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Hrolf the Ganger
20-10-2010, 21:15
When I called out a challenge with my general in a combat with my opponents battle standard bearer, he refused and I selected the BSB to waggle backwards in shame.

Now, according to how we read the rules, all that happened was that the BSB could not attack and the unit could not use his leadership...is this the case? Can my opponent still use the reroll ability within 12", and will the battle standard still provide a +1 combat resolution? I know the reroll ability can't be used when he is fleeing, but I found no such comment regarding retired models.

Thanks in advance

Feefait
20-10-2010, 21:53
My understanding was you lost all benefits of a character when they refuse a challenge. I could be mixing up old rules though. Not knowing for sure at the time we'd play that way.

Synnister
20-10-2010, 22:30
When I called out a challenge with my general in a combat with my opponents battle standard bearer, he refused and I selected the BSB to waggle backwards in shame.

Now, according to how we read the rules, all that happened was that the BSB could not attack and the unit could not use his leadership...is this the case? Can my opponent still use the reroll ability within 12", and will the battle standard still provide a +1 combat resolution? I know the reroll ability can't be used when he is fleeing, but I found no such comment regarding retired models.

Thanks in advance

You are correct. The rules state that he goes to the back and you cannot use his leadership. There is no rule requiring your BSB to be in the fight to provide his benefits.

geldedgoat
21-10-2010, 02:40
Unless there's a rule somewhere other than the section for refusing a challenge on page 102 or BSBs on page 107, you can still use the effects of his banner. That's by-the-book RAW, but RAI provides a different answer.


This ability cannot be used if the Battle Standard Bearer is himself fleeing - no one takes heart from the sight of a coward.

Obviously refusing a challenge and high-tailing it to the back of a unit is cowardly and a form of fleeing, but I don't think it's equivalent to the actual rule Flee!. Still, that's a great basis for a before-the-game house-rule.

On a side note, is a charge reaction Flee! different from a failed break test Flee!? The rules for the BSB say that if he ever flees from combat, he is slain instantly, yet it then goes on to say that other units can't use his rerolls if he's fleeing.

Synnister
21-10-2010, 02:48
On a side note, is a charge reaction Flee! different from a failed break test Flee!? The rules for the BSB say that if he ever flees from combat, he is slain instantly, yet it then goes on to say that other units can't use his rerolls if he's fleeing.

Yes. You can flee from a charge and not die as a BSB. The rule for him to be removed is if your unit breaks from combat and he sticks around to defend the standard and dies defending it.

Lungboy
21-10-2010, 10:45
Indeed, fleeing as a charge reaction is not fleeing from combat.

Hrolf the Ganger
21-10-2010, 11:18
There is no rule requiring your BSB to be in the fight to provide his benefits.

This is what we discovered also. Seems strange, but if my opponent don't want to house-rule it, thats the way it is...

Thank you