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Warp_touched
11-03-2006, 19:55
Ok, For all of you that have read the book 'Grey Hunter' by William King, You might understand where Im going with this. To take a hive city this army needs:
-12 warlord titans, along with an Emperor class titan, with unknown amounts of warhounds.
-Multiple amounts of baneblades
-10,000 Imp. guard

WTF?! Along with a space wolf chapter?!! And for some reason, the guard has Rhinos, not any ever mention of chimeras?! Guard dont have rhinos!
But well, then again, this place they're assualting does have turrets that can trash a warlord in one shot! But the space wolfs have to take out the power to stop these suckers, why not jusy shoot them?!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.
Not that I'm done, please either support, or trash my thoughts. The man that wrote this...doesnt know his 40k. Stick to Gotrex and Felix my friend.

ghost hunter
11-03-2006, 20:04
my god they must have been the crapist marines guard and titans ever!

Norminator
11-03-2006, 20:08
If you read the battle though, it makes sense.

The Chaos forces are summoning Magnus the Red, to give an idea of their power there. Also, this is a whole planet that has fallen into Chaos - think about how hard a hive world like armageddon fell, and how hard it was to battle!

I think that should give you my opinion. Also, the Space Wolf books are fantastic - I highly recommend them!

ankara halla
11-03-2006, 20:23
The man that wrote this...doesnt know his 40k...

Oh man did you get this wrong... it's exactly the other way around my friend.
Bill King and Ian Watson were the very first novelists to write about the 40k universe, they invented it with Rick Priestley.

Also, in the good old days of RT (when the whole 40k concept came to being) such things as chimeras didn't even exist and rhino's were the whole imperiums transport (and Land Riders were available to all imperial forces also, as were predators. No such things as Leman Russ battle tanks existed and all the forces of the Imperium used the same more or less the same equipment.)

That other writers and game developers have taken the 40k universe in new directions (such as no more rhinos for guard, what heresy!) hardly invalidates King's knowledge of the subject. He helped weane this game and the reality it's played in into existance.

King is the man.

Norminator
11-03-2006, 20:32
Oh man did you get this wrong... it's exactly the other way around my friend.
Bill King and Ian Watson were the very first novelists to write about the 40k universe, they invented it with Rick Priestley.

Also, in the good old days of RT (when the whole 40k concept came to being) such things as chimeras didn't even exist and rhino's were the whole imperiums transport (and Land Riders were available to all imperial forces also, as were predators. No such things as Leman Russ battle tanks existed and all the forces of the Imperium used the same more or less the same equipment.)

That other writers and game developers have taken the 40k universe in new directions (such as no more rhinos for guard, what heresy!) hardly invalidates King's knowledge of the subject. He helped weane this game and the reality it's played in into existance.

King is the man.

Hear hear!

I completely agree; it's obvious from King's books (especially the first one, Space Wolf) that he does know a lot about the Warhammer 40k Universe. My one critique would be that bolters don't seem to fire explosive rounds.

Ziljin
11-03-2006, 20:41
Maybe the Hive had hordes of their own tanks and soldiers that were equal to guardsmen

Brother Othorio
11-03-2006, 22:40
10,000 guardsmen seems pretty damned low to take a Hive even with a dozen warlords and an emperor

Tom
11-03-2006, 23:36
Baghdad took, ooh, 8000-10,000? And that was with low morale, ill equipped and incompetently led enemy, against (in 40K terms) a tiny city.

Ironhand
12-03-2006, 02:17
IIRC the Guard had Rhinos and Predators before the Horus Heresy, the Emperor restricted them to the Marines only after very heavy losses, before the final battle on Terra.

Minister
12-03-2006, 02:31
You do not. However, you are close. Land Raiders were restricted to the Marines after the loss of the main production facility (Anvilus IV? Not the point in any case).

The Russ is used due to ease of maintenance and production (and, presumably, because the Guard arn't as constrained on the ability to rapid-deploy their armour and so carrying it with a Thunderhawk transport is not a problem). The Chimera was, according to the release fluff, developed from the Basilisk because the Guard require a true IFV for fire support rather than a pure APC for rapid insertion.

Warp_touched
12-03-2006, 19:51
Hrm, it appears I have been totally proved wrong. But thats perfectly alright, I learned something from it all. But Im still in doubt... 12 warlords? In storm of Iron, 1 Emperor class titan takes down numerous Reavers, 1 warhound and a Warlord with relative ease, asides the reactor explosion at the end.
Also Norminator makes a great point, Think of Armageddon.

boogle
12-03-2006, 20:38
Don't forget it took nearly all of the Death's Head Legion of Titans just to crack the walls of the emperors palace (which includes multiple Imperator class titans)

Brother Othorio
12-03-2006, 21:37
imagine an ant hill, one of those african ones that are 8-15 feet tall, along comes a wizard who casts "Mud to Steel" on the ant hill, its now made of solid steel, its full of tunnels and things for the ants to go too and fro, but its made of solid steel.

now place a dozen cans of baked beans on the ground next to the ant hill, take a shotgun and shoot each of the tin cans, the tin cans are reaver/warlord titans and the shotgun is the Emperor titan, sure the shotgun can make short work of the tin cans, but whats it going to do against the ant hill(hive)? it can blast away till the cows come home and maybe score the paintwork, but it cant go in and get the ants, the only way to deal with them is to send in an army of your own ants into the hive

Norminator
12-03-2006, 21:56
Love the metaphor Othorio!

cspo
13-03-2006, 03:03
another metaphor, concerning the Baghdad comment-

the "shock and awe" tactic implemented by the us military would prbably be very similar to a dozen titans. So not just 8000-10000 men and women, but also 2000-3000 bombs and missiles.

edit: spelling

Escaflowne_Z
13-03-2006, 10:13
Also, you have to remember that the SWs were only there since their sacred item was onplanet. Otherwise they wouldn't even have been there and the siege would have lasted MUCH longer and Imperial casualties would have been MUCH higher.

HPD_Andy
13-03-2006, 14:04
[QUOTE=ankara halla]Oh man did you get this wrong... it's exactly the other Also, in the good old days of RT (when the whole 40k concept came to being) such things as chimeras didn't even exist and rhino's were the whole imperiums transport (and Land Riders were available to all imperial forces also, as were predators. No such things as Leman Russ battle tanks existed and all the forces of the Imperium used the same more or less the same equipment.)
You beat me two it. If you look in the old RT book there are loads of drawings with guard and what would be considered space marine only equipment now.

wilsonian
13-03-2006, 14:28
the only way to deal with them is to send in an army of your own ants into the hive

Thats class! LOL

it sounds like a good book. might have to get it....

sulla
13-03-2006, 16:32
WTF?! Along with a space wolf chapter?!! And for some reason, the guard has Rhinos, not any ever mention of chimeras?! Guard dont have rhinos!


I think you're confusing armybooks with armies. Not everything an army can use is in an armybook. You can only fit about 20 unit entries into an army book but an army as diverse as the IG has way more possibilities.

In terms of transport options, I would imagine there are guard regiments with rhino's, valkyries, termites and probably even LRDP-type armies where the transport is divided between light jeep-type vehicles and mutant space-camels. Just because it's not in an armybook doesn't mean it doesn't happen. An armybook is just a snapshot of the whole army, not it's entirety.

Xhalax
13-03-2006, 20:03
Though if memory serves, the Space Wolves were there in force because the world thats in peril is somewhat sacred to them.

Had it been any other world, I'm sure that the Wolves wouldn't have sent so many Marines there.