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NightLordsOldtimer
29-10-2010, 00:43
So, I've tried a few games with a Scraplauncher and a unit of Gnoblars, but so far it hasn't been very effective for me. Maybe I'm not using the Scraplauncher correctly, like using it's ability as a chariot to slam into the flank of something and disrupt that unit, but at Ld 5 I'm afraid the Rhinox will charge when I'm still wanting it to shoot. Also, shooting-wise, it hasn't caused much damage, only killed a few guys each game. Seems like a points-sink to drop 205 points minimum for the SL and mandatory unit of 20 Gnoblars. So I've come up with a different list, whereby I drop the SL and Gnoblars and add a second Gorger (the one I was running has been pretty effective) plus another Irongut to my 'deathstar' unit, plus a magical weapon on my Tyrant. Here's the new list:

1 Tyrant
Tenderizer, Heavy Armor, Trickster's Helm
306 points

1 Butcher
Dispel Scroll, Bloodcleaver
180 points

6 Ironguts
Bellower, Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline
(Tyrant and Butcher are in this unit.)
333 points

6 Bulls (Unit A)
Bellower, Standard Bearer, Ironfists
270 points

6 Bulls (Unit B)
Bellower, Standard Bearer, Ironfists
270 points

2 Gorgers
150 points

Total = 1,509 points
(I'm allowed to be up to 10 points over for our escalation league if I would otherwise be under 1,500 points.)

I can juggle things around a little bit on the Tyrant, like instead of the Tenderizer giving him Fencer's Blades and the Mawseeker big name (that list is 1,504 points), but I figured with the Tenderizer he'd make a good character-killer.

I'd appreciate some feedback, and if you think a list with the Scraplauncher in it would be better at 1,500 points, please give me some tips on how to use it. In one game a Vargulf came marching across the field, wiped out the Gnoblars that were in its way, and charged the Scraplauncher, which lost combat and broke (and got run down), all by turn 2. In another game I'd engaged pretty much everything my opponent had in close combat by turn 2, so couldn't shoot the Scraplauncher, and hadn't moved it close enough to charge with it. I won that game, but the Scraplauncher killed a total of 3 models out of 2 different units, and the big block of Gnoblars were trying to catch up to the action by hadn't gotten close enough to do anything effective by the end of the game. So, like I said, it's feeling like 205-215 points that I could make better use of elsewhere. I've read a lot of people saying that Scraplaunchers are great, but I'm not seeing it at 1,500 points yet...

The 1,500 point tournament is a week from this Saturday, and I've only got this Saturday to get practice games in, and can probably on get 2 games in at the most, possibly only 1, so I'd like to hear your opinions on this list vs. a list with the SL and Gnoblars.

Please advise, and thanks...

Torpedo Vegas
29-10-2010, 00:52
If your Tyrant is in the Ironguts, don't take the SofD, take the Runemaw. having both characters in one unit is risky, and I would add some gnoblars to redirect spells at with the Runemaw. The Scarplauncher is really a case of metahammer. What sort of armies are going to be there?

NightLordsOldtimer
29-10-2010, 01:08
Agreed that having both characters in the same unit is risky, but what do I drop to take the Runemaw instead of the SoD? That's an additional 15 points, and really the only thing I can do is take the Ironfists off of one of the Bulls units, which leaves me with 15 extra points that I can't use. I see your point, but the math is the problem. Plus, Ld10 is much better than Ld9 on the whole army (if I can keep the Bulls within 12" of the Tyrant).

Where would you have me put the Butcher? In one of the units of Bulls? If I run him by himself he'll get shot to death toot-sweet.

What do you mean by 'metahammer'? Sorry, haven't heard that one before.

Armies that will likely be in the tourny:

- Vampire Counts (at least 1, possibly 2)
- Warriors of Chaos (at least 2, possibly 3)
- Lizardmen
- Dark Elves
- Beastmen
- Daemons
- High Elves (maybe)
- Skaven (maybe)


Thanks...

Lukasz_VT
29-10-2010, 02:09
I should imagine "metahammer" is theorising the best army to take based on your knowledge of the local meta-game, that is, what armies and playstyles are predominant in your area :)

Torpedo Vegas
29-10-2010, 02:19
I should imagine "metahammer" is theorising the best army to take based on your knowledge of the local meta-game, that is, what armies and playstyles are predominant in your area :):D
I tend to use bulls in large units, like 12 Bulls large. Looking at what you will be running against, I would defiantly drop some Gorgers for a Scarplauncher. Maybe drop a bull down to a unit of 5 an put the Butcher there. And seeing Woc vamps and Lizzies there, I would drop the Ironfists on one unit and get a Runemaw and some Gnoblars. All those LoS cinitiative based spells and the whole Lore of Zeentch are brutal.
Also, I tend to not use standards on Bulls at that low of a point level.

NightLordsOldtimer
29-10-2010, 21:47
OK, thanks for the feedback. I'll try the Scraplauncher and Gnoblars again tomorrow night, see what happens. Here's the revised list:

1 Tyrant
Trickster's Helm, Heavy Armor
256 points


1 Butcher
Dispel Scroll, Bloodcleaver
180 points


5 Ironguts
Runemaw
(Tyrant is in this unit)
290 points


5 Bulls
Ironfists
(Butcher is in this unit)
230 points


6 Bulls
Ironfists
270 points


20 Gnoblars - 40 points


1 Scraplauncher - 165 points


1 Gorger - 75 points

Total = 1,506 points

As usual, I have a couple of variations, where I drop the Ironfists off of the unit of 6 Bulls and add a Great Weapon and Mawseeker big name to my Tyrant, or I do that and also drop the Ironfists off the unit of 5 Bulls and add a 6th Bull to that unit, plus 5 more Gnoblars. I tinker.

Lemme know what you think...

Torpedo Vegas
29-10-2010, 21:58
I don't have my Army Book on me but you may consider giving your Butcher the Halfling cookbook if you can afford it. If the Butcher is going to be casting like mad (and lets face it, all spells are 3+ so...) then the Cookbook can really save his life. If he is going to be fighting alot then the Bloodcleaver is the way to go. Keep those Gnobos close to the Ironguts. They're sharp stuff may actually kill a few T3 enemies, and runemaw wont do any good if there are no goblinoids to vaporize nearby:D.

NightLordsOldtimer
29-10-2010, 23:27
Can't afford the Hafling Cookbook and the Bloodcleaver and the Dispel Scroll, they're all 25 points apiece, and a Butcher is only allowed to take up to 50 points in magical items and/or Big Names. The Dispel Scroll is a "Don't Leave Home Without It" item, IMHO, and in a unit of 5 Bulls the Butcher will have to be in the front rank, as I don't have full command on that unit (just realized this), but that's OK, I think. No it's not, they can always allocate hits to a character that they're in base-to-base with, so I need a Crusher in that unit in order to put the Butcher in the second rank where he can't be specifically targeted. Crud, that's another 20 points that I don't have to spare. That's why the Butcher was in the unit of Ironguts in the first place, 'cuz he could be in the second row and not get targted. Anyway, the point is he'd be making attacks (even from the second row), but wouldn't be able to be targeted in the second row, so the Bloodcleaver will be (should be) getting him wounds back from his casting. That's how it's worked so far, but like I said, I've been running him in the Ironguts unit, where he can stay comfortably in the back rank (at least, that's how it's worked so far). Darn, now I've got to re-figure this and get 20 points back to get a Crusher for that unit. Guess I'm going to have to drop Ironfists off of the other unit of Bulls, which I hate doing.

Anyway, thanks for the advice! Keep it coming! I'll post a reply here next Monday and let you know how my games on Saturday went...