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Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 15:14
I've always been a fan of Forge World's pet Chapter. Their uniform MKIV appearance and color scheme really is appealing to me.

As I've never bought any of their books, I'd like to know more about them. They are one of my options for starting a Loyalist army (my strongest choice atm is Flesh Tearers). I want to have an accurate picture of them.

So far what I know (from Lexicanum):
-The love the codex, almost to equal to the Ultramarines
-They have lots of Apothecaries
-They distrust mutants and psykers (that arn't RSs)
-They have a snazzy Land Raider
-They were in the Imperial Armor with the Tyranids, I don't remember any others but know they were in a few more
-Act and War-make like a codex Chapter, rarely deviating from anything set in stone
-They had some info in the old RT era (just a guess based off a picture http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Red_Scorpion_Marine.jpg )
-Were in the Badab War and Vraks

If I was going to play them, I'd use either the Space Marine or Blood Angels codex. The Blood Angels mainly because I can take a lot of Priests (Apothecaries). The Red Thirst could be them being 'overzealous' and wanting to purge the enemies of the Emperor. I would make sure all units could be played with either codex (no Hand-Flamers, Infernus Pistols, Baal Predators etc).

If anyone has more info on the Red Scorpions, or better yet has read them in the IA books, any advice on how to play them would be greatly appreciated.

Things I want to know are:
-What units to take and what to avoid
-Do they have any interesting bits of fluff
-Would it be that bad to use Blood Angels codex
-Any info on their philosophy and personal beliefs
-There interactions with other Space Marines (I love seeing different Chapters interact in the BL and fluff)

Thanks for any help.

AndrewGPaul
27-10-2010, 16:26
-They have a snazzy Land Raider-They had some info in the old RT era (just a guess based off a picture http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Red_Scorpion_Marine.jpg )
-Were in the Badab War and Vraks

If I was going to play them, I'd use either the Space Marine or Blood Angels codex. The Blood Angels mainly because I can take a lot of Priests (Apothecaries). The Red Thirst could be them being 'overzealous' and wanting to purge the enemies of the Emperor. I would make sure all units could be played with either codex (no Hand-Flamers, Infernus Pistols, Baal Predators etc).

If anyone has more info on the Red Scorpions, or better yet has read them in the IA books, any advice on how to play them would be greatly appreciated.

Things I want to know are:
-What units to take and what to avoid
-Do they have any interesting bits of fluff
-Would it be that bad to use Blood Angels codex
-Any info on their philosophy and personal beliefs
-There interactions with other Space Marines (I love seeing different Chapters interact in the BL and fluff)

Thanks for any help.

Get Imperial Armour volume 9: The Badab War part 1. That'll give you rules for Lord High Commander Culln (i.e. the Chapter Master), whose Chapter Tactics rule allows you to make squad sergeants Apothecaries. No need to use the Blood Angels codex. You also get the rules for their Chief Librarian, too.

What special Land Raider? Do you mean the Helios, with a Whirlwind multi-launcher turret? They may have invented it, but it's no more exclusive than the Crusader.

That pic from WD 101 is the sum total of their Rogue Trader-era fluff. :)

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 16:57
Get Imperial Armour volume 9: The Badab War part 1. That'll give you rules for Lord High Commander Culln (i.e. the Chapter Master), whose Chapter Tactics rule allows you to make squad sergeants Apothecaries. No need to use the Blood Angels codex. You also get the rules for their Chief Librarian, too.

What special Land Raider? Do you mean the Helios, with a Whirlwind multi-launcher turret? They may have invented it, but it's no more exclusive than the Crusader.

That pic from WD 101 is the sum total of their Rogue Trader-era fluff. :)
Hmm maybe. I don't exactly like the idea of spending $90+ on a book for an army I MIGHT play.

Also, while I find the FW rules interesting to say the least, I'd rather have an army I could take to tournaments.

Lord_Crull
27-10-2010, 17:00
-The love the codex, almost to equal to the Ultramarines


They love their interpretation of the Codex. They still technically diverge when one considers the additional Apothecaries and refusal of camo, both non-Codex items since the Codex is about all-round flexiblitiy.


Get Imperial Armour volume 9: The Badab War part 1. That'll give you rules for Lord High Commander Culln (i.e. the Chapter Master), whose Chapter Tactics rule allows you to make squad sergeants Apothecaries. No need to use the Blood Angels codex. You also get the rules for their Chief Librarian, too.


You need your opponet's permission to use Forge World Rules. In tournies you can't use them generally.



-What units to take and what to avoid


If you are going to use the BA Codex then don't take BA specific items. Scouts also would be restricted. IA:4's old rules had only a single squad of Scouts could be taken and they could nto use infiltrate or stealth.



-Do they have any interesting bits of fluff


According to IA:4 Culln is heading the loyalist side. They also are isolationist and secretive. They take recruits from birth and raise them themselves.



-Would it be that bad to use Blood Angels codex


If I were you, I would play them with the Blood Angels Codex and see how you like it first before going for the Forge World book with everything.

Actually you could use Mephiston, Severin Loth in the fluff is meant to be a ridiculously strong psyker who prefers melee combat. You can't take his Honor Guard, but otherwise it's not a huge stretch.



-Any info on their philosophy and personal beliefs


Obsessed with purity and such. Hate abhumans and camoflage.



-There interactions with other Space Marines (I love seeing different Chapters interact in the BL and fluff)


They would get along poorly with the Wolves and chapters like the Blood Angels or Raven Guard.

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 17:07
They love their interpretation of the Codex. They still technically diverge when one considers the additional Apothecaries and refusal of camo, both non-Codex items since the Codex is about all-round flexiblitiy.
Okay, looking like C:SM would be their best bet.


You need your opponet's permission to use Forge World Rules. In tournies you can't use them generally.
Agreed


If you are going to use the BA Codex then don't take BA specific items. Scouts also would be restricted. IA:4's old rules had only a single squad of Scouts could be taken and they could nto use infiltrate or stealth.
The biggest thing would be justifiying fast vehicles.


According to IA:4 Culln is heading the loyalist side. They also are isolationist and secretive. They take recruits from birth and raise them themselves.
I understand the Isolationist part, thought doesn't every Marine chapter do so for their recruits?


If I were you, I would play them with the Blood Angels Codex and see how you like it first before going for the Forge World book with everything.

Actually you could use Mephiston, Severin Loth in the fluff is meant to be a ridiculously strong psyker who prefers melee combat. You can't take his Honor Guard, but otherwise it's not a huge stretch.
lol I had actually thought that up, or at least using him as a normal Librarian and his HG for my HG. Does anyone know his rules yet for FW?


Obsessed with purity and such. Hate abhumans and camoflage.
Okay so they are the OCD Marines who wash their hands every 10 minutes :p
How exactly would that translate to the TT?


They would get along poorly with the Wolves and chapters like the Blood Angels or Raven Guard.
Sounds like fun, nothing like some sibling rivalry. I like to write up lots of background and stories so stuff like that is gold to know. Any known interactions like the Raven Guard and White Scars fighting the Alpha Legion?

Lord_Crull
27-10-2010, 17:10
I see your first and agreed with the second, it looks like C:SM would be the best representation for them. That goes back to my questions, how exactly would I field them? I'd prefer to not use a SC that gives Chapter Tactics, as I love being able to fail a Ldr test. It has saved to many games for me not to want to lose it. If I did use a SC it would have to be Sicarius, though I'm leaning on using a Librarian for most games.

Well I edited the rest of my post. Just to let you know.

I would probably have Tigurius has a counts as Loth or Sicarius as a Captain. Culln can be represented by a Chapter Master with a power sword (Regular Chapter Masters can't take relic blades in Termie armor)

Although I would test out both codices to see what worked best.



The biggest thing would be justifiying fast vehicles.


That would be hard I guess.



I understand the Isolationish part, thought doesn't every Marine chapter do so for their recruits?


Most Marine chapters recruit around the early teens for their recruits. The Red Scorpions recruit people as babies and raise them from birth. Most other recruits have some influanece from their homeworld (Fenris Space Wolves, Macragge and Ultramarines, etc, etc)

The Red Scorpions have no tribal influences at all because of this.



lol I had actually thought that up, or at least using him as a normal Librarian and his HG for my HG. Does anyone know his rules yet for FW?


I know he is a beast ruleswise, but I know nothing exactly.



Okay so they are the OCD Marines who wash their hands every 10 minutes :p
How exactly would that translate to the TT?


It's rather hard to really. Maybe taking alot of flamers? I guess you could sandwich Vulkan in as some sort of extremely zealous Captain, but you wanted Combat Tactics.

A Command Squad is a must of course.

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 17:17
Well I edited the rest of my post. Just to let you know.

I would probably have Tigurius has a counts as Loth or Sicarius as a Captain. Culln can be represented by a Chapter Master with a power sword (Regular Chapter Masters can't take relic blades in Termie armor)

Although I would test out both codices to see what worked best.
To be honest I wasn't planning on using the specific RS characters, at most using their models. I prefer to make my HQ up and convert them unique. For example I'd base my army around the 4th Company, then use the template to make the whole Co, with added attachments.

What I'm really looking for is what is the "Soul" of the Red Scorpions. If they could be personified in one person, what would he be like? I'll use Ultramarines as an example.
He would be stern and stoic, but always willing to help a friend. He would be a little bit of a control-freak, always trying to have control over everything in his life. He'd have a good work-ethic, never lax or lazy and always planning ahead. He would be a natural leader, with plenty of charisma. He would have no problem tackling problems and organizing solutions. He would always be calm, never letting himself be baited or goaded.
Hope I'm clear enough by what I meant.


Well I edited the rest of my post. Just to let you know.

I would probably have Tigurius has a counts as Loth or Sicarius as a Captain. Culln can be represented by a Chapter Master with a power sword (Regular Chapter Masters can't take relic blades in Termie armor)
I'd use Sicarious to represent my Captain, who would have wargear and a background explaining his bonuses and wargear. Like I said though a generic Librarian is my favored HQ.


Most Marine chapters recruit around the early teens for their recruits. The Red Scorpions recruit people as babies and raise them from birth. Most other recruits have some influanece from their homeworld (Fenris Space Wolves, Macragge and Ultramarines, etc, etc)

The Red Scorpions have no tribal influences at all because of this.
Ahhh, I see what you mean there. Guess so, so the RS would have their own customs, language, mannerisms that they get while raised from the RS serfs?


It's rather hard to really. Maybe taking alot of flamers? I guess you could sandwich Vulkan in as some sort of extremely zealous Captain, but you wanted Combat Tactics.

A Command Squad is a must of course.
That wouldn't be that hard for me to do. Would convert my Captain to have a Shield and Spear/Halberd maybe. They can use special ammunition to account for the twin-linked. Since Vulkan's Chapter Tactics seem to give the Marines the biggest benefits I wouldn't be againts ajusting to use him for Tournaments. Though like I said I do love Combat Tactics. I also have no problem with Command Squads, as I can take one with Vulkan if need be.

Col. Dash
27-10-2010, 20:02
I dont know how the new IA book treats them but in original fluff the RS were reassigned and replaced with another chapter during the middle stages of the Badab campaign because they refused to play well and act as a team with the other chapters as they saw them as less pure than themselves. If you think the ultramorons have big heads and egos, you havent met the red scorpions. Still my second favorite loyalist chapter though.

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 20:08
I dont know how the new IA book treats them but in original fluff the RS were reassigned and replaced with another chapter during the middle stages of the Badab campaign because they refused to play well and act as a team with the other chapters as they saw them as less pure than themselves. If you think the ultramorons have big heads and egos, you havent met the red scorpions. Still my second favorite loyalist chapter though.

I don't think the Ultramarines have big egos. I actually am one of the few people that actually agrees with Graham's interpretation of them (though not exactly his books).

What is this original fluff you know from?

Lord_Crull
27-10-2010, 20:22
I dont know how the new IA book treats them but in original fluff the RS were reassigned and replaced with another chapter during the middle stages of the Badab campaign because they refused to play well and act as a team with the other chapters as they saw them as less pure than themselves. If you think the ultramorons have big heads and egos, you havent met the red scorpions. Still my second favorite loyalist chapter though.

The Ultramarines as a whole don't really have big egos. The Deathwatch book notes they are one of the most diplomatic chapters and cooperate well with others. In Defenders of Ultramar Learchus refuses honors from the Governor of Espandor, stating that he defended them out of duty, not glory.

Of course you have guys like Sicarius, but as a whole the Ultramarines really are one of the nicer chapters.


What I'm really looking for is what is the "Soul" of the Red Scorpions. If they could be personified in one person, what would he be like? I'll use Ultramarines as an example.
He would be stern and stoic, but always willing to help a friend. He would be a little bit of a control-freak, always trying to have control over everything in his life. He'd have a good work-ethic, never lax or lazy and always planning ahead. He would be a natural leader, with plenty of charisma. He would have no problem tackling problems and organizing solutions. He would always be calm, never letting himself be baited or goaded.
Hope I'm clear enough by what I meant.


I would put the Red Scorpions as proud and detirmined Imperial Champions. They operate all over the galaxy and don't really tie themselves down to any one Primarch, isntead they just follow the Emperor. They represent the furthest notions of xenophobia and purity among the Astartes, whcih is both a good thing or a bad thing depending how you look at it. They are arrogant, but also pure and will not hestiate to help others in situations that they might not be suited for, like Vraks.

Red Scorpions IA:


The Red Scorpions’ beliefs remain something of a mystery. They do not seem to venerate any Primarch above any other, preferring instead to venerate only the Emperor. They revere Roboute Guilleman as the author of the Codex Astartes, and this has been taken to indicate that the Red Scorpions may be a successor of the Ultramarines, but there is little evidence to support this, and without detailed comparative investigation into the Chapter’s geneseed, (prescribed by the Chapter itself), no evidence can be gathered.

The Red Scorpions are strict adherents to the Codex Astartes, although their Chaplain’s have their own interpretation of the text. As they see it, they do not deviate from it in any way. Those Chapters that deviate are suspect in the Red Scorpions’ eyes. As a Chapter they are extremely xenophobic, hating all aliens and all deviation from the pure human form. They will not serve alongside abhumans, and have littleliking for other fighting forces, which they view as inferior and untrustworthy.



I'd use Sicarious to represent my Captain, who would have wargear and a background explaining his bonuses and wargear. Like I said though a generic Librarian is my favored HQ.


Honestly, Sicarius is pretty easy to justify. He's just a Captain with a special sword trick, a suit of armor that gives him feel no pain and good leadership. He's the easiest to justify out of all the Named characters in the book.

Although if you are ever going to make a Captain I myself use a Captain with Relic Blade and Storm Shield. He's Cheaper and generally more effective in most lists than Sicarius. With Sicarius you really have to build a list around him.



Ahhh, I see what you mean there. Guess so, so the RS would have their own customs, language, mannerisms that they get while raised from the RS serfs?


Yeah, they have last names, but since they are raised from birth I guess they choose their own names or something.



That wouldn't be that hard for me to do. Would convert my Captain to have a Shield and Spear/Halberd maybe. They can use special ammunition to account for the twin-linked. Since Vulkan's Chapter Tactics seem to give the Marines the biggest benefits I wouldn't be againts ajusting to use him for Tournaments. Though like I said I do love Combat Tactics. I also have no problem with Command Squads, as I can take one with Vulkan if need be.

Well since Red Scorpions are heavy with Apothecaries and the only way to take an Apothecary is with the command squad, I thought it would be a good choice.

Or if you really want to go with the theme you could just take two Captains and have one fluffwise as your actual Captain and the other as the Chapter Champion. That gives you two Apothecaries there.

Also, Captains are referred to as ''Commanders'' in the fluff.

Also from their IA.


The Captains of each company of the Red Scorpions are known by the honorary title of ‘Commander’. The Chapter Master is traditionally called the ‘Lord High Commander’. As a matter of tradition, the Chapter’s second-in-command is always the Master of the Apothecaries.

Sparowl
27-10-2010, 20:26
They love their interpretation of the Codex. They still technically diverge when one considers the additional Apothecaries and refusal of camo, both non-Codex items since the Codex is about all-round flexiblitiy.

So.... Just like the ultramarines? The chapter that suddenly decided to make their own units of specialist hunters (tyrannic war veterans)?

I would say use whatever codex you want for the red scorpions.

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 20:26
Just posted a list, tell me what you guys think:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5080940#post5080940


So.... Just like the ultramarines? The chapter that suddenly decided to make their own units of specialist hunters (tyrannic war veterans)?

I would say use whatever codex you want for the red scorpions.

I will, but I want to avoid making trouble for myself. I don't want someone bitching to me more about using the "right" codex. At this point I could go either way, once I get home for leave I will bring my codex books back with me, in the mean time I'm stuck with C:BA. Most the units have the same costs so it's no big deal.

Lord_Crull
27-10-2010, 20:33
So.... Just like the ultramarines? The chapter that suddenly decided to make their own units of specialist hunters (tyrannic war veterans)?


Nope, not quite. The Tyrannic War Veterans encountered difficulties in their own chapter. I can't imagine many of the more staunch Ultramarines are pleased by them. And they are a recent invention, the Red Scorpions have deviated for five thousand years and have deviated more, you can't really compare the two that much.

Johnnyfrej
27-10-2010, 21:22
Nope, not quite. The Tyrannic War Veterans encountered difficulties in their own chapter. I can't imagine many of the more staunch Ultramarines are pleased by them. And they are a recent invention, the Red Scorpions have deviated for five thousand years and have deviated more, you can't really compare the two that much.

Plus, arn't "Sternguard" more or less the evolved form of the Tyrannic War Veterans?

HerrDusty
27-10-2010, 22:15
I haven't read Severin Loth's rules properly but I do know he has a psychic power that gives him a 2+ inv save when he casts it until the start of his next turn, and the power cannot be stopped by psychic hoods, runic staves, etc.

Pretty meaty.

Garven Dreis
27-10-2010, 22:40
Plus, arn't "Sternguard" more or less the evolved form of the Tyrannic War Veterans?

Basically, the Tyrannic War Vets had special issue ammunition, but then again, so did Deathwatch Kill-Team members. Sternguard are more of an amalgamation of the two.

AndrewGPaul
27-10-2010, 23:08
You need your opponet's permission to use Forge World Rules. In tournies you can't use them generally.

So? The OP says nothing about tournaments.

As for the off-topic discussion of Tyrannic War veterans, to me they're nothing more than Sternguard with a rather specialised skillset. An accident of circumstance, not a deliberate 'deviance'.

Lord_Crull
27-10-2010, 23:48
So? The OP says nothing about tournaments.


Read the other posts.



Also, while I find the FW rules interesting to say the least, I'd rather have an army I could take to tournaments.

AndrewGPaul
28-10-2010, 00:11
What other posts? The post in which I suggested buying IA9 was the first reply. :)

Cry of the Wind
28-10-2010, 00:27
Reading all the stuff on them in IA:4, Vraks and now in IA:9 I would say go for the standard marine codex. They seem to be very middle ground as far as tactics go with all methods of war used. If you are going to get only one book make it IA:9 as it has the most info for you buck (including the Special Characters).

Blood Angels only bring the Apothecaries into play and the rest doesn't really fit them well. They are zealous for sure but not blood frenzied like BA and the odd units in the BA codex don't really fit. Better to use the standard book to avoid any confusion and cries of bandwagoning.

Lord_Crull
28-10-2010, 01:23
What other posts? The post in which I suggested buying IA9 was the first reply. :)

I just quoted one.



Also, while I find the FW rules interesting to say the least, I'd rather have an army I could take to tournaments.

He then posted right after you (Talking about how he wanted a Tournament army) then I posted pointing out that Forge World was generally not allowed in Tournaments. Essentially I was restating what he already said about tournaments and armies.

I really don't know how to put it simpler than that.

Garven Dreis
28-10-2010, 06:42
I'd definitely use Codex: Space Marines to represent the Red Scorpions if you don't want to touch the Forge World rules. Nothing really stops you from modelling your Sergeants as Apothecaries, as long as your opponent is clear on what counts as what.

AndrewGPaul
28-10-2010, 08:27
I just quoted one.

Yes, which was posted after my post suggesting IA9. :rolleyes: Since when I posted he hadn't mentioned tournaments, I could hardly "Read the other posts" which didn't exist.

Sorry, it's just that your comments in your first two posts read like I'm being got at for ignoring the OP's criteria, which isn't the case.

Regarding medics and Codex: Blood Angels, I don't think that's a good fit - aren't the Sanguinary Priests independent characters? The medics in a Red Scorpions force are part of the squad, not another guy hanging around.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2010, 08:53
Okay, I've come to the decision to use C:SM if I decide to play Red Scorpions.
1.) Decide on codex, check
2.) Build an army, not check
3.) ???
4.) Profit

So know I need to know what to take. Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield is definately an option. I do like Sternguard (will use the Red Scorpion conversion kits with Umbra Ferrox Boltguns).

I would like to have a full Company at some point. Maybe something like this:

Captain (Vulkan count-as) and Command Squad
Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield
Chaplain with Jump Pack

Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Fist, Meltagun and Multi-Melta
Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Weapon, Flamer and Multi-Melta
Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Fist, Plasma Gun and Plasma Cannon
Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Weapon; Flamer and Plasma Cannon
Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Fist; Plasma Gun and Lascannon
Tactical Squad; Sergeant has Power Weapon; Meltagun and Lascannon

Assault Squad; Sergeant has Power Fist; Flamer and Meltagun
Assault Squad; Sergeant has Thunder Hammer; Flamer and Meltagun

Devastator Squad; 4 Missile Launchers
Devastator Squad; 4 Missile Launchers

Then whatever vehicles take my fancy. This would only be for big games and display, for tournament games would obviously take optimal configurations.

Anyone have an idea on what a Red Scorpions force would usually consist of? I'm thinking for 1.5k range something like:

Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield

5 Assault Terminators
Ironclad Dreadnaught, Drop Pod
Ironclad Dreadnaught, Drop Pod

10 Tactical Marines; Sergeant has Power Fist, Meltagun and Multi-Melta, Rhino
10 Tactical Marines; Sergeant has Power Fist, Meltagun and Multi-Melta, Rhino
10 Tactiacl Marines; Sergeant has Power Fist, Meltagun and Lascannon, Drop Pod (combat squad)
5 Scouts; CCW/BP, Sergeant has Power Fist and Combi-Melta
5 Scouts; CCW/BP, Sergeant has Power Fst and Combi-Melta

Land Speeder Storm; Heavy Flamer
Land Speeder Storm; Heavy Flamer

I don't have my C:SM on me, about how many points is this army?

AdamR
28-10-2010, 10:16
Vulkan cant take a command squad.

And you cant have meltaguns in C:SM assault squads.

EDIT - second list is 1735 points.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2010, 11:40
Vulkan cant take a command squad.

And you cant have meltaguns in C:SM assault squads.

EDIT - second list is 1735 points.

Oh, forgot about the Assault Marines only having Flamers or Plasma Pistols for C:SM.

Are you sure? Says "any Captain" as I recall.

Not bad, I can drop both Scouts squads and their Speeders and that would be around 1500 correct?

Cry of the Wind
28-10-2010, 12:24
Vulkan isn't a Captain by the rules I'm pretty sure. I don't see anything that Red Scorpions should be taking in particular besides a command squad to get a "real" Apothecary in the list. Of course to avoid confusion if you want to leave them out so that your tactical squads can have Apothecaries without causing confusion that might be a good idea too.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2010, 12:55
Vulkan isn't a Captain by the rules I'm pretty sure. I don't see anything that Red Scorpions should be taking in particular besides a command squad to get a "real" Apothecary in the list. Of course to avoid confusion if you want to leave them out so that your tactical squads can have Apothecaries without causing confusion that might be a good idea too.

That's a good question, since he was/is Captain of the fourth Company. You could interperate his role as in addition to his Captaincy.

Zweischneid
28-10-2010, 13:04
That's a good question, since he was/is Captain of the fourth Company. You could interperate his role as in addition to his Captaincy.

I think "was" is the key word. The background entry in the Codex states that the Chapter demanded (!) that "he set down his burdens as commander of the 4th Company and don the mantle of Forgefather".

The rules in the Codex represent him as a Forgefather. The 4th Company Command Squad would at this time serve the subsequent Captain of the 4th Company.

If you'd want to represent a "historic" Captain He'stan, you'd arguably need to use the "generic Captain" to build him and not use the Forgefather SC.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2010, 14:00
I think "was" is the key word. The background entry in the Codex states that the Chapter demanded (!) that "he set down his burdens as commander of the 4th Company and don the mantle of Forgefather".

The rules in the Codex represent him as a Forgefather. The 4th Company Command Squad would at this time serve the subsequent Captain of the 4th Company.

If you'd want to represent a "historic" Captain He'stan, you'd arguably need to use the "generic Captain" to build him and not use the Forgefather SC.

Good point, oh well no Command for Vulkan than.

Does anyone have any ideas or builds that would suit the Red Scorpions?

Grimmeth
28-10-2010, 15:00
I'd go for picking models that look similar to the Forgeworld ones. Therefore:
Librarian on Foot/Tigurius - Sevrin Loth, he could lead a unit of Vanguard Veterans on foot (to represent Honour Guard)
Commander in Terminator Armour with Power Weapon - Commander Culln
Commander with Jump Pack - Sergeant Culln
I'd suggest the other Special characters aren't going to realistically fit very well, they promote specialised fighting styles that aren't really present in the Red Scorpions. You'd probably be better with generic characters (you could likely get away with Sicarius) as other Captains and Librarians.

Reason being for this is I'm going to tread the middle ground - you could write a list for both IA9 and Codex Space Marines? If in a tournament you can use the C:SM list and in friendlier games use the IA9 list?
IA9 sounds as though it is going to be at least worth looking at at some point due to it having all the background for the Red Scorpions as well as?

Lord_Crull
28-10-2010, 15:36
Yes, which was posted after my post suggesting IA9. :rolleyes: Since when I posted he hadn't mentioned tournaments, I could hardly "Read the other posts" which didn't exist.


...........And? I posted the ''read the other posts'' comment well after both you and he had I posted in that thread. You really have no excuse here.

You already asked were the tournament comment was after he had posted it and clarified his position twice.


Sorry, it's just that your comments in your first two posts read like I'm being got at for ignoring the OP's criteria, which isn't the case.


You posted asking were the OP talked about tournaments and I gave you an example of were he did. Anything else is not my problem.


Regarding medics and Codex: Blood Angels, I don't think that's a good fit - aren't the Sanguinary Priests independent characters? The medics in a Red Scorpions force are part of the squad, not another guy hanging around.

As I said before, playest around to see what you like.

And no, going off the force dispostions in IA:6 I would say that you can have both attatched Apothecaries and regular sergants.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2010, 20:55
After a lot of thought and soul-searching I've decided the Red Scorpions are not for me. The closest Loyalist legion/chapter I see mysel playing is either going to be Raven Guard or Flesh Tearers.

Thank you for all your help, input and advice.