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Lord Skrolk
01-11-2010, 21:37
Hi All,

I'm playing my first game against Tomb kings with my VC this Thursday and was after some help. Also I am playing the head of my local games club, which I have recently joined. Having lost the last two games there I'm pretty keen not to get a pasting! Any advice on tactics and troop choice hugely appreciated.

I have about 6,000 pts of VC to choose from for a 2,400 pt battle but I have to admit to feeling a bit lost?

Zombie dragon,
6 vampires (3 mounted)
Wight king x 2 (1bsb)
4 necros (2 on horse)
45 skele spears 2 x full command
45 skele swords 2 x full command
40 ghouls 2 x full command
34 wolves 4 doomwolves
70 zombies 2 x full command
2 corpse carts
40 grave guard 2 x full command
16 black knights 2 x full command
6 fell bats
6 cairn wraiths + 1 banshee
2 Varghulfs
1 black coach

Goldenwolf
01-11-2010, 22:25
It will be interesting, do you know what he fields?

The Corpse Carts, and some forbidden lore of Death or Beasts should help you out.

Ghouls are your best core unit, with GG being a good line anchor.

Lord Skrolk
01-11-2010, 23:00
I know he fields 2 screaming skull catapults, not a lot else. But that knowledge alone makes we weeeeeeeeee with fright.

Will go with Ghouls as usual now, they rock hard. Grave guard - drakenhoff poss.

Rare, thinking poss blood knights with choppy lord and blood drinker supported by black coach?

Not sure wether to go magic heavy or combat heavy. I could go for casty lord with shot loads of necro's. A I haven't plaid tomb kings before I don't fully know what to expect from magic, was wondering if I could get any pearls re suggested builds?

Cheers chaps

Goldenwolf
01-11-2010, 23:40
Look at the TK tactics thread, it has some jewels in it.

If he is smart, he'll play the Wizards Hat on one of his guys. Countering this can be difficult, but the Feedback Scroll can work depending on his ward save, and lore he gets. You may be better off with the Black Periapt, but realise that he will dominate the magic phase on his turn, and disrupt yours somewhat.

Rather than Blood Knights( I love the models, but 8th is more vicious than 7th), I would use some Black Knights to roll through Terrain and maybe hit his Chariots and Catapults, and maybe even his Heiro. Charging Chariots is always good to avoid the Impact Hits, and smashing a unit of 3+ can be beautiful.

How many points are you playing?

Darkangeldentist
02-11-2010, 03:54
Tomb king magic is brutal now and their catapults can really hurt due to the twice a turn barrage they can lay down.

I would take a unit of Cairn wraiths and a varghulf or two. These are fast, nasty and most importantly very difficult for the tomb kings to deal with. Wraiths being skirmishers that can only be hurt by magical attacks is a huge boon here, only characters and tomb guard will worry them in combat and the catapults are not ideal to hurt them. Varghulfs hate the carapults but as a single model he'll be taking a bit of chance trying to hit them. With their speed you can have them in combat very quickly.

If the catapults are really a problem then maybe fell bats or several small units of dire wolves could work out to deal with them. It won't be that easy as the catapults no longer rely on line of sight and both units have rather poor hitting power.

Ghouls are probably the best core unit you can take, toughness four is nice and they dish out plenty of pain in combat with their many poisoned attacks. A unit of skeletons won't be any worse than his though. Grave guard are better than tomb guard in many respects with better armour and magic banner options. Take a big unit and keep it healthy.

Make sure you've a solid magic phase as you'll really want some spells going off each turn, if only to recoup the losses you will incurr on the way in.

Good luck.

Yamabushi
02-11-2010, 07:25
As a TK player, I would advise against taking Varghulfs, as the Casket would eat that thing alive. With only a paltry Ld of 4, any above average good roll will take it down fast. As the casket goes last in the Magic Phase, a single flamming archer smite earlier in the phase will remove your regen. Just something for your consideration...

Darkangeldentist
02-11-2010, 07:34
The casket still only affects units that can draw line of sight to it, if I recall correctly? In which case there is always the possibility of facing the wrong way and then the slight risk of relying on magic to get you into combat after marching into position.

Also doesn't the casket allow you to use the generals Ld if he is in range of the unit? If so that Varghulf can stay quite close to him on turn 1 and so not worry too much about the casket.

Yamabushi
02-11-2010, 07:44
That is true Dark. On both the LoS as well as using the General Ld.

When assaulting the Casket, remember that the Casket Guards (who have a total of 4magical killing blow ASL S6 attacks) can use the Casket Priest's ward save, if he has any. .

As you would usually outnumber him unit count wise, a smart TK player would probably bunker in a corner, as he doesnt have the numbers for a long battle line. Use this to your advantage.

meneroth
02-11-2010, 14:59
TK magic is good, but not directly threatening to you your army. he will have more spells than you can stop simply by number of dice, but you will be able to dispel whatever you want to, you just have to pick the ones you dont like.

Your magic should go through no problem if you have a lvl 4, since the highest he can get is a lvl 3 and TK have no good anti magic items. with black periph (sp?) and master of black arts, your totally set on magic, if you choose to go that ro'ute (personally i wouldnt)

Nothing in the TK army can stop a fully tooled up combat vamp lord. nothing. not even close. a lucky scorpion roll, maybe, but why you left it alive after your attacks doesnt make sense to me anyway. bottom line: its worth taking a terrifying vamp lord. i would gove with red fury and infinite hatred, the +3 attack sword and nightshroud. maybe potion of strength if you want.

Take a vargulf, no question, nothing can kill catapults like he can, and he can hunt down and catch any liches out in the open.

The casket isnt that bad, as it can be dispelled every turn, you just have to save dice for it. you keep that in mind and its nothing to worry about.

ghouls are the way to go against TK, it makes the archers and SSC have alot more trouble wounding you, and if he has scorpions, bone giant, or ushapti, poison is really helpful.

blood knights are worth taking, he has nothing that can directly kill them without any problem, and they can destroy just about any TK unit on the charge. the only thing they would have to even think about staying away from is the TK and scorpions. anything else is fair game.

wights may not be a bad idea, but if he takes the staff of ravening, your in a spot of trouble, i would pass them up and go with blood knights and a vargulf.

corpse carts would be nice, but i dont think 100% neccessary, its really your call on that one. their buffs are always nice, but TK infantry is so bad i dont know if you'll even need them.

You will probably face at TK gunline, lots of archers and catapults, with liches making them fire again, so expect to take casualties on the way in, but in CC you have a distinct advantage.

eyescrossed
02-11-2010, 15:10
Your Lords will own his in combat.

Personal experience, heh.


Other than that, I've got nothing to say besides echoing meneroth

spiderman5z
02-11-2010, 17:48
watch out for the casket it will vaporize low ld stuff like ur varghulf

Lord Skrolk
02-11-2010, 18:39
Totally brilliant, thanks a million. I feel prepped and ready for some skull and bones action. Will post results soon after.

Cheers again : )

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 01:15
Good luck :
)

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 01:15
Good luck :)

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 01:18
Good luck :)

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 01:19
Good luck :)

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 03:31
Holy crap. What the hell caused this?

Yamabushi
03-11-2010, 07:31
It's like TK incantation spam! You just can't stop them all! :p

eyescrossed
03-11-2010, 08:09
Hahaha, yeah :D

Lord Skrolk
03-11-2010, 08:36
Lol!

Hey, just out of interest, how would the black coach power dice absorbing work against TK?

I have taken your advice and gone for a combat lord, blood knights, 40 ghouls, 35 skele hw's, 20 grave guard - drakenhoff wk, couple packs of wolves necro and varghulf.

However, this leaves my centre Vampless and slow. I tool book of arkhan on nec to help shift them. So, I was thinking a black coach could not only keep my centre line marching, but more importantly really mess with his casting and average out my low level magic - I have a lv 3 & 1.

Or should i stick with the varg to go warmachine hunting?

Thoughts?

Cheers

Yamabushi
03-11-2010, 09:41
The Black Coach would suck up power dice as usual. Although TK incantations do not use power dice, they generate them as usual - to be used with Bound Items, or to dispel RIP spells.

Lord Skrolk
03-11-2010, 10:33
Am I right in thinking that the TK wizards generate a fixed amount of dice each, which is effectively there pool? I.e 3 for a Heirophant etc? Whats a regular TK army total in terms of power dice, is it worth taking the coach with invocation?

Enigmatik1
03-11-2010, 12:29
Am I right in thinking that the TK wizards generate a fixed amount of dice each, which is effectively there pool? I.e 3 for a Heirophant etc? Whats a regular TK army total in terms of power dice, is it worth taking the coach with invocation?

Not quite.

TK characters, discounting the Icon Bearer, cast their Incantations using a fixed amount of dice but there is no pool. Each character may only ever roll those dice to cast their Incantations each time they are used.

Hiche High Priest = 2 Incants on 3D6 each
Liche Priest = 1 Incant on 2D6
Tomb King = 2 Incants on D6 each
Tomb Prince = 1 Incant on D6
Casket of Souls = Light of Death at end of phase on 2D6

Bound items are cast outside of this and use the dice generated by the Winds of Magic like everyone else, as does the Wizarding Hat (if used).

The only way the Black Coach is going to have a direct, negative impact on your opponent is if he fields the Wizarding Hat really as it will have no affect whatsoever on your opponents Incantations.

Lord Skrolk
03-11-2010, 13:13
I see, well that rules out Black Coach and puts a red circle around Mr Vargulf.

Cheers fella, much appreciated.

Darkangeldentist
03-11-2010, 16:04
Lol!

Hey, just out of interest, how would the black coach power dice absorbing work against TK?

I have taken your advice and gone for a combat lord, blood knights, 40 ghouls, 35 skele hw's, 20 grave guard - drakenhoff wk, couple packs of wolves necro and varghulf.

However, this leaves my centre Vampless and slow. I tool book of arkhan on nec to help shift them. So, I was thinking a black coach could not only keep my centre line marching, but more importantly really mess with his casting and average out my low level magic - I have a lv 3 & 1.

Or should i stick with the varg to go warmachine hunting?

Thoughts?

Cheers

As the previous people answered, the black coach's invocation of death is pretty much useless to the point of being detrimental against tomb kings. It's not bad as a chariot but not much else.

The basis for the list you've got above looks fine, if you are worried about the infantry being slow then have the lord go on foot and keep them marching. Varghulfs and Blood knights will still be in range of spell support on the first turn, possibly the second and do not really need any help killing the tomb king units. Blood knights will positively ride through them by themselves if you get the charge. The lord with the infantry will keep the whole centre marching and him much safer.

Chiron
03-11-2010, 22:48
Take cheap blocks of skeletons and mock him, making sure to drink his salty tears

Lord Skrolk
03-11-2010, 23:05
Ok,

so I have worked out two lists (as always!) to choose from...

Let us know your thoughts.

List 1

Vamp lord + 1 level (425)
lord of the dead, summon ghouls, dark acolyte, avatar of death
helm of commandment, black periapt, walach's bloody hauberk

Wight King BSB (225)
Drakenhoff Banner

Necromancer (190)
Riding Corpse Cart, Invocation of Nehek, Vanhels Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll

30 Grave Guard, GW's, Full command (465)
Banner of the Barrows

24 Ghouls, Crypt Ghast (200)

20 Zombies (80)

20 Zombies (80)

20 Skeletons, HW's, Full Command (180)

10 Dire Wolves (80)

1 Varghulf (175)

6 Cairn Wraiths (300)

TOTAL 2,400


List 2

Vampire Lord (380)
Infinite Hatred, Red Fury
Sword of Strife, Nightshroud, Crown of the dammed, Iron Curse Icon

Vampire Hero (195)
Dread Knight, Infinite hatred
Blood Drinker, Luckstone

Wight King BSB (225)
Drakenhoff Banner

5 Blood Knights (400)
Full command, Flag of blood keep

20 Grave Guard (315)
GW's, Full command, War banner

39 Ghouls, Ghast (320)

34 Skeletons (309)
HW + Shields, Full command, banner of endless nightmares

5 Dire Wolves (40)

5 Dire Wolves (40)

Varghulf (175)

TOTAL 2,399



Which one should I use? ARGH!!!!

My thoughts are with second one, on account of loving blood knights and evil blood drinker combo. And that first list has wraiths which his skull catapults will cane.

:confused:

spiderman5z
03-11-2010, 23:55
I would go with the second one.