View Full Version : Great Icon of Despair + Stubborn + 'Unmodified Leadership'

29-10-2010, 11:38
This is a genuine question, I am learning the game, so have patience.

A unit of High Elf Sword Masters and unit of High Elf White Lions are charged by a unit of Daemon of Chaos Bloodcrushers of Khorne.
The Herald of Khorne [who is with them, also on a Bloodcrusher] [Hero with BSB] has a Magic Banner "Great Icon of Despair".

The Bloodcrushers wipe out the Sword Masters.
The White Lions are now called upon to take a Break Test.

Previously in that Magic Phase, the High Elf Mage had cast 'Courage of Anerion' [aura of 12" - all units are Stubborn].
[This doesnt affect the White Lions as they are already Stubborn]. .
However the Mage is OUT of the 12" Hex Aura of the 'Great Icon of Despair' but still able to provide his Inspiring Presence Ld8. [Only possible since he is 12" to the Diagonal/Rear of the rear rank of White Lions].


Do the White Lions take this Break Test at 8 ['Unmodified Leadership']

or Do the White Lions take this Break Test at 8 (-2 Great Icon of Despair) = 6


Does the Inspiring Presence Mage [my general in this case] being out of the 12" hex aura of the 'Great Icon of Despair' yet within the 12" of the White Lions mean he can provide the White Lions with Leadership 8?

Is this applied after or before the Magic Banner reduces the White Lions to Leadership 6?

Do the White Lions take this Break Test at 8 --> 8 (-2 Great Icon of Despair) 6 then Inspiring Presence [out of range to be hexxed itself] back to 8

or Do the White Lions take this Break Test at 6 --> Inspiring Presence 8 (-2 Great Icon of Despair)

[b]So basically these questions revolve around 'Unmodified Leadership'... since the 'Great Icon of Despair' is a modifier(?) of Leadership.

Stubborn/Steadfast says you always take your Break Tests on Unmodified Leadership... but Great Icon of Despair reduces all Leadership within 12" by -2.


Rules i have looked at in trying to understand this:

Daemons of Chaos Army Book page 95.

Great Icon of Despair
"All enemy units within 12" of this Banner suffer a -2 penalty to their Leadership"

Warhammer Rulebook page 76.

"Stubborn units are always Steadfast, whether or not they have more ranks than their enemy (see page 54 for details)."

Warhammer Rulebook page 54

[Top Bold Summary]
"If a defeated unit has more ranks than its enemy, it takes its Break test on its unmodified Leadership"

[3rd Paragraph]
"Steadfast units can always take Break tests on their unmodified Leadership (or the General's unmodified Leadership if the testing unit is in range of his Inspiring Presence special rule - see page 107)."

29-10-2010, 11:42
The wording of Steadfast has been changed, it is in the BRB FAQ. They would take the leadership on 8-2 = 6 Ld.

29-10-2010, 15:53
Okay, i forgot to check the FAQs.
[For completness i will put the relevant information below]

Page 54 – Steadfast
Change the first paragraph to “If a defeated unit has more
ranks than its enemy, it takes a Break test without applying the
difference in the combat result scores.” Change the fourth
paragraph to “Steadfast units don’t apply the difference in
combat result scores to Break tests.”

Page 60 – Steadfast
Change “[...]can use its unmodified Leadership[...]” to
“[...]doesn’t apply the difference in combat result scores[...]”.
Change both references to “[...] any enemy units [...]” to “[...]
all enemy units [...]”.

Also.. i found this...

Daemon FAQ
Q. If an enemy unit is within 12" of the Great Icon of Despair and
the unit is within the general’s Inspiring Presence radius, does the
Leadership value conferred by Inspiring Presence suffer the modifier
even if the General is not within 12" of the banner? (p95)
A. Yes.

Which answers the other part of my question.

What is good to know, which is unrelated to the questions, but to combatting the Great Icon of Despair...

Daemon Errata
Page 95 - Daemonic Icons
Add “Daemonic Icons are Magic Standards.” to the start of the
first paragraph.

So... High Magic... Vaul's Unmaking would work perfectly against this :)