PDA

View Full Version : Skaven - Tournament List 2k - Character choices



CaptainFaramir
29-10-2010, 14:27
I am going to a Tournament at the end of this month and (painting dependant) I intend to take a list based on the following builds. However, after a little play-testing and some otherwise dubious mathhammer, I am a little unsure as to my characters set up. Hence the poll.

The bulk of the army is as follows - where numbers (are/like/this) the number of models corresponds to choices (1/2/3) in the poll.

Warlock, Brass Orb
Warlock, Doom Rocket
Chieftain, BSB, Talisman of Protection, Iron Curse Icon

(34/28/34) Clanrats, Shields, Full Command, Warpfire Thrower
(34/29/34) Clanrates, Spears, Shields, Full Command, Poisoned Wind Mortar
(45/39/46) Slaves, Ms, Standard (for kill points!)
(45/38/46) Slaves, Ms, Standard (as above)

2 Doomwheels
2 Warplightning Cannons

The decision is on which other characters to take:


Option 1: Safety First
Grey Seer (Ruin) - Skalm, Power Scroll, Foul Pendant
Assassin - Blade of Corruption, Other Trickster's Shard
Warlock - Lvl 1, Dispel Scroll

Grey Seer takes Ruin with the objective of getting Skitterleap/Scorch and then 13th Spell. With Skalm/FP getting off 13th with Power Scroll, and thereafter chucking 6 dice at it. Warlock is to take Warplightning (so Seer can't roll it, and provide the "in case it isn't IF" auto-dispel on Dweller's/Purple Sun, etc.


Option 2: Double-Seer
Grey Seer (Ruin) - Warpstone Token
Grey Seer (Ruin/Plague) - Iron Curse Icon
Assassin - Blade of Corruption, Other Trickster's Shard

First Seer has the same role as before, but with less IF protection. Second seer will roll for ruin if skitterleap is not got by first seer, and if already got will swap the ruin spell for Dreaded 13th. Benefits are the ability to keep pumping out 6-dice Dreaded, even if one pops. Negs are that there is little protection for them and I'm losing around 30 bodies on the park (around 5-10 from each unit).


Option 3: Ding-dong#
Grey Seer (Ruin) - Riding a Screaming Bell - Powerscroll, Skalm, Ironcure Icon
Warlock - Lvl 1, Dispel Scroll

As before really, except with a 4+ ward, and the known benefits of the bell. Disadvantages: Big Bell shaped target painted on the seer's forehead. No assassin.


Option 4: You tell me...

Let me know your thoughts... not enough rats/weapons-teams/warmachines. Too much Assasin love (I love the little bugger! With (up to) five characters already deployed at the start, no-one expects the Spanish Inqui- assassin.)

Note - that where a Seer takes the ICI, the BSB will not.

vorthain
29-10-2010, 16:06
The assassin doesn't have much bang for your buck and the Bell seems expensive for 2k. Double-Seer seems crazy expensive too as far as Lords. Two chieftains are less than the cost of an assassin.

genesis873
29-10-2010, 18:27
I don't really think assasins are really worth it for cometitive play. (They are fun though) Bell is too expensive for 2000 points IMO. Likewise, double grey seer, seems really expensive for what you get.

Grey Seer and Warlock are a good choice. (You may want to look at the warp energy condenser for the warlock, if he's gonna be spamming warp lightning I find it well worth it and it'll give you some extra power dice now and again). After that (and obviously the BSB) I would skip the assasin in favour of a warlord or a pair of cheiftains. The warlord is quite nice cause you can let one unit act a bit more independently from the general and still have high leadership. Oh, and I don't have my book with me but I was pretty sure slave couldn't take standards.

SevenSins
29-10-2010, 19:39
ding dong, I'd say.
Unfortunately assassins (although possibly cool) don't contribute much to a skaven army.

does that "make sure the warlock gets lightning so grey seer can't" ploy work? I thought exchange spells didn't count for those rolls...

skitterleap and orb/rocket is pure killer

CaptainFaramir
29-10-2010, 21:10
Cheers chaps - all useful feedback of course. Just a few counterpoints to explain my thinking...

@all: I disagree that Assassing don't give bang for buck. Remember that you don't HAVE to reveal them (at all), so if I am upagainst a chaos lord with a 1+/4++ I obviously won't reveal myself. But against any kind of ogre/krokigor/troll/dragon/monster/character without armour he is GOLD. The point is not to use him just because there is a character in base contact. Just wait and/or don't reveal.

@Voraith: I note you voted for the bell - is that just the best of a bad three?

@Genesis: WEC is fine, but 20 points is 10 slaves! I find the warlord difficult because (once you add in the 4+ ward save, and other "equivalency" items) you get a fighter who is the same cost but not as good. Re: standards, you are annoyingly correct. Perhaps it was 6th Ed. where they could have ms/st but not a champ. Good spot.

@Seven sins: For "signature spells", indeed it does not count, but the Warlock's signature is Warplightning, but the Seer's signature is Skitterleap OR 13th Spell. Ergo, the Warlock WILL block warplightning.

Esco Thomson
29-10-2010, 21:45
Take #3, give your BSB the Charmed Shield.

You don't have to chose your Lore with the Seer he can freely choose to roll from both.

I would ditch the weapons teams. There is simply too many ways for them to lose that single wound, and points could be better spent on other things, like more Slaves.

genesis873
29-10-2010, 23:37
You don't have to chose your Lore with the Seer he can freely choose to roll from both.


The problem there is a good chance that you may get no good spells. It would suck to role say vermintide, pestilent breath, windstorm(don't have my book, can't remember the name lol) and then taking the 13th. Rolling from one lore is more consistant, especially since you will likely get to pick at least one of your spells. Personally I'm more of a fan of plague for my grey seers though.



@Genesis: WEC is fine, but 20 points is 10 slaves! I find the warlord difficult because (once you add in the 4+ ward save, and other "equivalency" items) you get a fighter who is the same cost but not as good.

Regarding the slaves, I've never really liked the slave argument cause it could be applied to pretty much anything. You could get another unit of slaves instead of the weapons teams for example. Or lots by dropping a bunch of items lol. Or dropping clanrats and getting twice the numbers. I feel if you spending all the points to buy a warlock it is worth the 20 points to make him consistently better. It really makes warplightning go from an alright spell to a good one IMO. Plus that extra power dice can be nice, especially since you seem to have alot of plans for your magic phase. Just IMO of course.

RE: The assassin, the problem with not revealing him is that if your up against a chaos lord with a 1+/4++, and he hides then the unit he's in is probably gonna lose (might lose anyway, but still :p), especially since your only other fighty guy is the bsb. And if the unit hes in is destroyed then you've lost the assassin and he didn't even kill a single guy which is 170 points down the drain. Without any fighty guys your clanrat blocks are probably gonna lose most combats they get in. Without fighty character I find they are really just tarpits and ablative wounds for wizards. I mean if you really think he's worth it then go for it. I do think they got a nice boost this addition, but a warlord with a 4+ward and the same equipment is about 20 points more and though you lose asf and the element of suprise, you gain a wound, heavy armour+shield, an attack, and better leadership for the unit.

I mean he can be really effective, but I think a warlord or maybe double cheiftains would be more consistant and reliable, which I would view as preferable in a tournament setting.

thesheriff
30-10-2010, 20:25
Howzabout a seer, warlock lv.1 and warlord with felblade as an assassin substitute. Failing that, 2 cheiftains with halberds?

thesheriff

karse88
07-11-2010, 14:20
dont you roll for highest lvl first and warlock after?... and.. something completely different, wich size base does bonebraker use? :O normal rat ogre ?

Bob the Butcher
11-11-2010, 15:14
What about Jezzails instead of Weapons teams?

I wouldn't bother with Spears on the Clan Rats just use Hand Weapon shield.

sssk
11-11-2010, 19:03
I can't help noticing you've taken a talisman of protection on your BSB. Ditch that. He either needs full protection (4+ ward or armour) or none (hope he doesn't get stuck in combat). The talisman has such a tiny chance of success for 15 points...or whatever it is, I just can't understand their use.

As for the rest, I'm afraid I can't help, but if you've got the new bell model, take that, cos it's well cool like

thesheriff
11-11-2010, 21:20
dont you roll for highest lvl first and warlock after?

No. Its quite good with skaven so that you roll your warlocks and priests so you see how many spells you proportionally want from each lore on the seer.

Von Breitholz
12-11-2010, 05:50
I prefer the bell. Itīs a solid choice in my opinion. You got quite a lot of magic bang for your buck. The warlock has a few tricks up his sleeve.