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Lord Squidar
22-10-2010, 08:18
So basically last night I got screwed by ASF. I was fighting my nemesis (a hot young woman btw) and her high elves in the watchtower scenario. We always manage to get that mission when playing each other, and time and time again her unit of dragon princes charges across the battlefield, dismounts, climbs through the doors and kicks my battered units out.

So priority 1 was dragon princes, first turn dead. haha. I then proceeded to kick the snot out of every unit on the battlefield, and tried to budge seaguard from the tower. They usually slaughter 5-6 clanrats a turn with very few dead elves. I death frenzied the clan rats I sent in, and after killing the defenders, was left with 4 rats. her dismounted griffon rider (thanks warp lightning), who survived a fight with my asf init 8 assassin with blades of corruption because of his asf, charged in, killed the rats, and claimed the tower. It was not getting to dangerous levels as the game would end soon. I sent in a full block of plague monks, they got ousted since its on pure wounds. +2 reroll as and 4+ ward with gw and asf is all you need to defend the building again any odds!

So with a very sad heart, I lost the game in turn 5 with 100 skaven left on the board, and 1 elf prince! embarrassing... Now i know I could have warp lightning cannoned the building, or shot it with a flamer thrower, but she killed those quick. i realsed this morning that had i taken cracks call, i could have destroyed the tower and then fight over the rubble, a much easier task for my 200 rats.

So the crux of this long winded post is that there is another advantage to taking a grey seer over a warlord. he is the same ld, can get cracks call, and if mounted on a bell, i doubt that building will last at all, making it an easier win! I am not even going to try make a skaven character to kill other lords, i wish only for my lords to kill his bsbs and heros, thats it!

Darktan
22-10-2010, 11:23
and time and time again her unit of dragon princes charges across the battlefield, dismounts, climbs through the doors and kicks my battered units out.

How many Dragon Princes? say a unit of 6, thats only 13 S3 attacks re-rolling 3s to hit. thats not exactly going to kill a unit, even if it is depleted, and arn't you always steadfast in a building? not that skaven LD is that great.

otherwise, better luck next time eh? although you can always claim a moral victory as everything else is dead and you don't have an army of the biggest traitors of all time :shifty:

Lord Squidar
22-10-2010, 12:44
its still reroll to hit attacks so a large number of them go through and rats die. Its always in the last turn before i get a chance to counter charge, grrrrr!

Rochr
22-10-2010, 12:45
Try taking it away from 30 White Lions... yea thats right.

Malorian
22-10-2010, 12:49
Dragon princes are seriously the least of your worries.

I guess skaven have it rough when defending a watchtower since they don't have ranks (hurting their stubborn LD) but really your unit should have no trouble holding out for a turn and then have a horde of anything take it's place.

You would do well to look at my podcasts, especially the Watchtower Blitz that I recently put out :)

Lord Squidar
22-10-2010, 13:55
ok will do later when I am not at work... Thing is with the watch towers, its all down to timings. I had several units poised to assault the tower, as well as globadiers to throw some cynide through the windows and choke that bar steward out, but I went first, so she tossed my unit out in my assault phase and then i could do nothing in her phase, then game ended.

I am definately going to try my damnest to destroy all buildings when i play, will just make life easier. Ruin-ruin to the lands of the man-things.

russellmoo
22-10-2010, 14:32
If you are defending the watchtower nightrunners do a passable job at holding the tower- they have a LD 6, but hopefully your general and BSB are within 12", second they have two attacks a piece which really helps since all models get all of their attacks- third- they can stand and shoot when they are charged on that first turn-

Otherwise- Malorian is correct- your goal should be to switch out whatever unit starts out in the tower with 50 to 60 slaves with the BSB, and general nearby.

You also might be fast enough to surround the tower and just lock units combat around it-

Tarian
22-10-2010, 14:37
Was playing a Watchtower scenario with 4 other buildings around, by the end of the game, the bell had destroyed 4/5 buildings, including the watchtower. That game was hilarious. That said, a unit of Phoenix Guard, a BSB, an Archmage are beasts in the watchtower too.

decker_cky
22-10-2010, 15:23
Take a bell, and try to get cracks call on the seer. Skaven do badly in defending the watchtower, so deal with the fact that there's a watchtower.

If you can't do that, plague monks with a priest and the flaming banner are pretty solid for taking the watchtower.

SevenSins
22-10-2010, 16:21
A horde of PCB's perhaps? :p

I agree with the rest here, destroying the tower is the easiest way to deal with it, seconded by stuffing a massive unit inside

decker_cky
22-10-2010, 16:45
A BSB with the banner of discipline is relatively cheap and could get your watchtower up to Ld8 with reroll (and near infinite models from a huge clanrat or slave unit).

Lord Dan
22-10-2010, 16:50
(a hot young woman btw)

I think I have your solution. At the end of your next game recite the following verbatim:
"Ma'am, you are truly the superior gamer. Would you allow me to buy you dinner so you can give me some tips?"

Kevlar
22-10-2010, 17:39
20 or 30 plague censer bearers are what you need. Can anything match thier damage output defending a tower? With step up 10 always fight and that is 30 str 5 hatred attacks plus fumes every turn. I think they would even destroy white lions sword masters or chaos warriors.

Tarian
22-10-2010, 17:46
Swordmasters can match them, considering they're WS6, S5, and should beat the frenzy out of the Censers.

decker_cky
22-10-2010, 19:18
You sure about that? If you really took a huge unit of plague censer bearers, the swordmasters are screwed.

Swordmasters take 5 wounds from gas.

Censer bearers take 1.67 wounds from gas.

Swordmasters have 20 attacks, hitting on 3's with rerolls, wounding on 3's. 11.85 wounds.

Censer bearers have 30 attacks, hitting on 4's with rerolls, wounding on 2's. 18.75 wounds.

Net wounds:
Swordmasters lose 23.75 models
Censer bearers lose 13.51 models

Both units cost pretty much the same.

edit:

Also, the censer bearers can easily be stubborn leadership 10 if near a unit of plague monks with a furnace and in the general's Ld7 bubble. Stubborn 10 down to the last model.

Kevlar
22-10-2010, 19:40
You sure about that? If you really took a huge unit of plague censer bearers, the swordmasters are screwed.

Swordmasters take 5 wounds from gas.

Censer bearers take 1.67 wounds from gas.

Swordmasters have 20 attacks, hitting on 3's with rerolls, wounding on 3's. 11.85 wounds.

Censer bearers have 30 attacks, hitting on 4's with rerolls, wounding on 2's. 18.75 wounds.

Net wounds:
Swordmasters lose 23.75 models
Censer bearers lose 13.51 models

Both units cost pretty much the same.

edit:

Also, the censer bearers can easily be stubborn leadership 10 if near a unit of plague monks with a furnace and in the general's Ld7 bubble. Stubborn 10 down to the last model.

Yeah. Rat ogres are better in the open field due to the censer bearers sucking **** in subsequent combat phases, but in a tower where the flails and hatred never go away censers are just sick.

Trains_Get_Robbed
23-10-2010, 00:42
/I thought one only can have 10 men fight when inside a building correct? Thus, if you lose oh say 7 Plague Monks/Bearers, you only have 3 left in the tower.

Kevlar
23-10-2010, 02:02
/I thought one only can have 10 men fight when inside a building correct? Thus, if you lose oh say 7 Plague Monks/Bearers, you only have 3 left in the tower.

Nope. Read the rules, you still remove from the back even in a tower, so 10 men always get to fight unless the unit is reduced to less than 10.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
23-10-2010, 02:07
As an aside, can I just say that I believe it's unfair for the Skaven to lose their rank bonus whilst inside a building. The bonus to leadership is due to there being a lot of them around, and when crowded inside of a building that sense of well-being would definitely still be a factor. Ah well, you can always just destroy the tower.

Trains_Get_Robbed
23-10-2010, 05:12
Well, that isn't the most asinine thing I have ever heard. *glares at MRBR and sees Mat Ward's face manically laughing.

Lord Squidar
23-10-2010, 07:22
I guess the intention and fluff of SiN is that the more skaven there are the better they fight, which works in the open. But in a building? where is the enemy attacking from? how many of them are there? I cant escape and run away quickly, these are the things going through the paranoid ratmans mind, so no SiN can make sense.

Ok so for holding the tower, use plague censer bearers and try not to destroy it. Have a unit of plague monks sitting near by to give them ld 10 stubbon. possibly park the plague monks right flush with the tower, so that berzerker rage cant work!

for taking the tower, destroy it and then park a massive unit of clanies or slaves on it. Problem solved!