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major soma
20-10-2010, 10:03
I decided to have a bit of fun looking at using Orion in the current edition of Warhammer please feel free to discuss.

Letís talk about Orion you liked the model and went and bought it. Now in 6th edition Orion could actually be used with the Wild riders however the rules changes in 7th meant he could no longer ride with the boyís.

We are now into 8th edition were does this leave Orion? Youíve read his rules and have noticed that he can now be taken with the Wild riders again however this still presents a problem. What problem would that be? Simple just as with the great stag Orion causes the Wild riders to lose their fast cavalry status.

Wow okay that sucks. Yes it does but there are other options available to you. Such as? Well you could take him with his hounds or join him with another forest spirit unit such as Treekin or Dryads. What are the pros and cons with these options then?

Letís look at taking him with his hounds first shall we. The hounds act as extra wounds also they help deal with his combat resolution losses all good so far however con they just like him only have a 5+ ward save which is negated by magical attacks. If anything then this is probably the worst option for Orion.

Putting Orion with Treekin is actually a viable option especially if you have 2 or more ranks Orion is str7 on the charge and he also counts as MI same as the Treekin looking good so far isnít it. However Unbreakable cannot be passed onto the unit however he is the general and any tests will be on his leadership. Orion is actually the weakest link in this unit he has no armour save only a ward save. Still it is a viable choice.

Placing Orion with Dryads is also an option this is probably the least used option but it has its perks as well. Dryads are skirmishers and characters which join benefit from the skirmish rules. Orion brings terror to the dryads as well as a ranged attack which counts as a boltthrower. When the dryads+Orion get into combat he brings a stomp attack as well as his str7\str5 attacks combined with the dryads multiple attacks there is a lot of synergy. Cons they both lose their wards vs magical attacks and Orion canít benefit from Look out sir! [edit just reread his rules no where does it say he is a large target]

Now what does Orion bring to the table? He generates an additional 2 DD, brings a boltthrower to the battlefield and due to his initiative will strike first against most things. He is also ITP, Unbreakable and causes terror not to bad the oh yes when he charges all enemy units within 18Ē must take a panic test. The biggest thing though is that he changes the army composition Wild Riders become core, Glade Guard and scouts become special and Waywatchers canít be taken. So is Orion worth taking? He costs 575 points and depending on what army your fighting a single charge by him could completely collapse either a flank or a centre depending on position. Give it a go and see and if all else fails at least its a nice looking model.

scarvet
20-10-2010, 10:58
I thought Orion is a Monstrous Cavalry?

Haravikk
20-10-2010, 12:05
Personally I don't see why losing fast cavalry is a problem, as with Orion in the unit you're probably not going to be trying so hard for those flank and rear charges, leaving that job to something else (of which there are many choices in the Wood Elf army!).

I dunno though, my main gripe with him is that for 575 points he's not all that durable compared to the two treemen you could get instead.

major soma
20-10-2010, 21:12
The BRB and FAQ describe him as monstrous infantry. I agree that he's not as durable as two tree men but when your facing shaven his higher initiative means that he'll stand a chance against cracks call where as those tree men are dead. It's important to try and see potential strengths in your army. I personally don't use special characters but thought I'd have a little fun.

theunwantedbeing
20-10-2010, 21:23
Orion has always been one of those special character's who was just never really that good and then cost an extra heap of points for no real reason.
He suffers from a similar ailment that the Daemon Prince does, there are other cheaper more useful options to do anything he can do, he just does some of it all in a single package for about 3x the cost with most of the weaknesses.

Move, shoot, move, shoot, move, shoot, charge, win, charge win, maybe shoot again.
He'll be spending turn 1 likely marching into the wood you brought to the game, then jumping out of it.

The extra 2 dispel dice are nice though, as is being a mv9, move-and-shoot, bs5 bolt thrower(although not ignoring armour is very unhelpful).

He's not great, but he is useful...just rediculously pricey.

WizzyWarlock
21-10-2010, 11:17
I think the biggest problem with Orion is his points cost. Unless you're playing with well over 3000pts you're not going to be getting another Lord, especially a Level 4 Spellweaver which we really need these days.

It's a shame as it is a great model, but you have to sacrifice so much to take him and I don't think he's really worth all those points.

Thoras
21-10-2010, 11:20
... but when your facing shaven ...

Just a quick thread ambush to note that this typo is still funny.

Thoras out

major soma
22-10-2010, 19:24
Not a typo :) I really do shave the local skaven :) I really hate auto correctors

Ramius4
22-10-2010, 19:44
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Orion is still considered Unbreakable right? Meaning he can't join non-unbreakable units, regardless of his unit type.

major soma
25-10-2010, 09:25
actually unbreakable characters can join non unbreakable units they just dont give unbreakable to the unit in question and thus when it comes to break tests the character will be left locked in combat.

Kal Taron
25-10-2010, 10:41
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Orion is still considered Unbreakable right? Meaning he can't join non-unbreakable units, regardless of his unit type.

That was the case in 7th but isn't anymore in 8th and IIRC it wasn't in 6th either.

stainawarjar
27-10-2010, 09:12
Just a quick thread ambush to note that this typo is still funny.

Thoras out

Between the neckbeards and the kids, facing shaven players is a rare thing indeed these days.

malphas
19-09-2011, 21:12
Hey guys,

I am actually relatively new to Warhammer Fantasy and I chose first to invest in the Wood Elves. I am going to find a powerful method to use Orion as this is probably the one model I am most interested in. I understand he is not by any means an overly powered character, but I am confident that I can make any army work given the right strategy for the occasion. I would ask that some more experienced tacticians of the Warhammer world aid me in my knowledge of the game.

I am currently at work, so I am working with especially limited knowledge and resources, so excuse if some of this is hard to understand or mispelled, etc.

Part of what I lack is knowledge in other armies ability to ravage my troops. I understand Wood Elves excel in mobility and there seems to be a lot of questionable uses for Orion as general regarding such and his placement among his troop.

My first thought would be to keep Orion solo and to have an Alter Kindred Highborn armed with the Bow of Loren(?- The bow that allows as many shots as attacks- As a side note, can this be done with any unit at a penalty or is it a special rule to shoot as much as you get to attack?) This would give our Alter Kindred 5 attacks(Would the generic magic Item, "Sword of Battle(+1 A)" give him a 6th shot?) Also, if I were to use Hagbane(?) Arrows, could I shoot each (5/6) shots as Hagbane Arrows?

The idea behind these two units is that they both have pretty explosive ranged power, with superb mobility. Both being able to shoot and run with a 9 movement. They can also both hold their own in melee combat and assuming one gets trapped, they should theoretically always be close enough to back the other, giving flanking opportunity to nearby units and a quick assistance to whichever unit is being caught in close combat. The main focus of using these two characters in unison would be to help control and shepherd the enemy army. Having two powerful ranged units being able to maneuver quickly will draw focus and under less risky endeavors, capitalizing on their melee capabilities as well.

My biggest concerns with this are primarily not knowing what another army can do to counter my strategy, not knowing if setting those characters up like that is legal to the warhammer rules. I understand I would need a larger army to incorperate both characters and I haven't discussed any mass of the army, but I would likely be trying to take advantage of the small, useful tools offered in these 9 movement solo ranged models to manipulate enemy movement and to help capitalize on the perfect attack.

Any opinions or tips or help regarding rules offered by you guys is greatly appreciated as I really don't know too well what I am getting in to.

Also, if you like the idea with Orion and the Alter, if you have ideas as far as other units to incorperate, I am very interested in what you have to say.

Thank you all for your help!

popisdead
23-09-2011, 20:39
Why couldn't Orion join Wild Riders in 7th? AFAIK the issue was he had 6 wounds making him a target for shooting but he could still join the unit. Same with 8th ed. he can join units.

Don't take him unless you are playing a fluff game you know you are going to loose. For nearly 600 points he won't do anything pivotal in the game. But he is Orion so you get that and honestly if you just want to play some fun games go for it. He would be better for a Sethayla army as he's so mobile.

I would not join him to Treekin as they are almost half his speed meaning my opponent has twice the time to kill him with,.. anything.

In 8th ed you can attach Unbreakable characters to units. In this case he will crumble and you will flee.

If you are worried about Cracks Call on your Treeman make sure he's in combat or just keep a scroll or dice handy to dispell that spell.

I would just take advantage of terrain, mobilty and probably dryad screens to help him out. As for his Bolt Thrower ability, just try to get Amber Spear.

I do love the fluff, I love the story from the 4th ed book, the Mark Gibbons art is nothing short of AMAZING-AND-HIRE-MARK-GIBBONS-BACK-YOU-****-GW-MANAGERS, and the model right now is very nice. I plan to start running him but i know it will not be more than fun.

enyoss
23-09-2011, 23:54
Just a quick thread ambush to note that this typo is still funny.

Thoras out

Gives you a chance against cracks, apparently. I always found that it helped.

cyberspite
24-09-2011, 03:11
@malphas,

first up, having as many shots as you have attacks is specific to the bow of loren so only a character with the bow gets to do this.

As to the sword of battle I would say no, as this would only help when wielding the sword in combat. There may be some people who disagree, but I'd rather not get into all that! An item like the helm of the hunt would give you an extra shot though.

I don't see why you couldn't shoot all the shots as hagbane arrows, AFAIK only the hail of doom arrow ignores the effects of a magic bow. Hagbane arrows aren't really all that great though, unless you were up against ogres or other multi-wound models it would just be a waste as you have to cause an initial wound in the first place to get the effects most things would be dead already. The usual combo with the bow of loren would be arcane bodkins for taking down heavy armour.

Also, it's probably worth mentioning you would need some sort of armour or ward save on the alter highborn if you expect him to last more than a turn in combat against any unit by himself. Orion on the other hand, needs to get stuck in as quickly as possible, and his bow is more an added bonus than his main strength.

OT, Orion would be worth it just to field a full wildrider army, for full-on peasant trampling goodness! :evilgrin:

Turtleking
30-09-2011, 02:30
I love Orion, but can't see using him for any real purpose. He costs the same amount of 300 Skaven slaves!

I would love to see a wildrider army, but once again don't think its very good.

popisdead
30-09-2011, 21:52
I love Orion, but can't see using him for any real purpose. He costs the same amount of 300 Skaven slaves!

There isn't any sense to compare Orion to 300 Skaven Slaves. First we Skaven Slaves are massively under pointed when you can fill out your core with three blocks of 100 steadfast troops. Second we know Orion is 6 years old and hugely overpointed. If you go down the path of comparing Slaves,... forever will it dominate you.

papabearshane
30-09-2011, 21:56
There isn't any sense to compare Orion to 300 Skaven Slaves. First we Skaven Slaves are massively under pointed when you can fill out your core with three blocks of 100 steadfast troops. Second we know Orion is 6 years old and hugely overpointed. If you go down the path of comparing Slaves,... forever will it dominate you.

????? Points not compairing ;)