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IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 15:04
New to Fantasy, have been playing 40k for 2 years and our group decided to change to fantasy because we got new blood angels player...

well this is list I planned to do with two battalions and butcher.

so tell your opinion

LORDS.
Slaughter Master: Skullmantle, Spangleshard, Mastodon Armour, two Tooth- Gnoblars: 310 pts.

HEROES.
Bruiser: Bull Standard: 175 Pts.

Butcher: The Tenderiser: 180 Pts.

CORE.
Bulls: 6 Bulls, 6 Ironfists, a Crusher, a Bellower: 270 Pts.

Bulls: 6 Bulls, 6 Ironfists, a Crusher, a Bellower, a Standard Bearer: 290 Pts.

Ironguts: 3 Ironguts, a Gutlord, a Bellower, Bull Standard 194 Pts.

Gnoblars: 50 Gnoblars, Groinbiter 100 Pts.

SPECIAL UNITS.
Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, a Thunderfist, a Bellower 240 Pts.

Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, a Thunderfist, a Bellower 240 Pts.

1999 Pts. Total.

Bruiser and Butcher are made from Ironguts.

Slaughter master goes to 6 bull unit with standard. Bruiser goes to other 6 bull unit and butcher join on ironguts.

Wyrmnax
28-10-2010, 15:29
Feels awfully light on bodies.

Leadbelchers are weird. Some people swear by them, some people think they are useless. They are fairly expensive either way.

I understand that you are coming onto the list with the perspective of spending the least amount of $ possible, but you are really going to need more bodies on the field in there.

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 15:42
okay.

I could tell that I play only against dwarves, chaos, skaven and tomb kings

mainly against Skaven, also the skaven player is the most experienced one :D

so tell me tactics against them

bluemage
28-10-2010, 16:09
I believe you are required to take a tyrant in order to take a slaughtermaster.

Anyways the list could use some work. You'll want larger units of ogres, like 7 or 8 models as you're going to take some casualties going in. You'll also want to include banners and musicians for each unit. You're item selection isn't the greatest but don't worry to much about that. Just get some games in and try to see how it works.

Against TK keep everything important within reach of your general and bsb and then just rush him. Once you're in combat all of his stuff will die. I don't really have any advice for your other two opponents but I'm sure other people can help out there.

Torpedo Vegas
28-10-2010, 16:14
You need a Tyrant to take a Slaughternmaster, and Butchers of both types can't be Generals. I'd drop the Leadbelchers, add a Scraplauncher and some more Ironguts. Don't give the Ironguts the Bull standard, take the Runemaw.

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 18:31
Making new list, I really hate that you need Tyrant for Slaughtermaster and that Butcher can't be general.

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 19:05
New Upgraded list.

@: sorry Torpedo, I don't see the Runemaw as useful as you do

LORD.

Tyrant: Sword of Striking, -Battle, -Might, Biting Blade, Mountaineater
HERO.

Bruiser: Skullpucker, Sword of Might, Gnoblars

CORE.
Bulls: 5 Bulls, Ironfists, Full Command

Bulls: 6 Bulls, Ironfists, Full Command

Ironguts: 7 Ironguts, Full Command (Bull Standard)

Gnoblars: 51 Gnoblars, Groinbiter

SPECIAL.

Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, Full Command

Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, Full Command

Torpedo Vegas
28-10-2010, 19:22
I'm liking the Ironguts. It may just be that I regularly face Zeencthian wizard armies that I love the runemaw. Watching my opponents toss all their dice into Gateway only to see me redirect it at a pack of gnoblars is priceless.

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 19:29
indeed, but I face chaos only once per 2 months :D

Torpedo Vegas
28-10-2010, 20:07
On a side note, I'd take the Mawseeker big name. Your Tyrant is the glue that holds your army together Butchers and Bruisers have crappy Leadership. Mawseeker makes your Tyrant tougher, and Stupidity isn't that big of a hassle.

Pacorko
28-10-2010, 20:12
A friendly note: You might want to take the points-cost out and just post the total for your army.

Some mods can get a bit miffed as it can lead to problems with GW's IP Policy, IGoblinego.

Then, the upgraded list looks pretty nice with the choices you've made. It can deal damage and weather it quite well. But it lacks on the Magic defence department and that's a risky proposition against everyone except for Dwarfs, and maybe Gobbos or low-magic Beastmen. Every other army will have a definite advantage there.

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 20:45
Indeed, Pacorko, magic is what I SHOULD need if our group gives crap about magic :D

Skaven army uses horde army with no magic and others haven't really started Fantasy yet, so theres no hurry in that section

but I would really like to have some butchers.

@Torpedo: doesn't mountaineater have similiar effect with only 15 pts more expensive but no stupidility? if Tyrant would have T6, it would make S9 to wound Tyrant 2+, S8 wounds 3+ and so on.

Eta
28-10-2010, 21:01
LORD.

Tyrant: Sword of Striking, -Battle, -Might, Biting Blade, Mountaineater
HERO.

Bruiser: Skullpucker, Sword of Might, Gnoblars



These heroes look illegal, you mustn't have more than one magic weapon per character and you cannot duplicate magic items in your list.

Greetings
Eta

IGoblinego
28-10-2010, 21:09
well, in the army book, it says something like this

"Note that Ogre Magic items bought from the common magic items list may need to be thought of as scaled- up versions. A Biting Blade, for example, its quite likely to have been strapped to a thick club to make Ogre-sized 'equivalent'"

I consider these common magic items are more like "weapon upgrades" (Sword of striking, - Battle, -Might, biting blade)

Torpedo Vegas
28-10-2010, 21:53
Incorrect sir, that is just there so someone dos't call ******** if your Tyrant has a Biting Sword but he is wielding a 7 foot long ax. They aren't upgrades, you can only pick one.

Pacorko
28-10-2010, 23:19
How on earth did I miss that!? :eek:

Most illegal choices, indeed. These are separate weapons and you can never have two magic items of the same category.

So, no. You cannot pick, say, Sword of Might and Biting Blade as there are TWO different magic weapons.

It's back to the drawing board on that department.

P.S.: You guys play Fantasy and you don't give a damn about magic?! :wtf:

You might as well be playing Historicals! You... you... heathens! :p

Torpedo Vegas
29-10-2010, 00:06
I care about magic! Thats what Butchers are for.

NightLordsOldtimer
29-10-2010, 01:39
You definitely need a Butcher, especially at 2000 points, and, personally, I think you need hm more than the Bruiser, although you can easily take both of them at 2,000 points. Magic defense is important (if it's not now, it will be when your gaming club gets into Fantasy full-swing), and the buffs you can throw onto your units are simply amazing (and they stack!). Be sure to read the FAQ carefully and understand how much better Gut Magic is now than it was before. Give your Butcher the Bloodcleaver, and you'll make back the Wounds that he'll lose casting Toothcracker and Trollguts.

Have you already built the Leadbelchers? 'Cuz 8 is a lot of them to take, and from what I've heard, they're not great. I've never used mine in a game yet, and don't plan to at 2,000 points. You probably have enough bitz from the 2 battalion boxes to make a bunch more Bulls and Ironguts, which are a better use of points (infantry, infantry, infantry!). If you want something special (actually Rare ;)), pick up a Gorger; they come in on any board edge you want (when they show up), so on the next turn you can start harrassing units from the flank or rear. The model is hard to come by, but if you're any good with Green Stuff you can take one of the basic bodies and make yourself a custom job (a friend of mine did that). Or, if you're only going to be playing in friendly games and your gaming club/store/whatever isn't sticky about having strictly GW models in your army, Privateer Press makes a Slag Troll that looks a lot like the GW Gorger, for about the same price (the Gorger has to be Direct Ordered, and I've been waiting for mine to arrive for over a month, so I bought the Slag Troll instead and stuck him on a 40mm square base. Nobody in my gaming clubs cares, and I'm not likely to play in any 'official' tournaments where it will matter. It may be heresy to use something other than GW models, but like I said, my guys don't care, and my store sells both brands.).

As for your Tyrant, I run mine with the Trickster's Helm, which makes opponents re-roll successful To Wound rolls. Makes it harder for them to kill your General, and he's important to keep.

Also, if you've already got the Gnoblars, and can keep them within range of your Ironguts' standard bearer, I agree that the Runemaw is probably the way to go (although I've been running mine with the Standard of Discipline, but plan on adding a BSB at 2000 points with Runemaw). Pit of Shades is a nasty Lore of Shadows spell that I run into way too often (pass a Ld test on all models under the small template or model is removed from play), and would love to be able to shunt off to a unit of Gnoblars.

Mawseeker is also excellent. Making your Tyrant harder to kill is a good thing to do, and it's only 10 points. The other big name can only be used once per game, if I'm remembering correctly, but Mawseeker makes him one point Tougher, and that's big, especially if you've got the Trickster's Helm and they've got to re-roll 6s (or maybe 5s) to Wound your Tyrant, too.

Just some thoughts...

IGoblinego
29-10-2010, 04:30
all right, lets make the whole list once more different, I add some magic there.

IGoblinego
29-10-2010, 04:46
had to decrease points to 1750, it's too desperate to try get 2000 points with this low on models.

oh well, for start I only need working list.


HEROES
Butcher: Halfling Cookbook, Dispel Scroll.

CORE
Bulls: 5 Bulls, Ironfists, Full Command, Lo-Gnoblar
Bulls: 6 Bulls, Ironfists, Full Command, Lo-Gnoblar
Ironguts: 8 Ironguts, Full Command (Rune Maw)
Gnoblars: 52 Gnoblars, Groinbiter 106

SPECIAL.
Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, Full Command
Leadbelchers: 4 Leadbelchers, Full Command

This list is trying to be competitive.

spiderman5z
29-10-2010, 06:03
I wouldn't run so many led bealchers... only run like two units of two if any.... and uhm... butchers cant be generals... I'd run a tyrant with trickster's helm and greyback pelt and Mawseeker and cathayan longsword. Butcher with scroll. Bruiser BSB with talisman of preservation. Drop the champions from everything. Especially drop all command from leadbealchers.

IGoblinego
29-10-2010, 06:47
yea well, under 2000 points theres no place for lords, only for heroes which means no tyrants

spiderman5z
29-10-2010, 07:49
mmmm there sure is as long as it's under 25% of the points cost. You can fit in a tyrant in a 1500 pt list with ease.

IGoblinego
29-10-2010, 09:59
Rules deny?

under 2000 points list: 0 lords, 3 Heroes

and I do need someone to cast stuff

Eta
29-10-2010, 10:28
Rules deny?

under 2000 points list: 0 lords, 3 Heroes

and I do need someone to cast stuff

Do you play 8th or 7th edition? In 8th, there are no slots, just percentages. Up to 25% lord choices, up to 25% hero choices, 25%+ core, up to 50% special and up to 25% rare.

Greetings
Eta

IGoblinego
29-10-2010, 12:37
Well, I don't have the rulebook, but I follow what Ogre Kingdoms Army book says

Torpedo Vegas
29-10-2010, 16:29
Well, I don't have the rulebook, but I follow what Ogre Kingdoms Army book says
Yeah, because all the Army Books are form 7th ed and back, most if not all use the Slots system. Thats void now, you use the percentage system like in the 8th ed rule book.
up to 25% Lords
up to 25% Heroes
Minimum 25% Core
Up to 50% Special
Up to 25% Rare
Here is the FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1440042a_FAQ_OgreKingdomsV1_2.pdf

spiderman5z
30-10-2010, 08:16
well it seems like u should get urself the rulebook hehe

IGoblinego
30-10-2010, 12:47
no need to, my friend has it :D

Torpedo Vegas
30-10-2010, 18:13
In anycase, if your playing at WARHAMMER SERZ BIZNIZ type of tournaments, its best to have the Rulebook AAAND the FAQ. Sure, the newest FAQ nerfed one Butcher armies, but we have to deal with it.

NightLordsOldtimer
01-11-2010, 14:57
Sure, the newest FAQ nerfed one Butcher armies, but we have to deal with it.

@Torpedo: How did the newest FAQ 'nerf one Butcher armies'? I'm new to Fantasy and Ogres, so I'm just curious...

Torpedo Vegas
01-11-2010, 15:42
@Torpedo: How did the newest FAQ 'nerf one Butcher armies'? I'm new to Fantasy and Ogres, so I'm just curious...
We cant have multiple stays in play spells from the same butcher, so it kills one butcher lists, one butcher buffing one unit won't do much.

NightLordsOldtimer
01-11-2010, 19:21
We cant have multiple stays in play spells from the same butcher, so it kills one butcher lists, one butcher buffing one unit won't do much.

Actually, I beg to differ with you. The way we (my gaming group) has interpreted the Errata and FAQ for Ogre Kingdoms (much rules lawyering going on) is that you can have multiple Gut Magic spells in play from the same Butcher, and you can have multiples of the same spell (cast in different turns) in play at the same time, even on the same unit. There's nothing in the Army Book nor the Errata that says that Gut Magic are 'stays in play' spells; it says that they can be dispelled in subsequent turns 'as though they were stays in play spells', but they are Gut Magic, not 'normal' magic, and not 'stays in play' spells. That's how we've interpreted it, at any rate, and that's from non-Ogre players reading the OK Army Book and the Errata and FAQs and, collectively, making a ruling. Also, I called GW here in the US, and asked them that question, and they confirmed that that was the case (but take that with a grain of salt...).

Torpedo Vegas
01-11-2010, 22:39
SNIP
In that case, sweet! Nice rule lawyering! Sure, why might still be gimped at anything less than 2500 points, but less so. I love me some Gut Magic.

NightLordsOldtimer
02-11-2010, 22:31
@Torpedo Vegas: So at 2,500 points, do you run a Tyrant and 2 Butchers, or a Tyrant, a Slaughtermaster and a Butcher (and a BSB)? Or what?

Torpedo Vegas
02-11-2010, 23:09
It's a tough call. I'd probably run a Tyrant, BSB and a Butcher. Tyrants need to be dead 'ard, our Leadership values suck so a BSB is a must, and we need at least one Butcher.

immortal git
02-11-2010, 23:25
in 2k i run a naked slaughtermaster, doesnt need a save when hes T6 regen to be honest. in which case you need a tyrant and a bsb, tyrant is kitted to max out kills, bsb makes his unit stubborn and is T6 also

NightLordsOldtimer
02-11-2010, 23:37
in 2k i run a naked slaughtermaster, doesnt need a save when hes T6 regen to be honest. in which case you need a tyrant and a bsb, tyrant is kitted to max out kills, bsb makes his unit stubborn and is T6 also

OK, how does the BSB make his unit Stubborn?

Do you run the BSB in the same unit as the Tyrant?

In which unit do you run the Slaughtermast?

Thanks!

Torpedo Vegas
02-11-2010, 23:59
I'd run the BSB in a separate unit of Ironguts if I could. The Tyrant is the general, so we can take advantage of his leadership, and the BSB can be used elsewhere.

NightLordsOldtimer
03-11-2010, 00:25
But what causes the BSB to make his unit Stubborn? Is that the Helm of Command? (I'm at work and don't have my rulebook with me...)

immortal git
03-11-2010, 14:06
yeah the helm of command, endlessly usefull imo, Cathayan longsword, Crown, Mawseeker, enchanted sheild.

Slaughtermaster at 2K hides with the tyrant in a unit of 6 ironguts, but in a game where i can give him gear like 2.5 he stands in a unit of 7 bulls.

BSB has his own unit, doesnt need the tyrant to be honest.