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karse88
29-10-2010, 16:05
Help! im in the middle of a warhammer game! he
we can't seem to find the deal about warp lightning canons against monster infantry!??
does the bolt stop as a normal canon ball? or does it go its full distance?
and? if it stops in the front rank, does it ekplode and make template?
thx! :)

Ramius4
29-10-2010, 16:09
No, cannonballs only stop if they do not kill a Monster. Monstrous Infantry are not Monsters.

RealMikeBob
29-10-2010, 16:16
No, cannonballs only stop if they do not kill a Monster.

Not according to page 113 of the rulebook.

sssk
29-10-2010, 16:23
I don't have a rulebook in front of me, so I can't quote any pages, but I believe the cannon ball stops as soon as it doesn't kill something, therefore I'd assume that would be the point which the explosion would occur at (again, I don't know the wording of the warp lightning cannon in the skaven book...in fact, I probably shouldn't be replying at all....)

Kevlar
29-10-2010, 16:29
I don't have a rulebook in front of me, so I can't quote any pages, but I believe the cannon ball stops as soon as it doesn't kill something, therefore I'd assume that would be the point which the explosion would occur at (again, I don't know the wording of the warp lightning cannon in the skaven book...in fact, I probably shouldn't be replying at all....)

The skaven bolt doesn't stop. There is no cannon ball, its just a lightning bolt. Just be glad it can be str 2 instead of str 10.

EngraDeathsword
29-10-2010, 16:31
Cannonballs stop if it doesnt slay a monster, OR monstrous infantry/beast/cav.

Senbei
29-10-2010, 16:37
Cannonballs stop if it doesnt slay a monster, OR monstrous infantry/beast/cav.

That's bolt-throwers, isn't it? Cannons blast straight through ranks of infantry and cavalry... if I remember correctly. Rolling for damage after you figure out how many hits you get.... Dunno about the monsterous infantry question though.

Jind_Singh
29-10-2010, 17:14
No, if a cannon ball doesn't outright kill the [insert monstrous infantry here] the cannon ball does not carry on, it ends it's travel.
It states in the rule book that the momentum of the cannon ball is absorbed by the bulk of the monstrous infantry.
Assuming the Warp Lightning Cannon says 'fires like a cannon' then it would also apply, in this case imagine not the bulk of the monstrous infantry absorbing the momentum of the cannon ball, but his fat body absorbs and earths the lightning shot!

decker_cky
29-10-2010, 19:02
The part on determining what's hit by a cannon (which is the part including it being stopped if it doesn't kill a monster) is the part which the warp lightning cannon overwrites with it's unique rules, so I don't think monsters would stop the WLC blast.

Ramius4
29-10-2010, 19:08
Not according to page 113 of the rulebook.

Argh! You're right, sorry OP. Didn't mean to give you the wrong answer.

decker_cky
29-10-2010, 19:15
The Warp Lightning cannon [...] fires in the same way as a cannon, as presented in the Warhammer rulebook, with the following exceptions:

[...]

All models touched by the template or in the path of the Warp Lightning from where it hits the ground to where it explodes suffers a hit at the strength rolled.

It explicitly hits everything in the path and touched by the template, with no exceptions.

Lord Inquisitor
29-10-2010, 19:32
Hmm. Tricky.

I think I agree with Decker. It has its own unique rules. Aside from anything else, if we allow the warp lightning to be stopped it raises the question about what happens with the small blast template.

The bearded one
29-10-2010, 20:56
If it could've been stopped by a monstrous thing, then the template wouldn't be used, that's only positioned at the end of the line.

But apparently it can't be stopped ;)

karse88
30-10-2010, 08:40
we used is as decker wrote.. but still think its very tricky :/
i just think that the warp lightning gets nurf'd against MI now, IF it don't even gets a blast, stopped in the first rank :/ ??

crazywhiteboydance
03-11-2010, 09:17
It works as Decker states. The bolt travels the distance rolled on the artillery dice then the template is placed at the end. You then work out the number of hits based on models touched by the line & template. As all these hits are simultanious (unlike the cannon ball) no one member of a monsterous infantry unit can absorb the attack.

theunwantedbeing
03-11-2010, 10:30
It says it's fired in the same way as a cannon.
It also refer's to a "bounce".

So presumably it would follow the other rules of cannonballs.

The fact that those cannon rules came out after isn't really a valid excuse to not follow them. The GW designers obviously need a better crystal ball.

Kevlar
03-11-2010, 10:54
It says it's fired in the same way as a cannon.
It also refer's to a "bounce".

So presumably it would follow the other rules of cannonballs.

The fact that those cannon rules came out after isn't really a valid excuse to not follow them. The GW designers obviously need a better crystal ball.

No it says it shoots like a cannon with the following exceptions, then it explains exactly how you work out hits and wounds from the bolt. That part is very clearly worded in the armybook. Basically it aims like a cannon and that is the extent of how it shoots like a cannon. Everything else is different.

theunwantedbeing
03-11-2010, 11:12
It bounces, it doesn't say it follows a different set of bounce rules.

KronusDaSneaky
03-11-2010, 11:36
The skaven army book says it works like the cannon with the following exceptions. There are considerable number including specific details on who his hit namely:


All models touched by the template or the path of the warp lightning from where it hits the ground suffer a hit at the strength rolled

Armybook trumps the rulebook and so the warp lightning cannon works as decker describes. This may have been an unfortunate mistakes but mistake or not the rules are clear enough on this matter

Tregar
03-11-2010, 13:22
Yeah, having looked at the "who's been hit" part of the cannon rules, the wording is quite different and strong enough to override that part. So the WLC shot isn't stopped by failing to kill the big boys.

theunwantedbeing
03-11-2010, 13:26
Okay so it can hit multiple models per rank then and shoot through obstacles.

Feels wrong to be allowed to do that though.

Tregar
03-11-2010, 13:43
Why? It's a big zapp burst of lightning, not a physical cannonball, so it makes more sense that it can. It only feels wrong because it's so underpriced ;)

KronusDaSneaky
03-11-2010, 14:14
Okay so it can hit multiple models per rank then and shoot through obstacles.

Feels wrong to be allowed to do that though.

Entirely understandable but unfortunately that's how the cookie crumbles

crazywhiteboydance
03-11-2010, 14:47
There's also the chance it misfires or that it doesn't misfire & the shot dissapates before it can do anything or the ever so frequent strength 2 shot.

cobra0
03-11-2010, 15:28
Okay so it can hit multiple models per rank then and shoot through obstacles.

Feels wrong to be allowed to do that though.

Nobody mentioned obstacles as yet. Concerning walls, etc. I would play it RAW, that the "cannonball" destroys the obstacle and stops there. Then, ArmybookAW, it explodes, thus templating the front row of the unit hiding behind it. A very satisfying result for a Skaven player, something works and hits accurately!

skavenmatt
03-11-2010, 18:40
that would be perfectly acceptable if it were fireing cannonballs and used generic cannon rules. However, since there are specific rules regarding the warp lighting cannon and it's shot, that is not the case. RAW are very clear, everything in it's line is hit, going straight through infantry, monsters, monstrous infantry, cavalry, chariots, war beasts, monstrous beasts, obstacles, buildings, hills, santa claus, the easter bunny, and even fimir and squats may they rest in peace. The RAW are: everything in the path of the warp lightning from where it hits the ground suffers a hit at strength equal to the roll.
There is no cannonball, the warp lightning cannon does not fire cannonballs, and it specifically RAW says fires like a cannon with the following exceptions : "read here for RAW people." Thats the benefit of having a random strength cannon instead of a normal, reliable cannon that fires actual cannonballs. Which, by the way, do stop if they fail to kill monstrous critters, or hit an obstacle of any kind, because that's what their RAW say in their very own entry.

karse88
22-11-2010, 21:13
It bounces, it doesn't say it follows a different set of bounce rules.

the rules would be messed up if you had to go back and forth like that to see the exact rule for a WLC

theunwantedbeing
22-11-2010, 21:31
the rules would be messed up if you had to go back and forth like that to see the exact rule for a WLC

Hardly.
You have to go back and forth in the rulebook and the armybook to get the rules for most things.

The WLC bouncing like a normal cannon would be no different.
I personally reckon they should FAQ it so it explodes on the model/place it stops at or when it reaches the end of it's bounce.

Hardly too complicated.

Lord_Elric
22-11-2010, 21:50
does it not say it explodes when it reaches the ned of its move???

are you guys argueing as to wether or not if the WL is stopped that thats not the end of its move?

decker_cky
22-11-2010, 21:53
No. It says draw the line and place the template at the end. Everything touched by the template or the line is hit.

karse88
24-10-2011, 14:55
Hardly.
You have to go back and forth in the rulebook and the armybook to get the rules for most things.

The WLC bouncing like a normal cannon would be no different.
I personally reckon they should FAQ it so it explodes on the model/place it stops at or when it reaches the end of it's bounce.

Hardly too complicated.

yes... but not like this ;) ... the rules are pretty clear, FAQ would be a good idea, but they only need to clarify it a bit more.. it says that it travels all the way and blast, they should just write that it ALLWAYS blast's unless other things are noted..

Zoolander
26-10-2011, 18:00
I have to agree with Decker and friends. The WLC aims and bounces like a cannon but otherwise uses it's own rules. I had not even considered hitting multiple people per rank. I'm taking two of these things now. :p

dementian
26-10-2011, 19:36
How wide a line do you draw? I always figured it would be very thin such that you cannot hit more than one model per rank if they were facing straight on.

Tregar
26-10-2011, 19:52
Yeah, if you were exactly perpendicular, an infinitely thin line that would hit one model per rank. But it takes just the slightest gradient to increase it (but not by much).

Zoolander
26-10-2011, 20:40
How wide a line do you draw? I always figured it would be very thin such that you cannot hit more than one model per rank if they were facing straight on.

It is a very thin line, but I often find my cannons on the sides of the table shooting at an angle. I rarely find a target directly facing my cannon.

Cochrane
27-10-2011, 13:23
After latest edition of warhammer came out, there was a skaven v empire battle. A warp lightning cannon fired at a unit of state troops behind a wall. The bounce hit the wall and it stopped there with no blast, but the wall was destroyed as a normal cannon would do. Not saying that Dwarfers get everything right, but since then thats how we play it.

jtrowell
27-10-2011, 18:39
Battle reportin White dwarf are notorious for error like that.

I don't have my book with me, but I remember that the FAQ clearly was writtent in a way replacing a whole section of the canon rules, and this part included the being blocked by Monsters and the like

belgarath97
28-10-2011, 16:38
The Warp Lightning cannon [...] fires in the same way as a cannon, as presented in the Warhammer rulebook, with the following exceptions:

[...]

All models touched by the template or in the path of the Warp Lightning from where it hits the ground to where it explodes suffers a hit at the strength rolled.


It bounces, it doesn't say it follows a different set of bounce rules.

Are you blantantly ignoring the All models touched by the template or in the path of the Warp Lightning from where it hits the ground? If you want to argue that you think it shouldn't be that way, that is a completely different discussion, but RAW it keeps going.

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:22
it says all models in its path, but it says, fires like a cannon and cannons can hit 1 model pr rank, right? but the warplightning uses its own rules :S i have always played with the "maximum 1 model pr rank"

Tregar
01-11-2011, 21:43
It fires like a cannon, but resolves damage by its own rules, so it should be able to hit every model in its path. Whether you play like that is up to you...

jtrowell
02-11-2011, 09:34
The Faqs says that it fires like a canon *except* for a specific paragraph that is replaced by the rules for the line+template thing, and the replaced paragraph is where the rules for stopping the canonball where.

karse88
27-01-2012, 06:27
i know its not a MI, i just want to make clear, if a WLC hits 4 inches in front of a hydra, bounces 10 inches so the line hits the hydra and blast hits hydra + handlers... the hydra get 1 hit still, and handlers gets 1 , they cant be hit = hydra takes 1 s 10 hit d6 wounds... right!??
if you shoot at 25 clanrats, hits the two first lines with the bounce and the explosion hits 21 (included the 2 in front) there is a hit of 23.. right? the 2 in the bounces doesnt get hit twice, its more like 2 hits during bounce and 21 hits during blast!? right? :)

Texhnolyze
27-01-2012, 20:33
Skaven FAQ


Q: If a shot from a Warp Lightning Cannon does not kill a
Monstrous Infantry/Beast/Cavalry or Monster model does that shot
stop? (p68)
A: No. All models are still hit.

Grimgormx
27-01-2012, 22:40
When GW writers were doing the skaven army book they where disigning them thinking in 8th edition rules, remember that template weapons in skaven book where the first to hit al models touched by the template (no more 4+ to hit patial covered models)

Balerion
28-01-2012, 18:30
It's a giant evil laser beam! Seems perfectly acceptable and intentional for it to lance through units instead of stopping, and the FAQ answer gives that interpretation some credence.

Lord Inquisitor
28-01-2012, 23:16
This is the Skaven book. I'm not going to give Vetock the benefit of doubt here. Many things were clearly not well thought-through before publication. ;)

karse88
28-01-2012, 23:31
are you guys answering on my question or something old? :b maybe i write it bad .. its more like questions?
if you get 2 hits in the first rank and hit the same people again plus 19 more... do you get 21 hits because all models can only be assigned 1 hit, or do you get 21 hits for the template and 2 more for the line into the unit, even thought they got one hit already?..
the same for the hydra.. if the line goes through the hydra, ends its path 1 inch behind it and blast so its hit twice.. it should - logically (not gw like haha) get 2 hits?..

sulla
28-01-2012, 23:48
It's a giant evil laser beam! Seems perfectly acceptable and intentional for it to lance through units instead of stopping, and the FAQ answer gives that interpretation some credence.It's a giant evil electricity beam. Seems perfectly acceptable to get earthed by the first target it hits too. I try not to think too hard about what would be proper in WH, especially when it comes to rat-men with kryptonite powered weapons...

karse88
27-02-2012, 11:00
we talked about this loooong time ago, no a question represents itself from another thread... can you have 7/8 hits in a 6 unit OK Bull unit?... the warplightning hits all in its path and touched by template.. if the shot goes through the first rank, explodes behind the squad and touches 3 Bulls... then its 5 hits, right?.. 2 for the line, 3 for blast, even though 1 model is touched by line and template.. there are models in the unit that has not been hit, so he can take 2 hits, am i right!?

theunwantedbeing
27-02-2012, 11:17
we talked about this loooong time ago, no a question represents itself from another thread... can you have 7/8 hits in a 6 unit OK Bull unit?... the warplightning hits all in its path and touched by template.. if the shot goes through the first rank, explodes behind the squad and touches 3 Bulls... then its 5 hits, right?.. 2 for the line, 3 for blast, even though 1 model is touched by line and template.. there are models in the unit that has not been hit, so he can take 2 hits, am i right!?

1 2 3
4 5 6

Bull 5 and 2 are hit by the line.
The circular blast then hits bulls 1, 2 & 3.

Which bulls are hit?
1,2,3 & 5.

How many bulls is that?
4.

So how many bulls were hit by the warp lightning cannon?
4.

So how many hits does the unit take?
4, the answer is 4.

The blast is part of the same template as the line is, it is not two seperate templates.
So a model cannot suffer 2 hits from being under the template.

karse88
27-02-2012, 12:24
1 2 3
4 5 6

Bull 5 and 2 are hit by the line.
The circular blast then hits bulls 1, 2 & 3.

Which bulls are hit?
1,2,3 & 5.

How many bulls is that?
4.

So how many bulls were hit by the warp lightning cannon?
4.

So how many hits does the unit take?
4, the answer is 4.

The blast is part of the same template as the line is, it is not two seperate templates.
So a model cannot suffer 2 hits from being under the template.

Thanks for pointing that out in the worst way ever :)


It explicitly hits everything in the path and touched by the template, with no exceptions. - this makes it sound like 2 and 5 are hit, and then 2 is hit again ... but as anything can ever be hit once and only once, this all makes more sense :)