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vorthain
20-10-2010, 16:45
New 1250 pt list (same as last post for simplicity) that I need your help with to finish up:

Lords (21.6%)
- Grey Warlock Wyreclaw w/ Skalm (270)

Heroes (5.8%)
- Chieftain Battle Standard Bearer Mursnik w/ halberd (72)

Core (30.4%)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command and Warp Fire Thrower (225)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command (155)

Specials (26.6%)
- Tinkr's Cyb-Ogres: Rat Ogres x 3 w/ Packmaster (128)
- The Warp Runners: gutter runners x 5 (60)
- Poison Wind Globadiers x 5 w/ Death Globe Bombardier and Poison Wind Mortar (145)

Rare (12.0%)
- Thing-Crusher: Doomwheel (150)

With my 45 remaining points, I can:
a) add more clanrats (5 to each unit)
b) add poison to the gutter runners, and maybe dragon helm to the BSB
c) another rat ogre
d) cut a rat ogre ( down to a unit of 2 w/ packmaster) and get more clanrats, poison the runners, and bolster BSB
(I probably would not include them normally, but I have 2 done from IoB, so that's what I'm using)

I'm leaning to (a) or (d) because I only have 60 rank and files. Any input is greatly appreciated!

vorthain
23-10-2010, 18:29
Given that Night Runners are not as good as I may have thought, I'm replacing them with a flanking unit of Stormvermin to protect my big Clanrat flanks and maybe do some flank attacks themselves. Here's my new list at 1,499 pts:

Lords (18.0%)
Grey Warlock (225)
- Warpstone Tokens x d3
- Foul Pendant

Heroes (7.5%)
Chieftain (112)
- Battle Standard Bearer: Storm Banner
- halberd and poisoned attacks

Core (35.8%)
Clanrats x 30 (225)
- full command
- shields
- Warpfire Thrower

Clanrats x 30 (210)
- full command
- shields
- Doom-Flayer

Stormvermin x 12 (101)
- musician
- shield

Special (23.2%)
Rat Ogres x 3 w/ Packmaster (128)

Jezzails x 3 (60)

Poisoned Wind Globadiers x 5 (145)
- Bombadier w/ Death Globe
- Poisoned Wind Mortar

Rare (15.7%)
Hell Pit Abomination (235)

The chieftain will join one of the Clanrat units, HPA and Stormvermin on opposing flanks, globadiers sticking to rear to use mortar, maybe wandering forward to use the Death Globe, all focused around the Grey Warlock. I think this seems solid. Thoughts?

spiderman5z
24-10-2010, 06:05
Well I don't know much about skaven but I really wanna see a picture of that mechanized hell pit once its finished =D

GreenSpeed
24-10-2010, 06:33
12 storm vermin are not that usefull, youde be better off with a full unit of 20. They wouldn't be mcuh use for flanking either cause if they loose 3 guys they no longer break ranks either.

I'd avoid getting your bsb into combat, so you could gain some points from dropping poison on him

Beyond that some of your support units seem kind of small, but that may not be an issue since they are indeed support units, rat ogres are however a bit soft with only T4 and no save, consider beefing up that unit

karse88
24-10-2010, 18:18
I dont fancy PWG much, I would go for something else in your army... i dont know about HPA either, when its only 1500.. i use DW and WLC... hmm :) i would go for a larger/2 rat ogre teams and forget about storm vermin OR cut out globadiers and make a badass stormvermin unit.
i have made 2-3 wounds with 8 jezzails, shooting 2-3 rounds, i dont think 3 would make a difference for you... i prefer doomwheel because of the devastating bolts even though HPA is sooo sweet! :P

vorthain
24-10-2010, 20:27
I'd avoid getting your bsb into combat, so you could gain some points from dropping poison on him

So you think the BSB should essentially hide behind large units rather than use his combat skills? Seems like it'd be a a waste of a pretty good fighter with his high weapon skill and initiative, and I have been using him to good effect (except for a battle today where he and his unit got absolutely stomped by some Black Guard).


I dont fancy PWG much, I would go for something else in your army... i dont know about HPA either, when its only 1500.. i use DW and WLC... hmm i would go for a larger/2 rat ogre teams and forget about storm vermin OR cut out globadiers and make a badass stormvermin unit.
i have made 2-3 wounds with 8 jezzails, shooting 2-3 rounds, i dont think 3 would make a difference for you... i prefer doomwheel because of the devastating bolts even though HPA is sooo sweet! :P

I like the PWG mostly because of their ignoring armor saves against Chaos Warriors and Dwarfs. Plus, the idea seems awesome.

I have used a Warp Lightning Cannon in two games at ~750 - in the first in blew up on its first shot, on the second it killed two Dark Elf Spear Warriors; I'm not very happy with it. The Doomwheel isn't bad, but I don't like how goofy it looks. I could always have my walking Skryre construct count as a Doomwheel though.

It sounds like bad luck with your jezzails, considering they hit on 5+ (assuming long range), wound on 2+ or 3+ against most enemies, and practically ignore armor saves. Given 3 rounds of shooting with 8, more probably should have hit. Then again, my WLC should probably do more too statistically, so there is that.

I may cut the Stormvermin and enlarge my two Clanrat units further to 35 each - though at what point are they too big? 35? 40? 60?

Also, I know what you mean about the Rat Ogres - they haven't done anything in either game except flee and die. I guess keeping them concealed until they attack is key, but that's is difficult to do with true line of sight and frenzy, correct? Given they are taller than all other Skaven, they must move to the nearest enemy, correct? If I'm wrong, that would help them out.

Thanks a ton for the comments guys. I'm going to put a revised list up soon, after I detail my loss to a Dark Elf army today (my roommate used my Dark Elves and beat me pretty single-handedly in his first time playing - pretty embarassing).

karse88
24-10-2010, 22:57
hate losing to new players :P haha...
about the jezzails, i never had luck with mine, but you have a unit of 3? thats about 1 wound pr turn right? 6 wounds, for 60 points.. you will have to find something good to shoot on then hehe.. just my oppinion.. i usually play with 40.. works nice in my army.. and to the rat ogre thing.. try using 5 + lord on bonebraker.. its a bit expensive but alot of fun! x) 25 s 5 + 4 s4 and stomp afterwards!

vorthain
25-10-2010, 01:14
Yeah as far as the Jezzails, I'm hoping to have them peg some Chaos Knights or something. I will have to think on them some more I suppose.

spriten
25-10-2010, 10:11
I would consider fielding a warlock engineer with a nice toy. It's very fluffy (mandatory in my eyes) for a Skryre list.
The doom rocket can be unreliable, but potentially game breaking, that big blast makes a mess of almost anything.
Also the death globe can easily bring back twice it's points or more if it hits.

spriten
25-10-2010, 10:16
I also considered making a Skryre abomination from the ork deff dread. It would look awesome with the engineer from the Doomwheel popping out the top hatch! :D

vorthain
25-10-2010, 19:04
Spriten - that is almost exactly my idea, but my mate has extra killa kans he's selling me for cheap, so I'm not passing it up. I was considering the Deff Dread or Penitent Engine as well. Good point on the Engineer too - thought I'm modeling my Grey Seer as a Master Engineer - hence Grey Warlock. However, I think Ld 7 on the Grey Seer alone is good enough reason to field him compared to a pair of less Warlock Engineers for a similar price.

I have cut my list to 1,250 in the interest of bank account not being spent funneled into the interminable grind of painting innumerable Clanrats. It is actually 1,251. Here goes:

Lords (19.2%)
- Grey Warlock (240)

Heroes (7.6%)
- Chieftain Battle Standard Bearer w/ Ruby Ring of Ruin (95)
*Storm Banner seems too expensive, whereas this would allow even more magic output with D6 S4 hits on a 3+ casting roll

Core (34.8%)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command and Warp Fire Thrower (225)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command and Doom-flayer (210)
* some people say the Doom-flayer sucks because of how fragile it is, but ~6 hits at S4 and -2 to armor seems OK for a flank attack at 55 pts

Specials (26.6%)
- Rat Ogres x 3 w/ Packmaster (128)
*I will be sure to hide these brutes until they are needed given how vulnerable they are to shooting
- Jezzails x 3 (60)
*Sure these don't hit all that frequently, 3 are going to hit just as much per model as many
- Poison Wind Globadiers x 5 w/ Death Globe Bombadier and Mortar
*looking forward to using this unit - can't wait to use the Death Globe on some Chaos Warriors or Ironbreakers

Rare (12.0%)
- Thing-Crusher [counts as Doomwheel] (150)

What do you think of the newest iteration? I'm liking it a lot.

spriten
26-10-2010, 20:05
Penitent engine eh? That would look extremely cool with a skaven attached to it :chrome:

But still, I'd lose the the Jezzails for an engineer with something fancy (rocket sincne you already have the globe) and a shooty stick (or a pistol). That's can be cheaper than the globadiers, and can do extremely more damage. He could also carry the Iron curse icon to protect your rats.

Failing that I'd add a slave unit for sixty points (though you don't want to paint to much).

spriten
26-10-2010, 20:07
And please, share with us how you fare with the Doom-Flayer. I'm still tinkering on one for my own :)

karse88
26-10-2010, 21:01
I'm with spriten on the jezzails :) i had my first, in the new edition, battle against bretonia yesteday... a victory :) played 2500 points! :)
2 x 40 clan rats + ratling
26 clan rats + warpfire
20 storm vermin + doom-flayer - had to try it out! :p
all the clan rats did a very good job! the storm vermin hit a single character and stod there for 2 turns! :S the doom flayer got shot by 10 bretonia archers 3+ AS 4+ WS :S... but! im 100% to use it next time ! :p
and vorthain, looking forward to hear how the army works out for you :)

vorthain
27-10-2010, 01:49
So a Warlock Engineer with a warplock musket and warlock optics is 50 pts. A trio of jezzails is 60 pts. Shooting against T4 enemies with light armor and shield at, I don't know, 18" away:

Warlock Engineer: 1 shot, hits on 4+, wounds on 3+, ignores armor save
Jezzails: 3 shots, hits on 5+, wounds on 2+, ignores armor save

The Jezzails seem like a better deal, given they get more attacks, wound more easily, and ignore armor saves on 3+ enemies like Chaos Warriors with shields. For a Warlock Engineer with a warplock pistol, Doomrocket, and Ironcurse Icon, it is 53 pts. Sure, the Doomrocket is crazy strong, but it seems like you would have to firing at a column of troops coming right at you to make it worth it. For instance, if you measure the center of a 5x5 unit to be 24" away, you would want to roll 7 dice. However, it could go between 7" and 42", so it seems like there is a lot of room for it to not hit the target. Then, once he fires it off, he's pretty much just a clanrat with a warplock pistol. Plus, I don't really want him in combat (as part of a Clanrat unit). Those are good suggestions, and I see why you say that, and I may try them out, but it looks to be like the jezzails have more bang for the buck.

As soon as I get a second IoB box, I'm going to do a doom-flayer, though I may proxy one before that. I am going to use the packmaster's weapon with blades spiraling around it, attached to the ratling gun rear-rat. I know I have to keep it away from shooting - hopefully it can score a flank attack later in the game.

Good job on the game, karse. If I expand my army, 20 Stormvermin will be high on the list.

I lost my second battle with Skaven (1st was a victory against Chaos Warriors, 2nd was a loss against Dark Elves), so I should have a rematch against the Dark Elves soon. I plan on proxying a doom-flayer instead of the poison wind mortar and a doomwheel rather than the warp lightning cannon. I'll let you guys know how it goes when it happens, and thanks for the interest and comments thus far.

spriten
27-10-2010, 18:16
Yeah, everything must be tested :) And if the enemy is close, it's much more reliable. But skitterleaping him to an enemy flank is the most effective use of him, though.

Do like your doom-flayer idea, maybe add an ork whirling blade from the kans?
I'm going to build one from a space marine bike, with a rat riding it :cool:

karse88
27-10-2010, 20:44
rat on a bike! haha nice, but alitle?... 40.000 k maby? ;P
the doom-flayer sounds awesome! what base does it use? normal horse base?
looking on the picture in the army book, it seems HUGE!

spriten
27-10-2010, 23:18
Yeah, maybe I watched to much Biker mice from Mars as a kid, but a rat driving a bike festooned with spikes and whirly stuff slamming into people at high speeds, is very appealing to me :)

spriten
27-10-2010, 23:19
And yes, it's a weapon team exactly as the others, so it uses the cavalry base.

vorthain
28-10-2010, 01:34
Sounds like it could be a mini-proto-doomwheel.

karse88
28-10-2010, 11:29
haha vorthain! i was thinking the exact same thing!.. but it on a chariot base and you've got yourself er recking machine! x)

spriten
28-10-2010, 13:15
Maybe even a squadron of them!
I'm planning to skavenize a land speeder (on wheels) for a doomwheel though. Of course I have to buy one of the models too, but the more the merrier :)

vorthain
29-10-2010, 01:20
Yeah I'm getting the Killa Kan stuff from a friend next weekend, then I can make my doomwheel conversion. I'm now thinking of putting it on a four-wheeled base with a big warpstone-powered engine, maybe with a rolling crusher in the front. It's all big ideas til I start cutting the foam.

vorthain
10-11-2010, 01:59
Still waiting on doomwheel bits, but I'm rethinking the doom-flayer. After all, it is only I3, so it is probably going to get hit first (or simultaneous). Have you all had any luck with it?

papabearshane
10-11-2010, 02:19
I know your going for the Skryre Hord effect but 3 Rat Ogres are way to small.........My Moulder list has 24 in it and they cause so much damage its rediculus.......................

Have to say it looks kinda like a hodge podge of stuff so id drom some of the bagage like globs and ogres and stick with either a shooty hord feel or a combat grinder/thrower/morter list to get that extra Skryre effect................................

vorthain
14-11-2010, 21:48
So I'm bumping this a little since I've made some substantial changes to my list. I've got 45 pts spared and there are options to be had; otherwise, I'm very happy with the list:

Lords (21.6%)
- Grey Warlock Wyreclaw w/ Skalm (270)

Heroes (5.8%)
- Chieftain Battle Standard Bearer Mursnik w/ halberd (72)

Core (30.4%)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command and Warp Fire Thrower (225)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command (155)

Specials (26.6%)
- Tinkr's Cyb-Ogres: Rat Ogres x 3 w/ Packmaster (128)
- The Warp Runners: gutter runners x 5 (60)
- Poison Wind Globadiers x 5 w/ Death Globe Bombardier and Poison Wind Mortar (145)

Rare (12.0%)
- Thing-Crusher: Doomwheel (150)

With my 45 remaining points, I can:
a) add more clanrats (5 to each unit)
b) add poison to the gutter runners, and maybe dragon helm to the BSB
c) another rat ogre
d) cut a rat ogre ( down to a unit of 2 w/ packmaster) and get more clanrats, poison the runners, and bolster BSB
(I probably would not include them normally, but I have 2 done from IoB, so that's what I'm using)

I'm leaning to (a) or (d) because I only have 60 rank and files. Any input is greatly appreciated!