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View Full Version : Take the plate and leave the Marauders at home?



redarmy27
02-11-2010, 13:08
Hey all, new here!

I'm in the middle of gathering my funds up to create a WOC army. My list will consist of primarily Warriors, two small detachments of knights, a hell cannon, some pups and the rest warriors.

Am I better going all warriors or should I throw some marauders in there as well? I'm not really a fan of them and I'm looking at buying stuff in bulk currently.

I love the warrior models a bit more, and plus, while they're a bit more costly than marauders, warriors are beasts in combat. Sure, I can horde up marauders a bit for some beefage and give them GW and MOK, but they'll be shredded by shooting. Am I just being paranoid? I'm just worried about losing a ton of guys before I get into combat due to the high number of HE's, Dwarves and Skaven at my local centres.

Also, I can't use character at the majority of my centres either; it's frowned upon :(

Any thoughts on appropriate unit sizing if I were to go all warriors or perhaps have a mix of both?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

All the best,

Jake

Rake
02-11-2010, 13:14
50 Marauders with MoK and GW are DIRT cheap. I would not depend on them to win the battle but they punch WAY above their weight so if you put them on a flank your opponent will be hard pressed to deal with the rest of your army. Well worth the points even if they get shot to oblivion.

The_Bear_in_the_Hat
02-11-2010, 13:34
You're probably going to want at least one large block in 8th. Chaos warrios will still be very effective, but the "steadfast" rule now means that breaking large blocks with small but powerful units is much harder. You don't get points for models killed, after all; you need to be breaking units.

Try taking a couple of units with a decent depth to them and treating your Chaos warriors as a counter-punch unit. Equally, you'll need to support your knights in the new addition. They'll handle themselves in combat, but if they get bogged down you've essentially wasted a big lump of points. Trying giving them a support unit that can (a) block large units from charging your knights, to tie them up and (b) flank units the Knight's get stuck into and helping to break them.

Using cheap cavalry like Marauder horsemen as support units for knights had always been effective, but I think it's becoming more necessary now.

Either way, facing hordes of cheap troops is now much tougher for your Chaos Warriors and Knights - as you lack artillery and missiles to break the units down before your attack.........so you need to figure out ways to counter them.

Good luck!

sssk
02-11-2010, 15:32
interesting question. I'll start off saying I have no experience of playing with or against warriors of Chaos (since 6th edition in fact), but I've seen a fair few battles involving them (go on youtube and find "Vaulsc", that'll show you what a big unit of marauders with great weapons can and can't do).

Anyway, my main point here is in fact regarding wood elves (bear with me). My wood elves have no ranked units (the occasional unit of archers, but if they get to combat they're dead anyway, so I'm not counting them) yet still do alright in combat because of treemen and treekin. Now these have no standards, no ranks (to speak of) and often won't get the charge (only movement 5, which is slow for big things), yet they win combats by what I like to call "utterly mincing things". ie they have a lot of high (ish) strength attacks, and win fights that way.

Now, returning to your chaos chaps. You can use the same principle as I do, and equip your warriors with 2 hand weapons, or halberds (again, see Vaulsc for how killy these guys are) and mince units that way. Now obviously warriors aren't as survivable as my tree folks, and aren't as numerous as marauders. But they're fairly middle of the ground (between tree chaps and marauders), and if you choose a lore of magic which gives you some nice bonuses (I'm looking at strength and/or toughness here) they will just munch whatever is in front of them (within reason). Obviously there will be kills in return (and kills from shooting), but as long as you can keep plenty of attacks in each combat (charge with warriors and knights at the same time for instance), you should be able to keep winning.

Now I'm not saying that this is the way to go. I'm just saying that if you want to go all warriors, then go all warriors. It's perfectly feasible, and just because marauders are a very optimal choice (cheap and hard hitting), that doesn't mean they're the only choice.

CaliforniaGamer
02-11-2010, 15:42
50 Marauders with MoK and GW are DIRT cheap. I would not depend on them to win the battle but they punch WAY above their weight so if you put them on a flank your opponent will be hard pressed to deal with the rest of your army. Well worth the points even if they get shot to oblivion.

50x25mm bases is a HUGE footprint for a single unit. Ive tried it and it simply is not effective given the amount of terrain 8th ed has. After being frustrated Im now doing 6x6 (36-man units) for 1 more rank and less of a footprint for opponent combo-charges.

redarmy27
02-11-2010, 18:54
Hahaha thanks for the feedback guys.

Currently I have the option of getting one of two armies:

Army one- The Potpurri Army
40- Marauders
24- Warriors
10- Knights
20- Hounds
Price: $180

Army two- "When Doves Cry" Army
1- Tzeentch lord on disc
1- Nurgle Sorcerer
1- Chaos Sorcerer w/ familiar
1- Exhalted Champ on Dem. Steed
36- Warriors
12- Hounds
11- Knights
1- Hell Cannon
Price: $308


Any thoughts?


Jake

puckus10
02-11-2010, 20:53
1st one but convert a lord and sorceror.

decker_cky
02-11-2010, 21:23
My experience is that either going all armoured warriors, or all marauders. Against all warriors, you can't take everything down. On the other hand, all marauders is near impossible to take out all those numbers.

I'd warn against going too heavily into frenzy without sufficient smaller units to support big blocks. Non-frenzied units can just reform after breaking a unit, but frenzied units have to overrun which opens them to easy redirection and counter-charge if your opponent has smaller support units.

Dreadgrass
02-11-2010, 21:52
Are the models unassembled? I tend to find when buying models in bulk that how they're assembled and painted (as well as how close they are to what I want) can play a big role...

redarmy27
03-11-2010, 06:04
In package one they are.

Package two they aren't. I may go with number two (which is actually only $155) and then buy another box of warriors. Sound good?

Jake

oldschoolmonk
03-11-2010, 12:37
I regularly play an opponent who takes no marauders. Three blocks of MoK Halberdiers are very difficult to take on for many armies, and we have seen them butcher many Bretonnian Knights before the knights get to attack. He still has enough points for 1-2 shrines, a level 4 caster, hounds/spawn, and a hell cannon if he chooses.

MoK Marauders are very difficult to handle, but so far he has not been happy with how much room they take and what they do. I've thrown a lone PoK Dreadlord at the unit before just to stop most of his army from advancing around the large block, and once he stripped enough ranks I hit them hard in the flank with another unit. They might be a better option if you play against hordes who cannot avoid you.

Havock
03-11-2010, 13:29
I have some succes with fielding 2x20 tzeentch shield warriors. They are bricks that can attrition just about everything bar huge blocks of white lions and such (gogo hellcannon)

They were somewhat built that way (second handed stuff) and we all know that properly glued shields are impossible to rip off cleanly. So I was thinking 'what can boost their damage output?

New book gives the answer: the armor piercing banner; sure, it is expensive, but it seems tailor-made for these guys. Marauders and their equivalent? Splat.
You will need heavy armor and a shield to even get a save bar the parrying one. And you can still keep yourself 5 wide to minimize incoming attacks.

Of course, it is hard to beat the economy of 50 marauders with great weapons. That is until template-spewing stuff comes into play. Or unit-wide spells, debuffs for one.

Still, 50 guys is wayyyyy too many for me to paint & assemble :p

PeG
03-11-2010, 17:24
My most frequent opponents field WoC and huge blocks of marauders are rare. A frenzied marauder horde with GW will strike last and do 20-24 S6A against a 5 wide opponent. My opponents favorite unit at the moment which is 24 khorne warriors with extra handweapons will do 30S4A at a higher WS.

Against T3 that will give around the same number of wounds or a slight advantage to the warriors depending on WS but the warriors will usually take less wounds back due to better save, they will usually strike first (except for elves) and they have better WS.

Eltharil
03-11-2010, 17:30
Small edit: A 6-wide GW Marauders unit deals 19 attacks (2x6 first rank, 1 champion, 6 support) an are S5