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Herne the hunter
20-10-2010, 10:10
For the past few days I've been reading up on abhumans and mutations such as ratlings, ogryns and beastmen. This led me to thinking; are humans more prone to mutation than the other races?

Why do we not see Eldar mutations? Are grots and snots abOrks? If a mutant Tyranid emerges from the spawning pool, would the Hive Mind give it a chance to see what it could do or would it be instantly reabsorbed on the grounds that it wasn't what was intended?

Lord Damocles
20-10-2010, 10:17
'All Orks evidence a wide variety of physical forms. Morphologically unstable, possible result of unchecked mutation.'
Rulebook (3rd ed.), pg.117

Shinzui
20-10-2010, 10:19
Its more that the humans live in poor conditions that promote mutations but I don't think their prone any more than other races.

ashendant
20-10-2010, 10:20
For the past few days I've been reading up on abhumans and mutations such as ratlings, ogryns and beastmen. This led me to thinking; are humans more prone to mutation than the other races?

Why do we not see Eldar mutations? Are grots and snots abOrks? If a mutant Tyranid emerges from the spawning pool, would the Hive Mind give it a chance to see what it could do or would it be instantly reabsorbed on the grounds that it wasn't what was intended?

the tyrannid always experience with mutations, if they are successful in the battlefield they substitute it's predecessor, if they are not, they are saved in the hive mind databanks(wherever that is), for later attempts to see if they are successful in different situations

I think Ork are immune to mutations since their genes seems to be heavily controlled by those plant things in their blood

Eldar mutations i don't know.

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 10:27
Why do we not see Eldar mutations?
Because they have quite stable genes as far as I know. Not having troubles with cancer either. Chaos would be able to change them though ;)


Are grots and snots abOrks?
The other way round. Orks and Grots are a creation of the Snots which are a creation of the Old Ones. Snots are probably more or less stable, Orks and Squigs though have various instabilities which mutate to stuff like Squiggoths. Although this are not really mutations, but a better word probably is 'evolution'.
Kinda like Kroot, though these are actively unstable.

MagosHereticus
20-10-2010, 10:29
not sure how to answer 'cause 40k runs on 50s scifi biology

Lord Damocles
20-10-2010, 10:30
Orks and Grots are a creation of the Snots which are a creation of the Old Ones.
According to one variation of an Ork legend...

Hendarion
20-10-2010, 10:32
True ^^
It could have been Gork and Mork too :p

Scalebug
20-10-2010, 10:45
Ork mutants are shunned as "un-Orky", but not burnt at the stake as humans tend to be. They hang around on the outskirts of Ork society and are sometimes allowed to join up with the Waaghs, otherwise they tendo to be pirates and such and keep to themselves. (1st Ed Ork background books)

Tyrandids are all for mutations. Previous versions of the codex had mutants being a integral part of the list building, but it got dropped in the current more streamlined paradigm of armylists. But background wise they are still there, and the named characters can be considered mutants. While a single mutant Termagant is unlikely to make an impact enough to catch the eyes of the Tyranid evelotionary directors, so to speak, capturing and re-absorbing for evaluation of their genes bigger ones like the Death-Leaper Lictor variant was the objective of the Tyranids during hte Medusa V campaign.

Kroot as a culture seem to not be too apreciating of random mutations, prefering their controlled evolution supervised by the Shapers.

Not really much said about the views of the Tau, but with their strict eugenics when it comes to their castes, one can guess they are not not big fan of mutations. They will probably be less subjected to the Chaos-based mutations, du to their next-to-none warp-presesce, but as for a child born with mutations to a Earth-caste couple working at a leaky chemical plant... dunno, I would say it is not considered to be a Greater Good positive thing...

Eldar... While it doesnt say there are no Eldar Mutants, the tentacle-arm variety doesn't really fit the Space-Elf trope, IMO... RT had a whole chapter in the rulebook dedicated to silly mutantions, and all races had a % chance of rolling on the tables, but it has not really been touched since... One could say that Ulthwe having a larger precence of battle-Psykers because of being closer to the Eye of Terror being a sign of (mental) mutations, but it could also be a cultural thing, more Eldar of that craftworld walking the path of the Warlock because they need them, and they are not really any more psychic in general than other Eldar.

Dark Eldar has Grotesques, Mandrakes and Haemonculi as more or less sub-species of their kind. Born mutants or the product of surgery and drug-use? Blurry lines.

Herne the hunter
20-10-2010, 10:46
What about Tau? Do they let their mutations live on the grounds that they cannot be blamed for their own misfortune or are they expunged for the greater good?

Mr_Rose
20-10-2010, 12:54
What about Tau? Do they let their mutations live on the grounds that they cannot be blamed for their own misfortune or are they expunged for the greater good?
Not really much said about the views of the Tau, but with their strict eugenics when it comes to their castes, one can guess they are not not big fan of mutations. They will probably be less subjected to the Chaos-based mutations, du to their next-to-none warp-presesce, but as for a child born with mutations to a Earth-caste couple working at a leaky chemical plant... dunno, I would say it is not considered to be a Greater Good positive thing...
The short version is: We don't know enough to know for sure.

SolkaTruesilver
20-10-2010, 12:59
The short version is: We don't know enough to know for sure.

But knowing the Tau, they would probably dissect the mutated person to learn as much as possible from it, seeing how they could create technology out of that new knowledge, or maybe finding medical treatment that prevent it.

Silly Tau, using technological research to understand, and maybe prevent mutation. What are they thinking? :angel:

Idaan
20-10-2010, 19:01
Why do we not see Eldar mutations?
As per "Xenology", the Eldar genome is very, very stable and clean (implying artificial design) - an Eldar skeleton from 10 million years ago shows no genetic divergence from a modern DE raider. Basically, they're the Great White Shark in space - so well adapted to their environment that they don't have to evolve. There are no environmental circumstances that would force them to adapt nor any junk DNA to be activated by pollution (as it seems to be the cause with human hive mutants). On the other hand, Chaos mutation is a whole different thing.

Yresk
22-10-2010, 10:31
Orks are mutated all the time, there are so many of them its simply imposible to not have mutations. but their mutations often take form in their state of mind. like mekboys and painboys. and of coarse we have the madboys who are simply a few indians short of a war party.

Tau dont have a natural defence against mutation. but as stated. they are to few and have not gotten enough experience against chaos to accualy be noted. but as said, they would probably be cut up and studied as soon as the first boil was seen.

Craftworld Eldar use their soulstones to protect them, mainly from slanesh but it gives them a great advantage againt mutation. and as stated. they are at the peak of perfection and dont have a need to change in any way.

tyranids travel in space for years and absorb DNA from hundreds of planets and they mutate all the time. some are accepted(like the new lictor on medusa) and others are not usefull, and they are killed instantly. chaos can disturb the nids and if they get seperated from the hive, they can probably be warped of and turned into some very strange things.

th reason that humans are so susceptable to chaos is that they have a open mind that can be filled with heresy and considering we have one of the biggest empires. there are seval planets that bring up several kinds of mutations, like rattlings, ogryns, elytrians.

spetswalshe
22-10-2010, 16:09
I would expect the immensely advanced medical care that a Craftworld Eldar has access to would also help. A deformity in an unborn child could probably be fixed without having to abort it or risk harming the mother. Then again, this probably isn't even necessary, as Idaan points out - they've had millennia to perfect their own biology without the shackles that humanity has placed on itself. By contrast, human breeding is still for the most part entirely unchecked and likely has the same or less medical care than we have nowadays.

I imagine Tau are a fairly similar thing; they have a high standard of technology across the board, and their caste system seems to hint at a regulated breeding culture, if not program.

Inquisitor Engel
22-10-2010, 16:42
As per "Xenology", the Eldar genome is very, very stable and clean (implying artificial design) - an Eldar skeleton from 10 million years ago shows no genetic divergence from a modern DE raider. Basically, they're the Great White Shark in space - so well adapted to their environment that they don't have to evolve.

Alternatively, they don't physically have the ability to evolve at all. Their genome is fixed in certain places the prevent morphological differences that might have had natural weaknesses bred into populations the Old Ones lost access to for some reason.

They are designed for a purpose and having them change would likely remove them from that purpose of design.

Just a thought.

Aliarzathanil
24-10-2010, 07:29
Medical care in the Imperium is arguably much better than what we have today. They may be backwards in some areas but not bionics and genetics.

Hendarion
24-10-2010, 09:32
Medical care in the Imperium is arguably much better than what we have today. They may be backwards in some areas but not bionics and genetics.
And that's why they kill the mutant instead of curing it.
"Burn the Heretic, Kill the Mutant, Purge the Unclean!"

thearchiver
24-10-2010, 14:07
Medical care might be better for some, however living conditions for most are much worse unless your on some agrieworld or a top hiver.

Hendarion
24-10-2010, 14:33
Medical *care* is actually really better only for the upper nobles. Medical equipment might be better by far, but the care is worse than on current earth in a 3rd world country.