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Spleen Hammer
20-10-2010, 11:23
Heya,
I'm starting an Empire army because my initial idea of a kick-ass Wood Elf army left me in laughing fits.
What I'm thinking is
Lots of State Troopers (I haven't read all the debates about Halberds/Swords/Spears, so I'm not sure where to ge there)
About the only actual Special Troop I want is a big ol' unit of Greatswords.
I want (probably) one of each of the artillery pieces.
Nix on the Stank.
As far as characters go, I'm at a loss here. I'm thinking the General on the griffon. He sounds diggity. (Could he join a unit of cav?)
I also want some Priest doods, even though I'm Atheist. Go figure...

I'm thinking a true Combined Arms force. As a member of the First Marines of the USMC back in the day, the thought of this appeals to me. Each unit supporting the other under the protective blanket of arty. Perhaps some close air support from the Dwarf friends and their Gyrocopters?

Comments on my vision that probably won't work? I'd like to leave Cav out of this because they don't fit the bill, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks a bunch!

theJ
20-10-2010, 11:35
Sounds doable.
On the topic of state troopers, most would probably tell you to skip the spears. Halberds are very hard hitting for their cost, and swords give you parry saves. I'd say go for the swords and use them as an anvil. Skip the halberds, because they (more or less) have the same role as those greatswords you wanted. Use the greatswords to counter stuff with too high toughness and/or armour save for your other units to beat.
Doubt the gryphon could join the knights, but he might be better off without them anyway. Use his mobility to cause havoc among the enemy lines, threatening flanks, killing key units, etc.
Warrior-Priests cannot ever go wrong, stick one in any block to up its killyness.

theorox
20-10-2010, 11:42
Sounds like a plan. Go for it. :D

Theo

Spleen Hammer
20-10-2010, 12:12
I suppose I should wait until I have the Empire Army book in my hands to make final decisions on what to get, but I really like the looks of all the varieties of State Troops. I don't dig the alternate legs/arms paint scheme, but that's entirely up to me I guess. The only thing that has me scratching my head is the whole detachment thing. But again, I need the book in my hands to grok that, eh?

My plan:
Front lines of State Swordsmen (w/applicable detachments?) with a Priest in the units for max "killiness". Behind these lines will be the Greatswords and in the gaps will be the Handgunners. Supporting all of the above will be the Battle Wizards, batteries of Arty, and what? More Priests? And finally, the General on his Battle Chicken.

If I wanted to include some Dwarf support, would that work under the "Allies" rules, or is that only applicable for multiplayer games and who can work together and still recieve bonuses and such? I really like the idea of a brace of Gyrocopters giving CAS to my grunts, you know?

theorox
20-10-2010, 12:19
Such additions would be an agreement with your gaminggroup. :)

Theo

Scythe
21-10-2010, 08:03
I suppose I should wait until I have the Empire Army book in my hands to make final decisions on what to get, but I really like the looks of all the varieties of State Troops. I don't dig the alternate legs/arms paint scheme, but that's entirely up to me I guess. The only thing that has me scratching my head is the whole detachment thing. But again, I need the book in my hands to grok that, eh?

My plan:
Front lines of State Swordsmen (w/applicable detachments?) with a Priest in the units for max "killiness". Behind these lines will be the Greatswords and in the gaps will be the Handgunners. Supporting all of the above will be the Battle Wizards, batteries of Arty, and what? More Priests? And finally, the General on his Battle Chicken.

If I wanted to include some Dwarf support, would that work under the "Allies" rules, or is that only applicable for multiplayer games and who can work together and still recieve bonuses and such? I really like the idea of a brace of Gyrocopters giving CAS to my grunts, you know?

The allies rules are not limited to multiplayer games. In theory, you could just add the Dwarf attachment, as long as it is a viable army on its own (3 separate units, 25% core, one character who acts as the general). You might want to check how your regular opponents think about this, though.

Priests are better in units of Greatswords or Halberdiers (or knights, if mounted). Thing is, swordsmen, as a defensive unit, aren't killy at all, so maxing their offensive ability accounts for very little. Better use those hatred rerolls on S5 great weapons or S4 halbred attacks.

Most people have an Arch Lector leading their Empire army these days instead of a General, mainly because of the dispel power the Lector brings. Personally, I despite the idea of a Lector leading an Empire army, and can't stand the idea of fielding an Empire army without a proper General of the Empire, so I stick to the general.

Fox Of 9
21-10-2010, 15:55
hi in a new empire player but over the last couple lf month thd warseer guys & i have made a list that i think is quite modular and is good at the mutual support idea aa well. its been getting some good/great feed back this week so here it is http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27953

tbdehart
22-10-2010, 14:13
If you haven't already set your heart on the General on a Griffin You might consider Balthasar Gelt on his Pegasus. I know, I know, 400 points is a lot, but this guy is a grade A badass. For starters you add +6 to all his casting results (+4 for being a lvl4 and +2 for his special staff). Then you get the mobility of a pegasus and a throwing weapon. This on top of knowing all the spells from the lore of metal make this guy the baddest dude in the Empire in my opinion.

oldschoolmonk
24-10-2010, 11:59
I play a very similar army. Here's a couple of observations I've had:

Level 4 wizards are definately worth it for empire because of their low cost. Excellent synergy with Rod of Power and Priests to get the most of your random PD/DD. She will make excellent use of the Lore of Heavens too as the casting values are very low, and you can arc a chain lightning into combats that are causing you grief (Like Chaos Warriors).

Arch Lectors make excellent generals. The War Altar is worth much more than it's points, and even without it the ability to add a lot of hatred attacks to a Greatsword unit is excellent. With an AL and WP you have +3 DD, and this is always going to be of use if you take that Rod. It's easy to keep two safe with 1+/4+ or 1+ rerollable saves. Their best retinues, as mentioned before, are Halberdiers and Greatswords.

A variety of warmachines always results in a better reaction from your enemy than duplicates or triplicates of your favorites. They may not complain at one of each, but the same player may think 3 mortars and a cannon is too nasty. A naked engineer is always worth it when you field 3-4 warmachines. Put them in a defensive position with the engineer in the center and you will find a great increase in survivability.

Fox Of 9
24-10-2010, 20:24
my preference in statetroops is 4 big blocks of them each supported by 2 detachments (5-10 shooting) Or ( 10-15 Combat / flanking units ). As for the big blocks them selves i'd probably get swordsmen as a defensive unit or tarpit and then halberdiers with a Warrior Priest for charging / being offenceive well hatred helps :p

Spleen Hammer
25-10-2010, 12:09
Okay, here's the question of the day, only because I still don't have the Empire Army book yet (stinkin' mail!).

I get the rules for cannons, they seem rather straight forward. But I've yet to see anything about mortars. There is nothing in the rule book about them. I can't imagine that they share the same rules as cannons, otherwise, why bother differentiating between the two?

So, how do mortars work? Like black powder stone throwers, or do they have rules unto themselves in the Empire book. I like the idea of mortars (having been a former Infantryman in the USMC) raining death from above. But I know that real life plays a very small role in tabletop gaming, if at all.

Cheers all, thanks.

SilasOfTheLambs
25-10-2010, 14:52
A mortar is pretty much a stone thrower, except a s3 armor piercing large template. s6 and d3 wounds under the middle of the template.

Let me put in a plug for two helblasters with a master engineer standing between them. Their damage output is just disgusting.

If you're taking greatswords, you *must* put a priest in them. I recommend Armor of Meteoric Iron, Dawnstone, Great Weapon. If you want to up him to an arch lector, then you can give him some more items.

Finally, consider finding space for a unit of knights. I know you want to go infantry-heavy, but at some point you'll run into a gunline and need something fast and tough to go and get the guns.

Best of luck!

tbdehart
25-10-2010, 14:52
Mortars are played like a stone thrower except that they use the large template. unfortunately the large radius is made up for with the strength 3(6) hits... So basically even if you land a shell right on top of a horde of Chaos Marauders you will only kill 5-10. But for 75 points its still a bargain.

SilasOfTheLambs
25-10-2010, 16:15
Large template in the middle of a horde of chaos marauders should hit about 26 models and kill 13 or so, since with GW all they can have is light armor. Multiple mortars improve your chances of this happening (see also: skaven slaves, empire swordsmen, and even t3 elites like black guard or eternal guard). In the current infantry-friendly metagame, I never leave home without 2. Also, if you manage to hit that hellcannon, hydra, dragon, etc etc etc you stand a fair chance of wounding it, which is sometimes worth it.

Spleen Hammer
26-10-2010, 15:18
All righty then, got the army book and things have been made clear. I can see the light! Wow, I'm a dork...

Anywho, here's what I'm thinking

General
-on griffon
-full plate & shield
-Sword o' Sigismund
-Holy Relic
385

Grand Master Flash Horse Guy
-Sword of Power
-Armor o' Meteoric Spam
210

Battle Std Bearer
-full plate
-Icon o' Magnus
-Imperial Banner
183

Captain o' the Empire, for Swordsmen
-Great wpn
-full plate
62

Warrior Priest
-Grt Hammer (look, it's great!)
-Hvy Armor
-Hammer o' Might
113

Battle Mage 1
-lvl 2
-Grey Wand
140

Battle Mage 2
-lvl 2
-dispell scroll (can you have more than one of these?)
125

Total for Lords and Heroes: 1218

State Trooper Regiment
-30 swordsmen w/cmd
-war banner
-10 Handgunner detachment
-15 Halberdier detachment
385

Knights of the Dinner Table
-10 knights w/cmd
-war banner
255

Hochschwert Regiment
-30 greatswords w/cmd (Hey! They're great too!)
-10 Handgunner detachment
-10 Swordsmen detachment
470

2 Great Cannons (Sweet! Look at all my greatness!)

Total for the army is 2482

Are there any glaring omissions? Am I looking at the whole "combined arms" thing wrong? Perhaps take out a cannon and add a rocket battery? That'd put me up to 2497pts.
My main opponents will be Ogres, Chaos Warriors, and Demons. From time to time Greenskins and I think Bretonia.

I have about half, maybe less than the above mentioned models, so I'm very open to suggestions at this point. Other than "Moar cannonz!! Add a Stank!!" because I feel those are just easy buttons. I'll get them eventually, because my wallet hates me, but not at the moment.

Thanks guys and gals, for all the input! I really appreciate it!
SH

Fox Of 9
26-10-2010, 16:00
You do realise that giant chickens going to die like 1st turn

Spleen Hammer
26-10-2010, 16:37
You do realise that giant chickens going to die like 1st turn

Please forgive me, but my warseer parlance may not be up to snuff. Which giant chickens would those be? The griffon?

If that's the case, can he not join a unit? If not, then would the lurking danger amount to being pasted in the beak from well placed war engine fire? Hrmm, perhaps you make a good point.

But, I know for a fact that there are no big ol' shooty things in the Ogre army, as well as the Demon army that I'll face. I think the Greenskins may have a Doomdiver, but I'm not sure.

Perhaps someone could pass on the wisdom of survival of a General on a Giant Chicken? I was thinking that a 4+ ward save and a 3+ armor save were adequate.

I'm bound to him as he is in the mail as we speak and alas, I am a poor college student/father of 2, so I can't just go out and get a new general.

A pox on being a large target!

puckus10
26-10-2010, 23:40
the chicken is whats going to get hit most of the time and it doesnt have a 3+,2+ so i think thats what he means

DivineVisitor
27-10-2010, 00:21
All righty then, got the army book and things have been made clear. I can see the light! Wow, I'm a dork...

Anywho, here's what I'm thinking

General
-on griffon
-full plate & shield
-Sword o' Sigismund
-Holy Relic
385

Grand Master Flash Horse Guy
-Sword of Power
-Armor o' Meteoric Spam
210

Battle Std Bearer
-full plate
-Icon o' Magnus
-Imperial Banner
183

Captain o' the Empire, for Swordsmen
-Great wpn
-full plate
62

Warrior Priest
-Grt Hammer (look, it's great!)
-Hvy Armor
-Hammer o' Might
113

Battle Mage 1
-lvl 2
-Grey Wand
140

Battle Mage 2
-lvl 2
-dispell scroll (can you have more than one of these?)
125

Total for Lords and Heroes: 1218

State Trooper Regiment
-30 swordsmen w/cmd
-war banner
-10 Handgunner detachment
-15 Halberdier detachment
385

Knights of the Dinner Table
-10 knights w/cmd
-war banner
255

Hochschwert Regiment
-30 greatswords w/cmd (Hey! They're great too!)
-10 Handgunner detachment
-10 Swordsmen detachment
470

2 Great Cannons (Sweet! Look at all my greatness!)

Total for the army is 2482

Are there any glaring omissions? Am I looking at the whole "combined arms" thing wrong? Perhaps take out a cannon and add a rocket battery? That'd put me up to 2497pts.
My main opponents will be Ogres, Chaos Warriors, and Demons. From time to time Greenskins and I think Bretonia.

I have about half, maybe less than the above mentioned models, so I'm very open to suggestions at this point. Other than "Moar cannonz!! Add a Stank!!" because I feel those are just easy buttons. I'll get them eventually, because my wallet hates me, but not at the moment.

Thanks guys and gals, for all the input! I really appreciate it!
SH

Just recently started using Empire myself so i may not have the greatest insight but here is my take on your list.

On the General i'd probably just stick with a Lance instead of the Sword of Sigismund or go all out and take the Hammer of Helstrum (a.k.a. the cannon hammer) which is always good for a laugh.

Take the Armour of Meteoric Iron off the Grand Master as he has a 1+ save without it, give it to a hero on foot, probably the battle standard.

Is the Imperial Banner the 100 point one that allows re-rolls on Terror, Fear, Panic and Rally tests? If so it's just a waste of points nowadays, just stick with a normal banner which will then allow you to have other magic items like the Armour of Meteoric Iron to give him some protection, a Dawnstone makes it even better.

Van Horsrmann's Speculum is always useful to stick on someone, i run it on my Arch Lector. As for on the wizards the Rod of Power is all kindsa awesomesauce.

Too many characters in my opinion, only really need:
General
Battle Standard
Wizards (either two lv2's or lv4 and lv2)
Warrior Priest or Arch Lector

A few more units would probably be a good idea too. As it stands i don't think the army is legal as Detachments don't count towards minimum core as far i've been made aware. But it would also bulk out the army, three main units in 2.5k isn't alot.

From what i've read Rocket batteries are awesome and could be very useful against a few of the opponents you've listed. Can't say i've used them personally however as i am yet to play over 1500 points with my Empire. I only have a single Mortar and Great Cannon in my current list.

I've been going for units of 42 with detachments of 20 Halberdiers, if your not all that fond of the Knights (and since there not quite as potent nowadays) i'd forsake them aswell as some of the characters in favour of more state troops. Empire don't really need to be character heavy, our troops and artillery can win the day.

Hope you manage to forge a list you enjoy using, all the best with your Empire! :)

stainawarjar
27-10-2010, 07:12
On the General i'd probably just stick with a Lance instead of the Sword of Sigismund or go all out and take the Hammer of Helstrum (a.k.a. the cannon hammer) which is always good for a laugh.


Lance on him I think is a good idea, the MACE of Helstrum not so much so. He usually only hits things worth hitting on 4+ and he can't join with a wp to get a re-roll on that one attack. I've actually been somewhat successful with a general on griffon with full plate, enchanted shield, holy relic and potion of foolhardiness, armed with a lance. He's mostly there for the 18" inspiring presence, and maybe some cleanup or small unit killing though, don't send him against an opposing combat character and expect him to live - that's what cannons are for!

The Grim
27-10-2010, 08:55
Let me put in a plug for two helblasters with a master engineer standing between them. Their damage output is just disgusting.



Did I just read that Hellblasters could use engineers?

stainawarjar
27-10-2010, 09:05
Did I just read that Hellblasters could use engineers?

Yup, as of the errata he can Master of Ballistics on to make any one war machine re-roll one scatter or artillery dice, the only exeption being the bounce of a cannonball.

Fox Of 9
27-10-2010, 12:23
@puckus10 yer thats what i was talking about :D

Spleen Hammer
27-10-2010, 20:48
I've a question for you all. Are prayers spells? As I read it in the army book, they are cast at power level 4 (I think), and if they are "cast" then can they be dispelled?

I'm thinking that the Popemobile, an Arch Lector and a bunch of Warrior Priests might be the way to go. Also, it would be great irony to my play group as it is widely known that I am atheist, albeit an atheist who respects others' faith and beliefs.

Puckus10: my secret decoder ring must have gotten lost in the mail, so can you translate your post to me?

Thanks!

DivineVisitor
27-10-2010, 20:55
I've a question for you all. Are prayers spells? As I read it in the army book, they are cast at power level 4 (I think), and if they are "cast" then can they be dispelled?

I'm thinking that the Popemobile, an Arch Lector and a bunch of Warrior Priests might be the way to go. Also, it would be great irony to my play group as it is widely known that I am atheist, albeit an atheist who respects others' faith and beliefs.

Puckus10: my secret decoder ring must have gotten lost in the mail, so can you translate your post to me?

Thanks!

Thats right. Prayers are bound spells cast and dispelled just like normal spells at power lv4.

Spleen Hammer
28-10-2010, 01:19
So do I have to use the regular power dice to cast the prayers? If so, that seems rather gimped, don't you think?

Perhaps having a bunch priests isn't the way to go then.

Back to plan A it is then. And if this is the case and I want to take 2 lvl 2 mages, what lores are the norm for Empire? I'm thinking Beasts for the buffs and life for the, um, life-y stuff.

Torpedo Vegas
28-10-2010, 16:29
Hrm. I prefer Flaggelants to Greatswords but what have you. I like your Swordsmen and their detachments. I'd add a detachment of Free Company instead of Swordsmen for the Greatswords, they get TONS of attacks, are great on the support charge, and are very cheap.

Jericho
28-10-2010, 22:04
The advantage of bound spells now is they are super easy to cast (and easy to dispel if the enemy has a L4 sadly :() and they can't blow up in your face when they roll double sixes. They aren't "free spells" anymore. The part that annoys me is the old expensive bound spells had higher power level ... which now just makes them a lot tougher to use successfully. They're usually "one use only" too. So long, Ring of Volans, I used to like you :p

DivineVisitor
28-10-2010, 22:49
The advantage of bound spells now is they are super easy to cast (and easy to dispel if the enemy has a L4 sadly :() and they can't blow up in your face when they roll double sixes. They aren't "free spells" anymore. The part that annoys me is the old expensive bound spells had higher power level ... which now just makes them a lot tougher to use successfully. They're usually "one use only" too. So long, Ring of Volans, I used to like you :p

The funny one is the Grand Theogonist and his power level 5 bound spells. used to be harder for the enemy to dispel, now simply harder for you to cast hehe.

Spleen Hammer
31-10-2010, 12:10
Sooo, do prayers use magic dice to cast, or do they just automatically happen and then the opponent can then try to dispel the effect with a target number of 4?

DivineVisitor
31-10-2010, 15:40
Sooo, do prayers use magic dice to cast, or do they just automatically happen and then the opponent can then try to dispel the effect with a target number of 4?

There cast just like normal spells with a casting value equal to their bound value (e.g. 4+ for a Priest/Arch Lector, 5+ for the Grand Theogonist, 3+? for the War Altar)

Torpedo Vegas
31-10-2010, 16:03
There cast just like normal spells with a casting value equal to their bound value (e.g. 4+ for a Priest/Arch Lector, 5+ for the Grand Theogonist, 3+? for the War Altar)
But you don't run the risk of miscasting.

DivineVisitor
31-10-2010, 17:04
But you don't run the risk of miscasting.

Yep, another great thing about them :)

Torpedo Vegas
31-10-2010, 18:35
Yep, another great thing about them :)
Which is why I think the WAltar is so great. Speed of Light at power level 5, just toss a bunch of dice into it. Hope you roll 2x 6's and you get irresistible force without killing yourself.

Spleen Hammer
02-11-2010, 14:34
So it looks like my main opponents are going to be Ogre Kingdoms and hordes of Khorne Demons. Should this alter my force make-up in any manner, or will the standard Empire lists still do the trick?

The 2 units I'm commited to are:
Big ol' unit o' Swordsmen (30+)
with a 10 man detachment of handgunners and
with a 10 man detachment of halberdiers

and
Big ol' unit o' Greatswords (30+)
with detachments (X and Y, not sure on these)

I'm thinking at least 3 cannons and some mortars.
Perhaps a 10+ unit of Cav to stick my general in?
I own the general on the griffon model, but apparently that's a bad idea. Teh sux...

Torpedo Vegas
02-11-2010, 15:41
A ten men detachment of Halberdiers will only serve to die and give your opponents Vp's. Field them at fifteen strong, in a 5x3. I'd go with 2 cannons and 2 mortars, maybe a helblaster. The General on Griffin will be cannon sniped and cannot join units. Maybe put him on a warhorse with a 9 strong unit of Knights, or grab the Arch Lector and field him on a War Altar.

Spleen Hammer
02-11-2010, 18:00
Well, near as I can tell, I'll not be facing anyone who has a cannon at their disposal. So I still think the General on a Chicken would be okay.

I may keep the Greatswords on the shelf and actually field a Big ol' Unit o' Halberdiers. With applicable detachments, of course. I really comes down to budget. I own 10 Greatswords already, 10 Halberdiers already, and like 20 Handgunners. I like the idea of handunners 10 man detachments, you know?

As far as the Popemobile goes, I already own 2 War Priests on foot, so I'll use them instead.

Fox Of 9
02-11-2010, 18:59
grandmaster + knights = X_x but thats just personal thinking it sort of depends if you could have the cheapish general as your general then have your grandmaster killing tonnes of stuff ??

Torpedo Vegas
02-11-2010, 21:19
if you could have the cheapish general as your general then have your grandmaster killing tonnes of stuff ??
That works too! But remember, the Grandmaster can only join a Unit of Knights if they are from the same Order

Spleen Hammer
05-11-2010, 10:51
Actually, has anyone used a big ol' unit o' Cav as a second core unit? I've got 8 already, and really wouldn't be much to expand that to 16. Then I could stick my general in there, maybe Helborg and even Luther.

I am really dismayed that cavalry isn't what it used to be or even what it ought to be. I do think that 16+ Knights of the Dinner Table could have some merit to it... I shall ruminate about this.

What do y'all think?

DivineVisitor
05-11-2010, 14:53
Actually, has anyone used a big ol' unit o' Cav as a second core unit? I've got 8 already, and really wouldn't be much to expand that to 16. Then I could stick my general in there, maybe Helborg and even Luther.

I am really dismayed that cavalry isn't what it used to be or even what it ought to be. I do think that 16+ Knights of the Dinner Table could have some merit to it... I shall ruminate about this.

What do y'all think?

I used 14 Knights with great weapons in my last game, they did alright against a unit of Daemonettes and a Herald. Could have made quicker work of them but they were near enough to the Lord of Change General and their Battle Standard bearer for the most part and my saving throws were terrible, over the rounds they spent in combat i had 14 saves to make on 3+ and failed 7 of them lol.

Next time im thinking of just going for Lances and Shield and if there needing help boosting them with strength increasing spells or hexing the unit their in combat with with toughness decreasing spells.

Jericho
05-11-2010, 16:31
I've said it a whole bunch before, cav are still good, they just don't rule the battlefield anymore. Used to attack support units they can still be devastating. They move quickly and are more than able to tackle ranged units, monsters, chariots, and can quickly get at the backfield units like war machines.

Throwing them headlong into combat against massed ranks of infantry is a waste. Once you kill support units you can often use a free reform to line up support charges along the main battle line. Taking cavalry up the pooper is rarely a good thing, as this should provide a good 3-6 points of CR even if you don't have a second rank to disrupt the enemy.

Spleen Hammer
05-11-2010, 19:57
Heh, you said Pooper...


Right then, 16 Cavalry it is. I've already got my original 8 bedecked in lances and shields, as I've heard over and over that this is the best way to kit them out. I've yet to play a match, so we shall see.

Spleen Hammer
08-11-2010, 12:21
Right then, got another order in to get some more dudes to paint pants on.

I've got another box o' Cav coming, another cannon, Luthor Huss (or Generic Mounted Priest), the Empire General and Standard Guy, another box o' State Troops (to be built as Halberdiers, either as a detachment or a unit unto themselves), and a Rocket Battery.

It's too bad one couldn't use detachments with cav because I'm thinking a detachment of Outriders for the Knights would be groovy.

On a side note, by buddy gave me his list of Ogre Kingdoms army and his 2500pt list only has 26 models!! Ugh, I'm thinking I'm going to be no more than fodder for the Great Maw...

Spleen Hammer
08-11-2010, 12:26
On a side note, if I were to field some Mages, and I think I should, what is the consensus as the optimal Lores to use? I like the idea of Beast for the buffs, but Shadow and it's debuffs (and the Mindrazor) are neat too. Then there's the ubiquitous Lore o' Fire for the killiness of it all. I'd like to go with 2 weenie mages, who would then have 2 spells each, but what to choose?

I'm in a conundrum...

Fox Of 9
08-11-2010, 15:47
life buffs and dwellers. beasts buffs, buffs and more buffs. fire your get to shoot at a unit more with the fire cage or they get hurt.

Torpedo Vegas
08-11-2010, 15:55
What do y'all think?
Fellow Southerner detected
I run a bigish unit of Inner Circle Knights. They aren't a front line unit by any means, they need to be supported by infantry blocks, or act in support of infatry blocks. The still are great for Flank and Rear charges.

Spleen Hammer
08-11-2010, 17:52
Actually, I'm from Michigan. I just picked a bizarre parlance while in the Marines.

With that many Knights, would it be worthwhile to rune them in 2 units of 8 rather than a mob of 16? I can think of many tactical reasons for doing so, but this game and other tabletop games rarely benefit from real life tactics.

Lore of Life, eh? I guess I have never really considered that before. My main army is Vampire Counts and Life is anathema. I'll chew on that for a bit. Life and Beasts. This could show promise...

Golden Lion
09-11-2010, 10:07
Spleen Hammer: just play it as you like man, most choices would be quite fine. So Spearmen are slightly less efficient than Halberdiers or Swordsmen, but not a waste or anything. 16 Knights would be a right hard unit, with that big a block, a Grandmaster would be a fluffy (i.e. well suited to background) and pretty sound choice, making the unit immune to psychology (still a big deal) and dealing out a bit more hurtin' than a general. You could give him the 'Other Trickster's Shard' for a measly 15pts to annoy ward-save toting Daemons. Lances or Gw, different horses different courses (did you see what I did there?).

Also don't throw the Griffon out of the window that quickly. It may die to concentrated shooting, but last time I checked, that's not exactly Daemons' or Ogres' forte. On the contrary, he ignores their whole 'fear me!' shenanigans and can actually hurt those multiwound-high-T-models. Charge him in next to infantry to even the odds. Or give him the Sword of Fate to scare the pants of bad-ass generals. Also, in 8th edition, large target-generals have a 18" Ld bubble, instead of 12". Pretty neat for Empire.

Just see what works and what does not against your regular opponents, and experiment around a bit. Don't fall into the copy-paste army list trap too quickly, it can become a bit dull!

Have fun mate

Torpedo Vegas
09-11-2010, 15:20
Oh well :(

I'd take them in two units of 8, good for pulling off multiple charges from the flank and rear. If you want to field them in a 16 man unit, give em GWs to make a huge (and awesome looking) hammer unit.

If you want the Griffin general, make sure he gets a Ward save. You'll have to watch out for scraplaunchers. And Pink Horrors for them daemons. He'd make a pretty effective flanker, and Ogres have a rather poor leadership so...

Fox Of 9
10-11-2010, 17:48
Chicken Equipment .. humm . . 4++ yes 45pts ( holy relic ftw ). 2+ Strenght in CC why not 40pts. dragonhelm +1 to save yes + 2+ ward V Fire ( Nice ). full plate & shield 3+ save plus 1 for dragonhelm & +1 for the giant chicken. soo 1+ SAVE 4++ WARD 2++ WARD V Fire not to bad give him some 5pt enchanted item, griffon & we are set . . . unless he gets owned by a cannon ball . . David

Fox Of 9
10-11-2010, 17:51
@Golden Lion too true about copy and paste army lists thats why i listen to everyones point of view, tear it apart and the put it back together in a horrible excuse for advice . . . David

Spleen Hammer
11-11-2010, 10:47
. . . unless he gets owned by a cannon ball . . David

Lolz...

thankfully, I'll not be facing any, and I mean any enemy arty. So it would appear that my Super Chicken has a green light and is clean to launch.

So, next question: How does one perform a challenge? 'Cause I'm thinking that the Uber Chicken of Destiny will pwn face, you know?

Fox Of 9
11-11-2010, 15:16
Lolz...

thankfully, I'll not be facing any, and I mean any enemy arty. So it would appear that my Super Chicken has a green light and is clean to launch.

So, next question: How does one perform a challenge? 'Cause I'm thinking that the Uber Chicken of Destiny will pwn face, you know?

The only problem could be that your general kills the challengee or challenger and the your griffons sitting there like a turkey at christmas. .. David

Spleen Hammer
16-11-2010, 15:34
I guess if that happens, then it happens.

But, on a good note, my force is coming together swimmingly. I now have a 40 man swordsman unit, with a 15 man halberdier detach and a 15 man handgunner detach. My knights have been fleshed out to 16 strong, and I plan to plug in either Luthor or a mounted priest and more than likely a grand master to make it 18 doods. My general, well that's the chicken rider of past discussions. I also have a great cannon, a mortar and a rocket battery. Now I suppose I'll work on the greatsword unit next. I've been hearing good things about archers too, perhaps I'll consider them as well. But dern it! Guns are so much sweeter than archaic weapons, you know?

We shall see.

Spleen Hammer
22-11-2010, 14:45
Right then, had a 2000pt game this weekend against an Ogre army. I thought I was doomed, but was really rather surprised at the outcome.

I had:
General on a horsey
a Grand Master
a BSB Cap'n
a regular Cap'n
2 warrior priests
and a battle mage.

a 30 man swordsmen unit w/
-a 10 handgunner detach
-a 10 halberdier detach

a 10 (I think) man Knight unit

a 10 man greatsword unit

a cannon and a mortar

He took:
a Tyrant
a butcher
a bruiser

an 8 man(?) unit of bulls
an 8 man unit of ironguts
a 4 man unit of leadbelchers
12 gnobs

Highlights:
My mage got off Dwellers Below and took out 3/4 of his ironguts unit. Love that spell...
My cannon one-shotted his butcher.
My swordsmen unit tied up his bulls unit and actually did fairly well. The halberdiers did amazing things! I think I shall make an entire unit of the doods.

Bottom line: He conceded the game when all he had left was 4 bulls led by a bruiser, who were still tied up with the leftovers of my swordsmen conglomerate. I had 5 of my knights, with my general and grand master flash all lined up to get the charge off in his back arc.

Oh, and my mage actually killed something in melee!! An already wounded bull, but let's not detract from the awesome!

I think I shall like the Empire. Each of the units in a vacuum seem rather lackluster but when liberally applied with buff spells, artillery fire and superior maneuvers, they gel into a face-wrecking machine.

Good stuff...

Torpedo Vegas
22-11-2010, 18:33
I have to ask, what was the purpose of having ten Greatswords?

RanaldLoec
23-11-2010, 10:19
What's the point of any Empire model they look cool with their fluffy pants and big feathers.

Spleen Hammer
23-11-2010, 14:43
Well, I took 10 greatswords because that's all I own at this moment, and I needed some points filled up.

Quite literally, I used everything I own, save a couple of heroes. Eventually I'd like to fill out the greatswords to 30 and give them their own detachments.

Here's a question: Can a state trooper unit have more than one melee detachment? I ask this because the 10 man handgunner detachment for my swordsmen did very little to nothing for me.

And yes, the look splendid in their fluffy pants and copa cabana shirts. I'm actually thinking about kit-bashing some extra grave guard and zombie parts in with my units and then designating the entire shebang as the "1st Sylvanian Corps". We shall see...

Torpedo Vegas
23-11-2010, 16:23
Yes, they can have more than one melee detachment, no, greatswords can't be detachments.

Fox Of 9
23-11-2010, 19:41
greatswords rock at 30+ but under that & they are shameful

Spleen Hammer
24-11-2010, 00:00
Yeah, I know that greatswords can't be detachments, I wanted to know if they could have more than one melee detach. With that answer in mind, I shall kit them out with 2 halberd detachments. I think, anyway.

I'm actually looking at my greatswords being my premier unit, the one that gets priority for buffs and characters. Maybe I should combine them with some grave guard models to get the whole Sylvanian thing going. Then the greatswords will mostly come out at night. Mostly...



Someday I'll figure out how to post pics.