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Luigi
01-11-2010, 04:28
Hello guys,
since I have to play new edition games i decided to change my list. I want to put a big unit (of 40) of either hammerers or longbeards with GW, what should I choose? in any case a second unit of 40 warrior with GW or 45 with shields will be present.
o another question, since it has been almost a year from the last time i actually played, i dont know how many points people are usually playing, if 2250 like before or 3000.

The Grim
01-11-2010, 04:29
Hammerers, Better, cheaper.

wyvirn
01-11-2010, 04:43
I always liked Longbeards if I'm deploying close together and have smaller units. Otherwise i would go with hammerers.

The bearded one
01-11-2010, 05:25
Longbeards with great weapons and hammerers are comparable, but longbeards lose out in a battle. Their stats are identical, but longbeards are more expensive, yet lack stubborn. This should be enough to win over anyone. Also the major benefits of longbeards ( being a core choice, and their panic special rules ) have been lessened by the new edition. The army battle standard bearer allows any ld tests within 12" to be rerolled, any ld. This includes panic checks. And the new army selection system removed the slots, making it easier to get hammerers in without losing valuable slots for warmachines.

H33D
01-11-2010, 07:20
Longbeards are strictly for when you need:

-an elite unit that can scout
-an excellent core choice for min/maxing
-if your specials are filled and you want more elite infantry

but they are identical to hammerers except NO STUBBORN and MORE EXPENSIVE
so they dont help at all except fore the above reasons

The Grim
01-11-2010, 07:34
Longbeards are strictly for when you need:

-an elite unit that can scout
-an excellent core choice for min/maxing
-if your specials are filled and you want more elite infantry

but they are identical to hammerers except NO STUBBORN and MORE EXPENSIVE
so they dont help at all except fore the above reasons

Well, to be completely fair there is the panic bubble.

Hashulaman
01-11-2010, 08:14
I like Hammeres myself and I dont even play Dwarfs. I do love the fluff however, and since Dwarfs I is crap you might as well go for a GW unit.

Sand
01-11-2010, 08:34
If it's a GW-wielding unit you need, Hammerers or Warriors are your best choice as far as I can tell. Warriors usually do the job just fine with their S5, so I wouldn't upgrade to Longbeards just to get the +1 S on a unit with GW's.

However, I'm partial to HW/Shield wearing Longbeards myself. They're very durable, packs a reasonable punch and won't accidentally run away to a Terror causing monster or a panic-causing spell/shot (even if that might be an outside chance in a Dwarf army in the first place, there's literally 0% risk here and you can put'em wherever you like). Plus they're just awesome and grumpy, of course.

The Grim
01-11-2010, 09:10
If it's a GW-wielding unit you need, Hammerers or Warriors are your best choice as far as I can tell. Warriors usually do the job just fine with their S5, so I wouldn't upgrade to Longbeards just to get the +1 S on a unit with GW's.

However, I'm partial to HW/Shield wearing Longbeards myself. They're very durable, packs a reasonable punch and won't accidentally run away to a Terror causing monster or a panic-causing spell/shot (even if that might be an outside chance in a Dwarf army in the first place, there's literally 0% risk here and you can put'em wherever you like). Plus they're just awesome and grumpy, of course.

Longbeard also get +1 WS compared to warriors. Still, hammerers are better in terms of hammer unit (pun intended)

Lord of Divine Slaughter
01-11-2010, 09:32
Whatever models you like the best is the correct answer :)

Leogun_91
01-11-2010, 09:42
I prefer hammerers and have always done. For longbeards the old grumblers rule is lessened as that test can be re-rolled by the presence of a BSB. With terror changed to causing a panic test when charging longbeards have become immune to terror though.

I haven't really seen much change in pts for battles.

amysrevenge
01-11-2010, 15:32
The ONLY time you take Longbeards over Hammerers is for army composition requirements (or if you're experimenting with Rangers), since Longbeards can at least come out of your 25% Core while Hammerers have to share Special with the best warmachines.

Stubborn >> Immune to Panic.

Novrain
01-11-2010, 15:41
I sometimes run a unit of around 17 / 18 longbeards with shields and MroGrungni as a kind of BSB bunker.

I dont like having my lord and BSB in the same unit (hammerers) as it just becomes a massive purple sun target and while having my bsb in a second unit of hammerers could be effective I dont really intend for them ever to see serious combat so I go with the models I prefer.

And I much prefer the old metal longbeard models to the hammerer ones....

In terms of effectiveness go hammerers, in terms of love, go longbeards just so you can grumble into your beard a bit...

Sand
01-11-2010, 16:25
I sometimes run a unit of around 17 / 18 longbeards with shields and MroGrungni as a kind of BSB bunker.

I think I'm gonna have to do up a conversion of Mr. O'Grungni, the Irish dwarf.

Luigi
02-11-2010, 21:15
ok then, hammerers will be.
I don't have a bsb though...
how many point are people usually plaing nowadays?
(in canada)

The_Bear_in_the_Hat
03-11-2010, 00:17
Well the other Longbeard advantage is that they are much cheaper to buy, but it's a very easy conversion to turn warriors into Hammerers by getting a few bits off ebay and if you can be bothered to spend the time sculpting the extra details the unit will look a lot better than the metal ones.

theunwantedbeing
03-11-2010, 00:20
Take both, one is core one is special.

Luigi
03-11-2010, 04:39
Well the other Longbeard advantage is that they are much cheaper to buy.

that's true but i NEVER buy new miniatures or if i do never in a store: they simply are not worth all that money, at the end they are simply very fancy toy soldiers.
good idea the conversion one though, got to try it...

The_Bear_in_the_Hat
04-11-2010, 01:59
I very rarely buy from stores either, Luigi; but Hammerers will also cost more on ebay or from local sales. The Hammerer conversions can be either very simple and representative (basically giving plastic dwarves great hammers) or much more ornate and complicated; depending on your level of skill.

Well worth getting the bits off ebay and making a few to see what you think. Cheap test run.

ztlambe
04-11-2010, 14:59
I do enjoy running Longbeards now, mostly due to running them as rangers with Throwing Axes. (I always include Bugman in my lists)

Having GW/Shield/Throwing axes gives you a durable and punchy scout unit, that I've found really helps with a number of things, potential first turn charges, messing with opponents scouts/vanguard moves, and just throwing a cog in the opponents deployment. (Many opponents will spread deployment to avoid a scout getting behind them and hunting war-machines)

However If I were to run a block just to stay in my battle line, I would choose hammers everyday of the week for alot of the reasons mentioned above.

Hashulaman
04-11-2010, 23:23
I think Hammerers make the best unit to put your general in, especially a Lord or Thane. They are made specifcily for protecting him, just like Temple Guard are made to protect a Slaan.