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MarshalFaust
27-10-2010, 20:52
From what I understand about the legions during the great crusade, they all varied greatly in organization but were the non-astartes elements (army, navy, etc) part of the legion itself or were they separate? I get the impression that some of these elements especially the fleet ships actually belonged to the respective legion. so for instance the IV legion consisted of the Iron Warriors astartes, the fleet of battleships and transports, and the imperial army regiments.

so am I correct in assuming that when the Heresy broke out the traitor legions were actually more than just the space marines that went rogue but the former imperial navy and army regiments as well?

Joewrightgm
27-10-2010, 21:09
From what I've read, the legions really the main fighting body of the crusade, and army and other elements attached as dedicated support.

And you are correct, with the navy and army turning as well, that is why the Heresy was such a rough time, is that the regiments and ships attached to or that had a long-standing relationship with a traitor legion could have turned with them or not.

That is why the Codex Astartes dictated the severing of the legions into chapters, and the Army became the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy, because originally the army had direct control over the deployment of fleet assets.

MarshalFaust
27-10-2010, 21:23
the reason im asking is im wanting to add some traitor guard elements to my iron warriors army for Apocalypse games, and was trying to work out if it made sense to paint them in an iron warriors theme and say they are the remnants of the army regiments that were originally attached to the IV legion.

Joewrightgm
27-10-2010, 21:27
Well, if you're into Iron Warriors, I would definitely check out Storm of Iron by Graham Mcneill. This book, not only being a great read, but will give you a glimpse at the humans that follow the Iron Warriors.

Mostly, the traitors in the book wear red coveralls, carrying ballistic and las weapons. I doubt though that any of them were original army troopers, because of the attrition warfare that Iron Warriors often engage in.

Also, as a point of pride the Iron Warriors would probably kill anyone who tried to wear their colors.

Garven Dreis
27-10-2010, 21:29
the reason im asking is im wanting to add some traitor guard elements to my iron warriors army for Apocalypse games, and was trying to work out if it made sense to paint them in an iron warriors theme and say they are the remnants of the army regiments that were originally attached to the IV legion.

This is entirely plausible, as even Post-Heresy, the previous Chaos Codex mentioned that the Iron Warriors frequently use slave soldiers to waste the enemy's ammunition and identify weak points. I say go for it, also the Tyrant's Legion army list from IA: 9 can give you some inspiration.

MarshalFaust
27-10-2010, 21:43
I was envisioning them as more successors to the original army regiments not the actual men and machines that took part in the heresy as they would obviously all be dead by now.

its been a very long time since i have read storm of iron, it was the book that originally inspired me to start playing iron warriors. maybe i should go back and re-read it as i dont really remember too much about the human followers.

thanks Garven, il check out IA 9 that does sound interesting

A Shadow
28-10-2010, 00:50
They were seperate entities. The Legio Astartes was the Legions (the Marines and whatever serfs they had) and the Imperial Army was all the soldiers and ships that weren't of the Legion.

Generally the Army elements answered to the Legions, but several instances in the Horus Heresy books have regular humans commanding Space Marine groups assigned to them.

While it is a really cool idea, the Iron Warriors disgust in human weakness would suggest that they wouldn't use humans as anything but wall fodder.

It is stated somewhere that most of the Army units that fought with the renegades also turned.