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SilasOfTheLambs
03-11-2010, 15:52
Here's the only answer for this guy that I've managed to come up with in the empire codex. The version our gaming club sees the most of is built with:

The pendant of Khaecheese
blood armor (in other words, normally eventually a 1+ armor save)
a magic weapon of some kind
crown of command to make him stubborn.

So, he only fails his armor saves on 1's and his ward saves on 6's and can never be induced to run from combat even once his whole unit is dead.

My thoughts:
Build a lord-level character (personally I prefer arch lectors, but take your pick) with:

Hammer of Judgment (any hit forces a toughness test, if failed, target takes a no-armor wound)
The Other Trickster's shard (enemies in base-to-base with bearer must re-roll successful ward saves).
Pick your protective items (Armor of Meteoric Iron and a dawnstone would work fine if walking).

So, any time you hit him, he takes a T test and if he fails it you skip his armor. It's a s4 hit, so he fails his ward save on a 5 or 6 and has to re-roll successes for a 50% likelihood of getting a wound through if you hit twice.

Thoughts on this idea? any other ideas? empire only please.

Eltharil
03-11-2010, 16:05
you can kill it with spells, lore of death is good for that as they will multi-hit the lord without armor save and no S value.
An fatalitas will help you to break it with a poor Ld 7.

grumbaki
03-11-2010, 16:11
I tried this last edition and I got into arguments about whether sword of fate / hammer of judgment hit with str 4 or not. If you want to kill him in CC, I'd go with your pendant idea.

Grand Master: Sword of Fate (wound on 2+, no AS allowed, d3 wounds), pond stone (RR failed AS), Trickster's Shard (RR WS)

So you will do 2 hits and probably 2 wounds. He gets a 3+ WS, which he has to RR, and then you do d3 wounds. Chances are that he'll go with the str 6 halberd for a magic weapon, so that'll give you a 4+/4+ when he hits you, and your grand master can probably survive that. Best of luck!

SilasOfTheLambs
03-11-2010, 16:58
Hm.

A grand master is a very suboptimal choice in my opinion, but I *really* like the sword of fate idea. Multiwounding would finish the little punk off much faster than sneaking through one at a time. Thanks!

Tallopolis
03-11-2010, 17:55
I came up against a Dreadlord on a dragon in game 1 of the recent Throne of Skulls, I never found out what he was armed with, though i suspect it was similar to this.... I killed him in one go with dwellers, and almost took the dragon with him :D if only he'd rolled the 5 &6 the other way round :D

The_Cheat137
04-11-2010, 03:56
Exactly. You do exactly what Empire does to any Elf. Dwellers, Final Transmutation have a 1 in 3 chance to flat out kill him with each cast.

Barring that, you may be able to beat him in CR and run him down.

sulla
04-11-2010, 04:25
Dragons are pretty suicidal choices vs the empire anyway. If mine survived past the 2nd empire shooting phase, I'd consider it a moral victory. :)

DivineVisitor
04-11-2010, 04:34
Get Ghal Maraz on the case! Especially if they lower your strength with some Death Magic Doo'daa's :p

Tallopolis
04-11-2010, 11:03
Dragons are pretty suicidal choices vs the empire anyway. If mine survived past the 2nd empire shooting phase, I'd consider it a moral victory. :)

i was using high elves not empire though, (i did have a dragon, it didn't die all tournament) but i think the Original poster wasn't referring to a dreadlord on a dragon.....

oldschoolmonk
04-11-2010, 12:52
Do you really need to kill him? He's around 250 points if I remember correctly and I doubt he is going to cut down 50 halberdiers over the course of a game. I've seen one die to the first attack with the Mace of Helstrum, but that was pretty unlucky for the poor elf. Blow up his unit with a mortar, or shoot his mount with a cannonball then just ignore him. If you have Dwellers of course use it on his unit, likewise with death, but he doesnt NEED to die. If he hits and wounds every turn from 2-6 with all his attacks he will score 40 kills == 200 points of halberdiers. You still win.

I play Dark Elves, and wouldn't be very happy if I was stuck in a combat with trash units the entire game.

hungry hungry hormagaunt
04-11-2010, 14:18
He's built to be unkillable. Trying to kill him is just playing into your opponent's hands. Feed him a cheapass tar-pit unit of your own and tie him up for the whole game.

frapermax
04-11-2010, 14:30
S4 crossbow shooting, or even better S4 AP handguns always do the trick. Otherwise, tarpit him.

Lex
04-11-2010, 15:43
Exactly. You do exactly what Empire does to any Elf. Dwellers, Final Transmutation have a 1 in 3 chance to flat out kill him with each cast.

Barring that, you may be able to beat him in CR and run him down.

Final transmutation only kills him on a 6.

But, the best answer is always just to tarpit him. I've lost my DL several times when he's just fighting a unit.

Lex
04-11-2010, 15:45
I came up against a Dreadlord on a dragon in game 1 of the recent Throne of Skulls, I never found out what he was armed with, though i suspect it was similar to this.... I killed him in one go with dwellers, and almost took the dragon with him :D if only he'd rolled the 5 &6 the other way round :D

Since Dwellers hits models, is not a template and the dragon + DL is a single model, wouldn't it be a single strength test on the dragon's strength and remove the whole thing if failed?

SilasOfTheLambs
04-11-2010, 20:21
He's built to be unkillable. Trying to kill him is just playing into your opponent's hands. Feed him a cheapass tar-pit unit of your own and tie him up for the whole game.

That makes some real sense, but I find this approach dissatisfying on two levels.
1) I dislike starting the game knowing I'm going to leave a 350-pt model (counting general bonus) on the table, especially when it's the enemy's general. I play most seriously in tournaments, and you need massacres, which it's tough to do if you gameplan to ignore the general.

2) Less rationally, he's a t3 elf and it annoys me to think of him as unkillable. The other guy thinks of his dreadlord as unkillable, and routinely stuffs him into any combat he can as soon as possible, so there should be some way to kill *anything* in 4-5 rounds of close combat.

I think the Sword of Justice/Other Trickster's Shard combo is the best one the empire has available for a dreadlord in an infantry block, so I'll probably end in going with that.

Jericho
09-11-2010, 16:25
Pendant of Khaelith is patently not a ward save, so the Other Trickster Shard won't work. Just FYI.

Drakemaster
09-11-2010, 17:05
Actually its description explicitly states it is a ward save :

This gives a ward save, based on the strength of the hit...
So Tricksters Shard is fine.

theunwantedbeing
09-11-2010, 17:35
The pendant of Khaecheese
blood armor (in other words, normally eventually a 1+ armor save)
a magic weapon of some kind
crown of command to make him stubborn.

So, he only fails his armor saves on 1's and his ward saves on 6's and can never be induced to run from combat even once his whole unit is dead.

Sword of fate, The Other Tricksters Shard, Dawnstone.
Full plate, Barded steed, Sheild.
Give him the 4+ ward if your especially worried about dying.

You can do this on a General of the Empire if you really want.

Nominate the enemy general obviously as the target of the sword of fate.
3 attacks wounding on a 2+, ignoring armour doing D3 wounds is plenty to kill the dreadlord when your making him re-roll that pendant.
You'll have a 1+ re-rollable save in return and a 4+ ward.

The Dreadlord can be beaten in combat anyway.
A roll of an 11+ for his break test and he runs.

Note hugely likely of course, but keep making him take tests and eventually he will break and run.

Simplest method is death magic though.
Caress of Laniph or Fate of Bjuna (how is that even pronounced???:wtf:) Boona? Joona?
Neither have a strength value so the pendant does diddly squat and the dreadlord is wounded on a 4+ or 2+ respectively and his armour is ignored too.

Dwellers has a 1/3 chance to take him out as well.

Unkillable dreadlord indeed.....laughable.