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Little Joe
28-10-2010, 10:47
As for reference to what GW has to say on the matter apart from the useless remark to mount them on Skaven bell bases, I wanted to wait to see what happened to war machines regarding bases for the Skaven to get some or not. But I do not want to stall projects, so I thought to ask you in the meantime.

As I am redoing all of my war machines for 8th (O&G:8, dwarfs:15 with gyrocopters) here are some ideas I had regarding rules, to avoid rule issues:
1. Charges, shooting and templates are done referring to the war machine itself. So I think a round base the size of the war machine is the best to avoid rule issues. For example CC: you rank up to the war machine, the crew no longer steps up and stands in between. They are just tokens to be attacked by 6 nominated enemy troopers that's all, no need for base contact there.
2. Say I made a larger square base to have a nice rank up, then the shooting and magic phase might be troublesome with some players. "The base is in range" vs. "But the war machine is not". Or what does a template hit; even cannonballs are some kind of template nowadays.
3. And there is the thing with free rotation to point it at the target for measuring distance. It would be fairer to me and opponents if it is done with a round base not shifting position as well.
4. Also my shots are resolved from a stationary point on the base which should be in the centre or at the rim for rotations to keep it completely fair.
5. Now to avoid people getting ideas I think it is best to put my crews on round bases, clearly indicating as just wound tokens. I do want to put one crew on the war machine base to signal where the last wound is, since you need to remove the machine with it anyhow.
6. Round bases reinforce the fact that it's not treated like a normal unit with flanks and rear.

Also I already found a company in Germany (http://shop.strato.de/epages/61438940.sf/de_AT/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61438940/Products/ZuschnittRund3mm60-200mm) to laser cut bases to size at a reasonable price, but the minimum size is 60mm. Since I magnetize bases (and trays) it is no longer needed to put them in a tray for easy transport and deployment, might be for good looks but costs and does not add to playability. GW bases are 3mm thick by the way.
For 50mm round bases I could go to http://www.productsforwargamers.com/accessories/basesplastic.html and also order my 25mm round ones there along with some materials for magnetic basing.

Now my questions are:
1. How do you base your war machines? See poll for this one.
2. If I use round bases, what size should they be? A goblin bolt thrower would fit on 50mm round base, but a rock lobber needs at least 75mm.
3. Should they have their own size or all the same? Dwarfs like order!
4. What rule issues did I miss or misinterpret?
General comments are also most welcome.

xxRavenxx
28-10-2010, 10:58
I base my rock lobbas on modular movement trays, with a second layer of "tray" thrown in to raise them, and some polyfiller to smooth it out.

http://img263.imageshack.us/i/squiglobba.jpg/

http://img840.imageshack.us/i/squiglobba.jpg/



Assuming I got those in the right order, you can see how I built the base, and the finished result.

I built them to be close to size, and generally havn't had much issue with people trying silly business with shooting them. Besides which, the rules state to use the warmachine and not the base for all measurements, so I feel pretty safe there.

Little Joe
28-10-2010, 11:31
I built them to be close to size, and generally havn't had much issue with people trying silly business with shooting them. Besides which, the rules state to use the warmachine and not the base for all measurements, so I feel pretty safe there.

I think it is a bit of 6th/7th nostalgics on my part, you had an arc of activity in which you could get hit.
Now (8th) I want to even out the rotation and enemy attacks as well. If it is fair for me to shoot after turning and gain some range (spear chukkas) it should also be fair for the opponent to charge/shoot at the same arc.
Also war machines come in all sizes and shapes. I do not want to measure a lot, so just if that arc is in range lets do it. Just trying to find an good arc that is all.

amysrevenge
28-10-2010, 15:28
This is typical of my machines (other than that it isn't finished yet). Machine is on a base (that is where charges are measured and lines up), and then the machine and crew are on a larger base (more of a movement tray than anything else).

Edit: I measure ranges from the Engineer's head (or a selected crew member if no engineer).

Desert Rain
28-10-2010, 15:45
My repeater bolt throwers are mounted on 50mm square bases. I measure ranges and such from the edge of the base, after I've pivoted it to face the target. Haven't had any trouble with people about that.
The crew are separate since I made them during 7th, and they wouldn't fit on the base without it looking very crowded. And having them separate looks, in this case, better.

CauCaSus
28-10-2010, 16:54
You forgot the seventh option: no base

Voss
28-10-2010, 16:57
You forgot the seventh option: no base

Always an option for some of them but I find a lot of the stone throwers, particularly that tomb kings skull catapult, to be a lot more stable if you base them.

Little Joe
28-10-2010, 20:44
You forgot the seventh option: no base

Sorry, did not find how to add options to a poll, so I think I can't change it. Your Option has been noted. It is not an option for me, since I have a magnetic transport system and the mass would be larger then magnetic cohesion in most cases.

Square bases seem to do well so far, but since I have none left over, I am open for all your advice/ideas. I got tempted again by a larger scenic base, they certenly look better.

Lord Inquisitor
28-10-2010, 21:00
I'm not a huge fan of square bases for War Machines under 8th ed rules because there'll be a temptation to close the door which shouldn't happen, and if you don't close the door it'll look weird.

Round bases are my vote. Round bases look nice and they work better with the 8th ed ruleset. It reinforces the fact that it's not treated like a normal unit with flanks and rear.

Little Joe
29-10-2010, 09:34
I'm not a huge fan of square bases for War Machines under 8th ed rules because there'll be a temptation to close the door which shouldn't happen, and if you don't close the door it'll look weird.

Round bases are my vote. Round bases look nice and they work better with the 8th ed ruleset. It reinforces the fact that it's not treated like a normal unit with flanks and rear.

Hadn't thought about that one. Will add it to the list in the first post. I agree that the rules of 8th are better served with round bases. Now what size to make them?

@all Don't stop voting for square if you want them, your input is appreciated. I will try some bases out this weekend and post some pictures to go along.

Isha blessed
29-10-2010, 19:16
I'm not a huge fan of square bases for War Machines under 8th ed rules because there'll be a temptation to close the door which shouldn't happen, and if you don't close the door it'll look weird.

Round bases are my vote. Round bases look nice and they work better with the 8th ed ruleset. It reinforces the fact that it's not treated like a normal unit with flanks and rear.

though it would look odd to me... those are good points.

wizbix
29-10-2010, 23:03
Why would it look odd?

Jind_Singh
29-10-2010, 23:09
Use either - since the rules state from which part of the weapon you fire from, and it's clear in the rules that it's the machine itself that is used for everything, you can have any kind of scenic base - complete with details such as ammo boxes, extra cannon balls, etc.

Round base also works just fine, but for e.g my spear chukkas are on normal troll bases (40mm), but the lobbas are on special bases - much larger - as they include rock piles.

Cannons are just left as is as I find it easier to mount them on the hills, tops of towers, etc.

As for closing the door - I just let the charger come in whatever direction he's coming and then pivot to face him - so there's no unfair angling when a charger comes running in.

Little Joe
30-10-2010, 18:27
I did a quick mock up with cardboard for some size reference. See attached pictures, they are in order: spear chukka on 40mm, 50mm, 75mm and a rock lobber and doom diver on the last.
I think 40mm is to small for a chukka, no place for the third crew member. 50mm encompasses the machine nicely, but the third crewmember is a tight fit yet possible. 75mm is so large for a chukka, I could put the whole crew on there. Rock lobbers and doom divers seem a snug fit on 75mm with ample space for a third crew member or even the entire crew.

So now I am torn between 75mm round scenic bases, they would be bustling.
+ no board space loss due to wound tokens.
+ interaction between crew and machine convertible.
+ one base only.
- spear chukkas do not fit the template.
- might look a bit crowded in some cases.
Or separate base sizes (50 and 75mm) with a snug fit and a last crewmember on the base, thus allowing for a bit of debris on the base for character. The two extra crewmembers on 25mm round bases as wound tokens.
+ all machines fit the template.
+ due to wound tokens no dice needed for wound count.
+ more space on basses for interesting bitz to add.
- Takes up more board space.
- loss of coherent look for the machine and crew.

So what do you think?

Wakerofgods
30-10-2010, 21:34
Why would it look odd?

BECAUSE ROUND IS STRANGE!

Though the pink writing did make a good point, wish I could change my vote.

Also, I had bacon for breakfast and it was good.

SamVimes
30-10-2010, 22:08
Since you seem to be in for the round bases, I'd be consistent and use the 75 mm base for all. There's plenty of things you can do for the spearchukkas to fill up the space, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Torpedo Vegas
30-10-2010, 22:15
I use round 60mm bases with the crew on it. Makes it look like they are actually working the machine if positioned well.

Little Joe
30-10-2010, 22:19
BECAUSE ROUND IS STRANGE!

Though the pink writing did make a good point, wish I could change my vote.

Also, I had bacon for breakfast and it was good.

Night goblin fanatics use round bases, because they opperate outside the normal rules, and a dwarf anvil does as well. They do exist.

Glad you had a tasty breakfast.:)

Ghazbad_Facestompa
31-10-2010, 03:14
I put a chukka on the 60mm round base that came with my daemon prince, and it looks rather good. I'd use a bigger one for my lobba, but round bases all the way.

wilsongrahams
01-11-2010, 03:12
I have mounted my bolt throwers on 50mm square bases rather than round simply because I expect that to be the the size they would count as needing if GW decided next edition they had a set base size - and I wouldn't want to fiddle about rebasing them.

Making larger bases is easy - use cavalry bases and glue them side to side for your longer units - or buy chariot bases and shorten them as you see fit.

Lysander The Great
01-11-2010, 13:53
I have always based all my regiments and war machines on square bases, I think they look neater that way IMO.
I prefer to base my machines on bases that suit there size so I'd have a range of different sized bases to choose from.

I only like round bases for diorama's. :)

Kaiserdean
01-11-2010, 20:57
I'm mostly "no bases". I have used a handful chariot bases on some models that are a little wonky, like the TK Screaming Skull Catapult but the crew are on their own bases.

Little Joe
02-11-2010, 08:40
A quote from the rulebook on models and bases an page 80: "A model should always be mounted on the base it is supplied with. That said, some models aren't supplied with a base. In these cases you should feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size, or simply pretend that the model is on a suitable sized base."

Unfortunately for me it does not mention shape, most bases in fantasy are quadratic in nature. With exceptions for fanatics and flying bases. The latter slowly being replaced by 40mm square bases.

The more scenic base encompassing the crew as well is more interresting to me as a modeller since I can make it look like the machine is actually being worked on.

So what is an appropiate sized base? It should at least be the size of the footprint of the warmachine, I think this we all agree upon.

The reason I prefer round is like with fanatics, you can see at once this unit has it's own rules and interacts differently. And it helps to prevent certain issues already mentioned. Also round is easier to turn, as a bonus you don't change the footprint of the model since it technically didn't move. The only appropiate size for war machines is the machine itself, but this would look even weirder. Pretending is not an option for me due to transport.

I think I will go for 75mm round scenic bases all the way. It fits my laziness in deploying and my enthusiasm in modelling. It might be tricky at times to get the models to interact, but modelling challenges are welcome. At least I had fun seeing other opinions and respect them neverthless. So a big thank you to all of the posters and voters for sharing your thoughts with me.

Scythe
02-11-2010, 10:01
Interesting topic. I never had many war machines, but that is changing now I am playing an Empire army. Being unbased doesn't cut if for me anymore, so I am also in the process of deciding how to base them. Round bases do indeed have some advantages and avoid certain confusing elements close combat with war machines can cause (something I actually didn't think about before reading this thread). However, I think I still prefer square bases, just for looks. In case of some war machines, even a 50x50 base feels small though (especially if you want to add some extra bits to the base). The 50x100 cavalry base doens't look bad for, say, and Empire cannon, but such bases might cause problems when pivoting.

No clear answer for me yet. I am curious what other reactions will be.

Torpedo Vegas
02-11-2010, 17:05
Interesting topic. I never had many war machines, but that is changing now I am playing an Empire army. Being unbased doesn't cut if for me anymore, so I am also in the process of deciding how to base them. Round bases do indeed have some advantages and avoid certain confusing elements close combat with war machines can cause (something I actually didn't think about before reading this thread). However, I think I still prefer square bases, just for looks. In case of some war machines, even a 50x50 base feels small though (especially if you want to add some extra bits to the base). The 50x100 cavalry base doens't look bad for, say, and Empire cannon, but such bases might cause problems when pivoting.

No clear answer for me yet. I am curious what other reactions will be.

I use 60mm round bases for all of my Empire Warmachines. They are big enough to fit everyone, and you can arrange the crew so that it looks like they are actually working the machine.

qwertycg
03-11-2010, 00:15
I am not sure if this has been posted but i read in one of the newer books (skaven or rule book) that warmahines fight with a 60mm front soo I started putting warmachines on 60mm bases(the screaming bell base) or if you are pressed for money and dont have a ton of extra bases around. buy the movement tray set and cut out a 3 front 4-5 deep tray for your warmachines.

Shizzbam
03-11-2010, 01:06
Mine used to sit on cut to measure lumps of plasticard which I then based leaving spaces for the the crew and warmachine to sit snugly. These days I use proper chariot bases with the crew and warmachine fixed on (usually in some sort of scene) as in this edition the crew simply don't matter in their positioning anymore anyway.

theunwantedbeing
03-11-2010, 01:24
Round bases work for war machines.
Better if it's just the machine though, and nothing overly large, it's not an issue if the model hangs over slightly in some way.

They're not a combat unit and it doesn't matter where you hit them, plus it makes measuring ranges especially easy as your always measuring everything to the base of the machine.
The crew could even be given their own round bases.

I'de give the hellcannon a base, even though it's not a war machine.
Not a massive base like most people give but something possibly as small as 60mm wide by 80mm deep (as that's how big the machine is roughly)

I'de use GW bases or make sure the edge was the same as the GW ones, I've never liked using movement trays as the edge is different and doesn't match up right I don't think.

Shamutanti
03-11-2010, 01:34
My Screaming skulls are on Valk/Trygon bases.