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Gen.Steiner
20-10-2010, 06:52
Hello, denizens of the WFB Army List forum! I bring to you a new and interesting offering - an army list made for a campaign, in which there are rules and restrictions on starting force size and so on and so forth.

Here are the initial restrictions: 1 Hero with no magical items (but bloodline powers and Gifts of Chaos up to 50pts are allowed), and 500 points of Core troops with no magical banners.

I rolled a Hamlet for my starting territory, which gave me an extra 200 points of Core troops (hurray), so my starting army now looks like this:

The D'Arque Expedition:

Joanna D'Arque, Vampire noble, with:
Walking Death and Avatar of Death
Total: 145

Legio V: 24 Skeleton Warriors, with:
Spears, light armour, shields; full command.
Total: 236

Legio IV: 20 Skeleton Warriors, with:
Hand weapons, light armour, shields; full command.
Total: 180

Legio III: 20 Skeleton Warriors, with:
Spears, light armour, shields; full command.
Total: 200

The D'Arque Hunt: 5 Dire Wolves, with:
Slavering jaws.
Total: 40

The D'Arque Hounds: 5 Dire Wolves, with:
Slavering jaws.
Total: 40

Grand Total: 696 (841)

What do people think? Is this a reasonable list? There's not much else I could've done, but options include:

A unit of 20 Zombies,
A Corpse Cart (without necromancer),
A four-base Bat Swarm.

Also, what do people think of my Vampire in Heavy Armour with Shield and Hand Weapon who adds +1 Combat Resolution to the nice big block of skellies with spears?

scarvet
20-10-2010, 07:53
I would make Vampire Ethereal (it's 50pts IIRC)

ROCKY
20-10-2010, 13:51
so in other words you have 700points for units correct? take two units of skeletons, take the corpse cart (75pts) and take a unit of 6 dire wolves. vc is dependent on magic, and while i like Scarvet's idea of making him etheral, magical attacks can still hurt him (and there are plenty of units that have these attacks initially such as chaos knights, whight blades, demonic attacks AND warpstone weapons and runes. so yeah. give him avatar of death and dark acolyte. lvl2 for casting purposes. and the avatar of death will either give him additional hws or greatweapon, or 4+armor save and a 6+ward. hope this helps.

frankly in this small of a game i would invest in ghouls.

scarvet
20-10-2010, 15:34
I don't even trust 5+ save....but for the magic route, wouldn't Loremaster in Necromancy better?

ROCKY
20-10-2010, 18:00
I don't even trust 5+ save....but for the magic route, wouldn't Loremaster in Necromancy better?

relatively speaking yes but if you want the 4+armor save and a 6+parry save that is not possible. however your build would work if he took lord of the dead. then he can just sit back and make his units bigger. personally i would take a save but to each his own. another thing you can do is give him dreadknight and the hatred gift. 3S7 attacks on the charge and 3S5 attacks normally all with reroll and a 2+armor save. take a unit of skeletons and a unit of black knights and your set.

thesheriff
20-10-2010, 18:48
Rather do a ghoul army with a Ghoulkin vampire than a skelly one with a combat vamp. Consider, for a start to your illustrious campaign;

Vampire, Ghoulkin = 130
30 Ghouls = 240
30 Ghouls = 240
40 zombies = 160
Corpse cart w. loadstone/balefire = 125
Total = 795

If you had the points, forbidden lore, beasts on a vamp for S4, T5 ghouls would be wrong :p

I assume your campagn will add in more stuff?. Then, i would add the skeiles. But in small points limits, you want with bite and horde durability that will eat into you opponets small army with a hard charecter, loads of attacks and massive wight of numbers.

If you dont want Ghouls, always go for zombies in any army. I would take your army, drop one skelly unit (the 24) and add in with the remaining points 60-ish zombies (in 2 units of 30) for real meat grinder attrrition. and make sure spears are not on them. You want the parry and better save in combat over the extra 5 S3, undead-iniative attacks. plus, your army is dropping 50pts on them. :cries:

it just seems like, atm, you havent got enough hitting power or even durability, which T4 ghouls will sort up very well.

thesheriff

Maoriboy007
20-10-2010, 21:20
With the Current restrictions you are better off using a caster Vampire and keep out of combat with him. MotBA or Dark acolyte/Forbidden Lore with a summon power.

Ghouls are easily the better core choice, take as many as you can. Zombies , as bad as they are are actually a better filler than skellies.

Gen.Steiner
20-10-2010, 21:41
OK, interesting points to consider.

A few things:

1) Why are Ghouls considered so useful? I don't like the current models and the idea of tribal semi-animalistic depraved cannibals fighting as anything other than skirmishers confuses me.

2) What's wrong with Spears? A useful defensive weapon and able to fight in 3 ranks when charged.

3) I didn't take any Zombies as I figured I can always use a combination of Invocation and Raise Dead to create Zombie unit(s) where necessary.

Also, my Vampires are Vampiresses - Lahmia all the way, baby. ;) Even this one, my 'Blood Dragon', is a Lahmian. :D

Renewed thoughts?

Maoriboy007
20-10-2010, 22:24
OK, interesting points to consider.

A few things:

[QUOTE=Gen.Steiner;5066477]1) Why are Ghouls considered so useful? I don't like the current models and the idea of tribal semi-animalistic depraved cannibals fighting as anything other than skirmishers confuses me.
As much as many dislike the concept of ghoul units over skeletons, the sad fact is that 8th has made skeletons somewhat overpriced while ghouls are quite reasonable.
1. 2 poisoned atacks each - much higher offensive potential in comparison to skeletons and fantastic in buildings
2. Defensivly they are roughly equal, skeletons will generally get hit more often with WS 2 and T 4 is roughly equal in value to the skeletons armour, unless you consider yourself lucky enough to make lots of saves.
3.Ghouls higher initiative makes tham far more resistant to the new initiative test or die spells, and allows them to strike on a par with some of the regular initiative troops out there.


2) What's wrong with Spears? A useful defensive weapon and able to fight in 3 ranks when charged.
You are paying extra points for more extra crappy attacks on already overpriced models, not woth the points.


3) I didn't take any Zombies as I figured I can always use a combination of Invocation and Raise Dead to create Zombie unit(s) where necessary.Zombies are a cheap way to fill out your army with extra deployment or banners for blood and glory, thier comparative(!) cheapness makes them better value than skeletons now.


Also, my Vampires are Vampiresses - Lahmia all the way, baby. ;) Even this one, my 'Blood Dragon', is a Lahmian. :DVampire characters shouldn't see combat unless they hae lots of protection. A 4+ armour save isn't enough, make her a Wizard and keep her out of trouble.

Gen.Steiner
20-10-2010, 23:36
OK.

Ghoulswise I can't use them as I don't have any, otherwise interesting points and I will look into getting a small unit of Heresy Ghouls (http://www.heresyminiatures.com/hv020.htm) (as sculpted by Paul Muller), to both try them out and use them in Mordheim.

So! On to the next thing:

Should I drop the two units of Dire Wolves and replace them with 20 Zombies? Or should I just use the Invoc/Raise combination to create speedbumps and flank-chargers as and when. Bear in mind I currently only have 20 Zombie models!

And the next:

If I dropped spears from both Legio V and Legio III, not only does that pose a bit of a WYSIWYG problem, but what do I spend 48 points on? It'd certainly enable me to get a Zombie block plus a Dire Wolf unit, but I'm not sold that losing the fight-in-three-ranks bonus on the defensive is a good thing.

And another thing:

I recently played a 2,250 point game where my Vampire Lady was riding a Barded Nightmare and had no defenses at all - she was carrying the Frostblade. During the course of the game she killed an Ogre Tyrant, a Slaughterer, an Ironguts Champion, a Bull Ogre Champion, a Butcher, and broke an Ironguts unit and a unit of Ogre Bulls, running them both down and taking their standards. She had Infinite Hatred and Beguile, and the formula was simple:

Challenge. Beguile.
Attack first (High I). Re-roll all misses (usually I'd end up with 3-4 hits).
Roll to wound. Re-roll all failed wounds.
Kill enemy character/champion outright.
Win combat, break unit, run it down. Rinse and repeat!

OK, so this unit breakings were lucky, but still - it proved, to me at least, that used carefully a Vampire can have little to no protection and still put out the hurt.

I intend to do a similar thing here - Joanna will stay with the Legio V, and issue challenges when they come into contact with the enemy. It minimises risk and maximises the effectiveness of her armour and parry saves.

scarvet
20-10-2010, 23:49
Wait until Korhil or an Assassin jumps out from not where, and you will see why we are so nervous about how to equip our vampire.

Gen.Steiner
21-10-2010, 06:03
Eh, you'll never eliminate risk, but I see where you're coming from. I just think that, given that I can't take magic items until I get a mine, heavy armour with HW/Sh is the way forwards.

Besides, 50 points of bloodline powers will only get me to Level 2 casting and I'd rather have the +1 Combat Res I think.

scarvet
21-10-2010, 11:18
No, you go Loremaster to know all spells, then process to use all your dice to cast 2~3 spells. IoN wouldn't do as much as Curse of Years against a Horde. Then there is Macbe that makes you strike first, hopefully killing any thread.

Another one would be taking beast and become a monster.

Maoriboy007
21-10-2010, 22:55
Eh, you'll never eliminate risk, but I see where you're coming from. I just think that, given that I can't take magic items until I get a mine, heavy armour with HW/Sh is the way forwards.

Besides, 50 points of bloodline powers will only get me to Level 2 casting and I'd rather have the +1 Combat Res I think.

Scarvet is correct, without the ability your vampire might give you 1-2 wounds in combat, and will then probably be killed forcing your entire army to start crumbling and wasting the +1 CR bloodline anyway.
Forbidden Lore (vampires or beasts) and a raising power is best and just avoid trouble.

Von Lust44
22-10-2010, 02:22
I reckon the +1 cr is a bit of a waste unless you are using it with troops like blood knights.

Esp if you only get 50 points to play with..

But you reckon beguile works well? have not used it yet..