View Full Version : Skaven vs Dwarves

21-10-2010, 04:09
So I have only played one game of 8th edition so far, and I am pretty sure that me and my friend missed alot of the rules. I honestly have no idea what to expect with the new rules form Dwarves. If anybody has any simple tips or strategies that would help I would appreciate it. Thanks

The Grim
21-10-2010, 04:15
Take Slaves :p

Seriously, what size are the armies?

21-10-2010, 04:20
They are 2500 each. Not sure exactly how to stop what will probably be a large firing line of grudge throwers and organ guns.

The Grim
21-10-2010, 04:24
Well, that sounds to be a funny dwarf... Gutter runners seem to be fine for the job, especially with poisonned throwing stars. I guess you'd want fast things but I guess the HPA is pretty much out of question. You are going to need a lot of screens of slaves etc, you can try and bring your own WM as well. I reckon the Storm Banner would be golden here as well.

Kiras of the flame
21-10-2010, 04:35
I'd say get rid of the guns he has... and then roll in your hamster wheels of doom...

21-10-2010, 07:54
A large unit of plague monks will do well, as will one or two larger units of plague censor bearers (they will get to hit first, plus their fumes ignore armor)- the skirmish and so GT's are less effective against them, cannon's are useless against them, just avoid the organ gun- so a screening slave unit will do nicely-

Take two small units of 5 gutter runners, and the stormbanner- the stormbanner protects you on the first turn, then your gutter runners charge on turn 2- the goal is to keep the warmachines from shooting- don't worry so much about killing them if you can stop them from shooting you will have time and spare men later on in the game to take the warmachines out- Just don't take anything worth shooting- so don't take, an HPA, doomwheel, verminlord, stormvermin- and the only reason you are taking PM's is because they are frenzied and don't care about being shot-

Then get into combat as usual and use weapons teams and magic to grind him into nothing-

I would recommend not developing a strategy based around trying to take out his warmachines- he has prepared for this and has counter measures in place

21-10-2010, 08:04
yeah if he is bringing 1+ organ guns, gutter runners are a bad idea. i dont know how expensive they are, but they will be gone in 1-2 turns since the OG can just pivot and unload a whole lot of automatic hits. Then again, you don't really have a lot of other choices for hunting war machines. Perhaps bringing MANY gutter runners... 3 units of 10 will be roughly 1/5th of your army but can remove all of his war machines AND earn back their points. It will basically make it a 2000 point game with considerably less shooting :)

I play Dwarves and what would scare/annoy me would be:

-numerous gutter runners/night runners
-that rocket engineers can take (grr) say goodbye to hammerers
-steadfast god dang slaves
-rat ogres. they will actually tear up dwarf infantry unless they get shot to bits. i recommend a unit of 6 ogres.
-your lord with that bonebreaker guy. ouch.
-take magic. he might be a dwarf but i take heavy anti-magic and magic has still wrecked me a couple times.

bert n ernie
21-10-2010, 09:36
Some of the ideas mentioned are great. On the other hand, if you want to go the complete opposite you can take the Screaming Bell. The 4+ward and Storm Banner isn't quite enough to protect it from everything, so you will have to have something else to help protect it, but it can be very good against warmachines. It is risky though. I would try some of the above suggestions, and something all out like this as a last ditch effort, if those somehow don't work.
Poison Wind Mortars are great against Dwarves, as is the Anit-dwarf weapon, Dwarfbane.
On top of that the Grey Seer is almost a must have (preferably with a power scroll, even though I hate those things). Take an engineer to select Warp Lightening. Then The seer is very very likely to get Crack's call, and you can also swap out one of the spells for the 13th.
Dwarf lords(a big problem for skaven) can go down in one hit.

21-10-2010, 12:31
I played a game vs a pretty hard dwarf list recently, here's what I have to share:

*Numbers. Dwarfs simply can't handle a horde army very well, just grind him down with slaves and clanrats.
*Power Scroll. Since dwarf units are generally pretty small (well around 20 that is) The Thirteenth Spell can remove that anoying dwarf character if the unit is small enough. Think over your spell selection caerfully as some spells really can mess up his army.
*Storm Banner. Speaks for itself.
*Poison Wind Mortar. Anti-armour and anti-toughness weaponry, makes their units easier to overwhelm. Really powerful when they are stuck in with slaves also. Care though, they will likely be targets of cannons (unless you run anything else he wants to shoot at) so deploy them carefully.
*Gutter Runners. My unit of 5 with slings & poison took out a cannon, 2 grudge throwers and a unit of 10 warriors. I had some luck I must admitt though.
*Cannons, but only if you run multiple "shoot-at-me" targets. They can shoot down his warmachines, but with his automatic S10 he'll be more likely to shoot yours first, but it's not for sure and 90pts is a bargain for the potential damage.
*Battle Standard Bearer + Warlord. He'll be likely to cause lots of panic tests so make sure your units stay in place. A tooled out warlord is actually very nasty, mine chopped down a slayer hero, and runesmith and a bsb along with some other dwarfs.

I won my game, massacred him. What I've mentioned here is what was key to my victory.. hope it helps!

21-10-2010, 23:17
How effective do you guys think Jezzails are? I was just thinking that they could easily snipe out some crew members, or would they simply get shot out first and not be worth the 20 points per?

22-10-2010, 02:41
Ditto TheDrugLordX's post. Most of my victories versus the Dwarfs have come when I opted for a ridiculous number of rats in my list.

Just to add my own 2 cents...

Most important tip I can give you is not to waste time! Minimize his shooting/anvil damage by closing the distance and getting stuck in with his units ASAP! Most Dwarf players rarely bring more than 3 to 4 blocks which means you should have at least 2-3 blocks for every one of his. If... and only if you happen to neutralize/eliminate his Thunderers/Quarrelers & war machines early on then you can consider holding back and whittling down his blocks with magic or shooting before engaging in close combat.

If you and your opponent are tailoring your lists to suit the army then then to hell with magic, don't bother bringing casters. Put those points into more units!

Try to avoid bringing Large Targets. Bells, Furnaces, Abombs, Doomwheels, Vermin Lords are all cannonball magnets.

Remember to use Slaves to block LOS to your valuable units & weapons teams. A futile gesture versus an anvil but a necessity versus shooting & war machines.

Use Giant Rats and Rat Ogres to race up the flanks to support your Slaves and take away his rank bonus in combat. It is critical that you disrupt his blocks, you need all the CR you can get vs Dwarfs.

Gutter Runners. I never use less than two units of 6 - 8 versus Dwarfs. Poison w/slings of course. If his deployment (or the terrain) is not conducive to good Scouting positions deploy them as Secret Infiltrators in order to get into his rear area unmolested so they can multi-shoot his war machines. Take out those damn Grudge Throwers & Organ Throwers ASAP!

Equip your characters with as much armor negating items as possible (i.e. Warlord w/Dwarfbane).

Special Characters. Queek is THE Dwarf killer, he's absolutely brutal. Take Skweel if you want to juice up Rat Ogres (Regen being the best mutation you can hope for).

Consider buying as many non-caster Warlock Engineers as you can and equip them with Skyre toys (Doom Rocket, Brass Orb, Death Globes). Place one in each of your Slave blocks (preferably the largest ones) to boost Ld.

Avoid taking Jezzails. They seem like a good idea versus Dwarfs on paper but in practice they won't make much of a dent. Why?

1) They are always going to be shooting with -1 to Hit. The chances that a Dwarf unit will get within 18" to eliminate the Long Distance penalty are incredibly low. Sure, there's always the chance that a Gyrocopter or Miner block will get close enough but most of the time your Jezzails are hitting on 5s which will seriously curtail their killing power versus those large blocks and make it really hard for them to earn their points back.

2) If you bring tons of rats and don't get a hill in your deployment zone your Jezzails will have an extremely limited field of fire. If you get a hill and put your Jezzails on it your opponent may try to blast them with a template or the anvil in the hopes of killing enough to force a panic check. If the Jezzails fail their panic check (which they probably will at Ld 5) then they're sure to run right off the table (2D6+1) with little/no chance or rallying in the 1st or 2nd turn.

3) Stormbanner. The 800lb rat in the room. This item effectively defeats the point to taking Jezzails in the first place. Long Range + Stormbanner = -3 to Hit = Hitting on 7s = Pointless. The whole point to the Stormbanner is to defang Dwarf shooting in the first turn or two (or three... hopefully) thus keeping your rat blocks intact long enough to get stuck in with the Dwarfs. Unlike Jezzails the accuracy of the WLC, PWM & WFT are not affected by the banner.