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Inquisitor S.
03-11-2010, 21:01
Hello Warseerites,
during a discussion concerning the number of certain planet classes I came across the term "aggregate". Please read the 3rd Edition rulebook pages 114/115 to see what I mean, it's the third classification category from above in each box. For everybody else I will just cite one example.


Aggregate: 100:

So now I would like to know if maybe a native speaker or a savant here could explain me what's up with this. Meaning: what does the word mean and why is there a colon after the number (what does the colon mean).

If you wonder why: in the German translation of the rulebook Aggregate was changed to "numbers" and "100:" to "10000". So I am more than just a little bit puzzled, because I can not really follow this translation.

Thank you for your help.

SolkaTruesilver
03-11-2010, 21:05
The aggregate (usually) means the sum of the parts of a whole. If you present, for example, the U.S. population, you could say:

U.S. (Aggregate) : 300 M
California: 30M
etc..

It usually a way to mention that it's a sum of parts

Inquisitor S.
03-11-2010, 21:09
Okay, I could accept that, except we have no clue what aggregate is refering to in this case because it is not mentioned. But how does the ":" stand for units of 100? Until now I only know "K" for thousands or "M" for millions, but ":" as a number abbreviation for hundreds?

SolkaTruesilver
03-11-2010, 21:19
Not that I know of. Can you write down what's written in that info box in totality?

Inquisitor S.
03-11-2010, 21:35
Example: http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1999/scanrb3rdboxdeadworlds.jpg

Idaan
03-11-2010, 21:42
It's the number of the worlds. When you multiply all the aggregate numbers by 100 (IIRC) and add them up, you get ~ one million worlds.

Inquisitor S.
03-11-2010, 21:47
That is a nice theory, however what is the basis for it? And where does it say that you have to multiply by 100 (which is a pretty strange multiplicator).

Londinium
03-11-2010, 22:40
# Construction aggregate, materials used in construction, including sand, gravel, crushed stone, slag, or recycled crushed concrete.

Perhaps it's a ranking or a unit measurement of the planet's mineral and natural wealth?

Inquisitor S.
03-11-2010, 22:43
Perhaps it's a ranking or a unit measurement of the planet's mineral and natural wealth?

I could live with that, same as we don't know exactly what "aestimare" would mean. Just I have a big problem with what seems like a deliberate mis-translation of background information, that is why I want to make sure it is indeed a mis-translation and not a previously (to me) unknown obscure English language counting or referencing system...

Hellebore
04-11-2010, 00:04
Aestimare is a real latin word.

present active infinitive of aestimō (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aestimo#Latin).

So going on the definition of Aestimare, Aggregate can't be a measure of wealth.

Hellebore

HiveFleetEzekial
04-11-2010, 00:06
Quick search on that one, I.S.: http://forums.tauonline.org/general-40k/44698-aestimare.html

AndrewGPaul
04-11-2010, 00:13
That is a nice theory, however what is the basis for it? And where does it say that you have to multiply by 100 (which is a pretty strange multiplicator).

It doesn't say anywhere :rolleyes: However, if you add them up, you get 10,000. An accepted value for the number of worlds in the Imperium is one million. Hence, a factor of 100.

It's as good a theory as any. Those two pages (pages 114-115 of the 3rd edition rulebook, for those following along at home) are a quick guide to the sorts of planets found in the Imperium. There's no point trying to discern any deep meaning from the numbers given, really. The same goes for the Aestimare and Tithe Grade details. About all you can get from the latter is that Aptus Non means no tithe and that Solutio grades probably come below Decuma and Exactis grades in terms of required material.

Inquisitor S.
04-11-2010, 09:04
@AndrewGPaul:

There's no point trying to discern any deep meaning from the numbers given, really.

You did not understand me or what I want to find out. I do not even really want to take a meaning from these numbers. The point is that in the original version of the rulebook obviously there is no number of planets given for each class, whereas in the official German Games Workshop translation you suddenly have absolute numbers. Meaning it's not a translation anymore but a creation of new background. Meaning we can not treat the two rulebooks as the same source anymore in the Lexicanum and that we have to re-check all information taken from it.

MagosHereticus
04-11-2010, 09:34
@AndrewGPaul:


You did not understand me or what I want to find out. I do not even really want to take a meaning from these numbers. The point is that in the original version of the rulebook obviously there is no number of planets given for each class, whereas in the official German Games Workshop translation you suddenly have absolute numbers. Meaning it's not a translation anymore but a creation of new background. Meaning we can not treat the two rulebooks as the same source anymore in the Lexicanum and that we have to re-check all information taken from it.

aggregate is essentially the average value for a measurement taken several times

for example the mass of 1cm^3 of distilled water at 25oC and at 1 atm is 1g (iirc) however if we measure this experimentally we will almost definitely not get this result, instead we will get a bell shaped curve of values centred around the "true value, the base of which will depend on the precision of the instrumentation we are using

the reason planet counts are being discussed as aggregates is to convey that the imperium is so huge that absolute definite values planet classes it not really possible, but repeated measurements give what is likely to be the best most accurate answer (and used to denote the range of possible values)

my brother had this problem when he was working at a highway engineering firm, he could not get a definite count on the number of road barriers the company possessed even after weeks of inquiries, drove him mental

AndrewGPaul
04-11-2010, 11:47
@AndrewGPaul:


You did not understand me or what I want to find out. I do not even really want to take a meaning from these numbers. The point is that in the original version of the rulebook obviously there is no number of planets given for each class, whereas in the official German Games Workshop translation you suddenly have absolute numbers. Meaning it's not a translation anymore but a creation of new background. Meaning we can not treat the two rulebooks as the same source anymore in the Lexicanum and that we have to re-check all information taken from it.


Translation error, probably. ":" as a suffix is meaningless in English. It certainly doesn't mean "x100". The background material is full of stuff like that to give the feel of actual Imperial documents (numbers being given in pseudo-scientific notation such as "36 x8^3" for example). The translator possibly didn't realise it was supposed to be meaningless, and "corrected" it.

I would suggest that the English language book, being the original, should be considered correct, and any deviations from that be considered errors. In this instance the error probably says what the original author was implying in any case. :)

MagosHereticus, the term doesn't appear to be being used in that context in this instance. It could mean, if you want it to, that the following information (Tithe grade and Aestimare) has been aggregated from the listed number of worlds (as opposed to the Aggregate value being the total number of worlds of that type).

Inquisitor S.
04-11-2010, 11:51
Thank you for this elaboration, ist fits my own estimation of the situation.


I would suggest that the English language book, being the original, should be considered correct, and any deviations from that be considered errors.

Yes, that is how we normally handle it, Original always has the higher priority. If the translation error indeed implies what the original author wanted to say will be treated as speculation, as we can not prove it.

MagosHereticus
04-11-2010, 12:01
MagosHereticus, the term doesn't appear to be being used in that context in this instance. It could mean, if you want it to, that the following information (Tithe grade and Aestimare) has been aggregated from the listed number of worlds (as opposed to the Aggregate value being the total number of worlds of that type).

still pretty meaningless to me :shifty:

El_Machinae
04-11-2010, 14:19
They got their emoticon backwards

:o

:o

:0

0:

:D
D:

AndrewGPaul
04-11-2010, 14:45
still pretty meaningless to me :shifty:

Me too. That was the best I could come up with to make it sound semi-reasonable. "Sample size" would be better. It's all technobabble nonsense, really. :)