different to 6000+ years, that would be like one of us living till were 480 years old, thats a little more extreme then comparing human height to gigantism, its not like the person becomes 30 feet tall after all

Hellebore
20-10-2010, 09:46
1000 years is very different to 6000+ years, that would be like one of us living till were 480 years old, thats a little more extreme then comparing human height to gigantism, its not like the person becomes 30 feet tall after all

No, but it doesn't make it any less true. Eldrad's age is not the norm. The norm is explicitly given. Human height and age outlyers are specific to us. Eldar do not have to follow them.

You are saying that because Robert Wadlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pershing_Wadlow) was almost 9 feet tall, all humans should be almost 9 feet tall.

Hellebore

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 09:47
1000 years is very different to 6000+ years, that would be like one of us living till were 480 years old, thats a little more extreme then comparing human height to gigantism, its not like the person becomes 30 feet tall after all
That wasn't the point. The point was, that an extreme long living single dude can not be used to say that all Eldar do live that long. It was not meant as a comparison at all.

There are ways for Eldar to live longer. Vect is another example, he has his own way.
Why should Eldrad not be able to live that long by pure will and usage of warp-power? He is/was the biggest Eldar Psyker after all.
And long-living individuals are not uncommon in the 40k universe either. Just think of the Primarchs. They don't mean that all humans grow that old!

imperial90
20-10-2010, 09:52
I know this is nothing but conjecture, but if his age was so ridiculously outside the average as that it seems like it would be something people would mention. I know Lexicanum isnt the best source by any stretch of the imagination but it says

"They are long-lived by human standards, and most will live more than a thousand years unless they die from accident or disease."

I certainly dont know where they got it from but its there and it would be more compatible with Eldrad being so ridiculously above the average, then just cause

Edit: 4th edition codex says "live for more then a 1000 years before old age overtakes them" I guess it could be interpreted either way, I would still argue though seeing how Eldrad lived for over 10,000 years that a 1000 doesent really qualify as old age for an Eldar

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 10:07
Well, humans "will live more than 80 years unless they die from accident or disease".
Some will get 105, but none will get 480+ either.
So if an Eldar lives at least 1000 years, that could be 1010 or maybe 1100 or 1500, but I won't stretch it to 6000+ just because it says "at least 1000".
Personally I'd imagine an average Eldar having a normal live span between 1200 to 3000 years. And Eldrad is a psyker, a changer of the fate. He can elongate his life probably at will.

38.
20-10-2010, 13:07
CWE fluffwise only field ghost warriors when there is no other option. Guardians are another option. Its not related to arrogance rather then their culture.

enygma7
20-10-2010, 13:22
Concerning the original question: Aspect warriors are like the professional army whilst guardians are like the reserves (TA in the UK). I think they'd quite frequently get called up for any major conflict the craftworld undertakes, partially to support and bulk up the professionals but also to guard bases, operate equipment etc. I don't think the idea that they are only employed as a last resort is correct. It seems likely that the eldar keep a fairly small standing army per head (compared with, say, the imperium) and that guardians are needed to support it - however painful and unpalatable the eldar might find this fact. This is supported by guardians being a troops choice (which implies they are fairly common) and by Biel-Tan being distinctive for using primarily aspect based forces. Wraithguard are called up only in times of dire need when conventional living forces aren't enough for the task.

About the dying race business, I agree that I don't think this directly refers to the eldars numbers (since this could be easily fixed by simply breeding more!). I think its more to give the impression that the eldar are a fallen superpower and are becomming increasingly irrelevant in terms of influence in a galaxy now controlled by younger and more dynamic rising stars.

About eldar lifespan, with a lifespan that long it would seem likely old age is not a common cause of death in eldar. Accidents and war would be a probably cause of death when living such a time period. Also, maybe eldar get heart disease and other lifestyle related problems that kill them off before old age does. So an eldar that eat heathily and avoiding getting themselves killed could live an abnormally long time, the galaxies most powerful psyker even more so (plus I seem to remember farseers don't die of old age but rather turn to crystal eventually).

Shizzbam
20-10-2010, 17:06
Bit of a divergence from all this talk of aspect warriors, but on the matter of Eldar reactions to low numbers - For for a race obsessed with following one particular path to it's completion and also happens to be desperately low on numbers, I've always wondered why Eldar don't have a 'path of parenthood', with the respective parents basically spending all their time making babies and caring for said offspring.

Sounds crude I know, but you'd of thought encouraging the conceiving and care of children would be of great importance in Eldar society as an answer to their low birthrate.

ForgottenLore
20-10-2010, 17:29
they probably do. We only really hear about the combat oriented aspects but they have many many others.

Ratmamahatma
20-10-2010, 17:43
Great read! Thanks all. ;)
As for the ghost warriors - what about these eldar that (live fast,) die young and that are still full of passion for frag? Wouldn't they be allowed to become a wraith guard of the infinite circuit in the same way living eldar are becoming aspect warriors of the craftworld?
EDIT: naturally the craftworld and infinite circuit being one and the same thing...

N0-1_H3r3
20-10-2010, 17:44
2nd edition Eldar Codex, and the relevant section has since been reprinted in the 4th edition Eldar Codex.
Except that a millennium-long lifespan is underselling it. The actual quote is that the Eldar "are extremely long-lived by human standards, commonly surviving over a thousand years before old age overtakes them".

spetswalshe
20-10-2010, 18:51
Since a human psyker managed to live for something like 40,000 years, Eldrad's age doesn't seem like such a big deal. Many CSM have been alive for thousands of years, with 'the warp did it' as the only given reason. Eldrad made the warp his bitch on a regular basis.

I imagine the Wraithguard would get the jobs that an Aspect warrior or Guardian couldn't do effectively; space hulk clearance, zero-gravity business, missions facing extremely heavy fire. However, activating them for something a living Eldar could feasibly do would not be a popular option unless you wanted a reputation as a creepy techno-sorceror. Guardians might not be ideal for hulk clearance, but they could pull it off; Aspects probably have some zero-g training. You'd basically need no other resources available before you woke up Grandad and gave him a wraithcannon. Of course, in a war scenario a Craftworld's resources will get spread very thin very quickly.


As for the ghost warriors - what about these eldar that (live fast,) die young and that are still full of passion for frag? Wouldn't they be allowed to become a wraith guard of the infinite circuit in the same way living eldar are becoming aspect warriors of the craftworld?

Presumably though, the young Eldar wouldn't be any more eager to have their communal afterlife interrupted in order to be torn out of the Circuit and encased in an unfeeling dreadnought and forced to fight again than an older Eldar - and presumably the older Eldar would be more skilled and better able to focus. They're a last resort for a reason; because for an Eldar being wraithguarded is really, really horrible. One can only imagine that a particularly passionate Eldar would find having no real sense of touch, sight, time and so on even more horrible. Look at how crazy a Chaos Space Marine goes; and he wasn't dead to begin with, nor as sensate-y as an Eldar.

Idaan
20-10-2010, 18:54
The Eldar lived long lives, but they were never immortal, even before the Fall. They just believed that they were immortal because their souls would return to the Warp. Warp predators and the proto-Chaos gods always existed as long as sentient minds did. I guess that reinforces the theme of the Fall being caused by their arrogance in assuming they were the complete masters of the Warp, and completely disregarding the potential dangers of the sentiences existing in it. They were immortal before the Fall and/or before Nightbringer contaminated their racial memory during the War in Heaven - whether it's a retcon or they just re-engineered it somehow during the height of their civilisation is beside the point. Their spirits would go into the warp and then be reborn into new bodies - with all of the previous personality and experience going by the "Dawn of the C'tan" - their warriors didn't have to fear death because they'd just be reborn in short time.


I assume a large part of their confidence was due to their creation of the Webway, but I'm a bit confused by how the Webway is strong enough to keep out creatures of the Warp, but the Eldar souls just return to the Warp when they died. Why didn't they just build an Infinity Circuit network into their Webway?The Eternal Matrix which connects all Infinity Circuits and is the cradle in which Ynnead grows is within the Webway.


And Eldrad obviously surviving longer then a thousand years is due to what exactly?Due to him being a Farseer which gives longevity at the cost of turning into wraithbone when old age comes? And to him consciously suppresing this effect until his job would be done?


Sounds crude I know, but you'd of thought encouraging the conceiving and care of children would of been greatly encouraged in Eldar society as an answer to their low birthrate.No need for that really - as shown in "Path of the Warrior", the Eldar are pretty liberated when it comes to sex and childbirth. The problem seems to be more biological in nature, with multiple intercourses required for gestation and their naturally relatively low fertility (though that's very overrated as a cause too - twins or even triplets aren't really uncommon).

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 19:08
The Eternal Matrix which connects all Infinity Circuits and is the cradle in which Ynnead grows is within the Webway.
Got any references to fluff about this Eternal Matrix?

Idaan
20-10-2010, 19:24
The first mention of Ynnead in Codex - Craftworld Eldar, p16. Strangely, that's the only source I could find right now, though Gav Thorpe's notes on "Path of the Warrior" reference it as well:


The Avatar’s throne is connected to the Infinity Circuit of the craftworld, itself a gestalt psychic intelligence of the living and dead Eldar; each is also a sub-network of the massive Eternal Matrix that exists alongside the webway connecting all of the craftworlds together on a faint but potentially powerful psychic level.
(btw, there's some really interesting stuff in there - have a read if you haven't already)

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 20:13
Well, I would read Gav's books if they were in German. My English is good enough for a forum (if not, a plugin can translate a marked word) or my the technical terms at work or to watch movies. But it's actually not good enough to read such detailed and flowery literature. It gets always boring and exhausting to read them. :(
Anyway, thanks for those fluff-parts. I just hoped there would be a bit more than just these two sentences :p

Woodsman
21-10-2010, 10:49
HA I wouldn't call Gavs literature flowery. or detailed:angel:

I was rather disappointed with the book, I'm afraid, but that's a moan for another thread.

Hendarion
21-10-2010, 10:58
Well, I can't speak for Gav, but I tried reading The Inquisition War Omnibus. Had been quite draining and demanding/exhausting for me rather than make me enjoy it, so I stopped. That doesn't mean the story is bad, it just means the effort to comprehend it had been too big. :/