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View Full Version : So what are the Primarchs exactly?



TheSaylesMan
06-11-2010, 01:15
All of this talk about the new Horus Heresy book on this board have me thinking. Do we know exactly what the Primarchs are? I've gotten up to Fulgrim in the HH series and I'm aware of Horus' vision and the pods and the vague arcano-tech vibe that comes from it. Has there been any specifics as to exactly how the Primarchs were created or how they were so powerful?

I've got some theories of my own as to exactly what happened. I warn, you, there's some rampant speculation ahead. You've been warned. So, we know that the Emperor had some significant chops in the field of "warp sciences". I have a theory that he was aware of the concept of ascension. Daemon Prince-hood. However, who says that this is necessarily an upgrade? Why can't it be a more horizontal transition instead of a vertical one? I mean, being a Daemon has its pros and cons just as being a fleshy being does. With this in mind, why is it impossible for the reverse of "ascension" to happen? Could a daemon, with the help of powerful material forces within the Materium, have a means of being flesh and blood? Daemons that manifest in the Materium already assume a slightly more fleshy state. Is it really a stretch to build a fully functioning and permanent body. Daemonhosts already so something similar.

My idea is that the Emperor either took daemons from the Warp or made pacts with some whom went willingly. These creatures were then put through the process of becoming Material through the Emperor's sciences. The Chaos Gods would be understandably upset by this turn of events and they proceed to do their thing. This would explain the miraculous powers of the Primarchs and the why the so called Clone Sons of Horus aren't as powerful as their predecessor. They lack that spark. They are simply fleshy creatures. Not former being of the Warp.

Anything of published of late to debunk my wild speculation?

MrInsomniac
06-11-2010, 01:43
I would read "The First Heretic". There is a certain Daemon who says words to a similar effect...

MEcorp
06-11-2010, 01:48
While I do think that the primarchs are primarily warp-based (Magnus as depicted in Thousand Sons especially) I highly doubt their daemons given physical form. Daemons draw their power from emotion which means the most powerful daemons are those bound to the gods (strongest emotions). The gods would be unwilling to give up a portion of themselves (some fluff indicates that daemons are willful splitters of the god) in order to assist someone fundamental opposed to their plans (unless they some how planned the Crusade and Heresy from the beginning but now we're just getting paranoid).

To me its more likely that the emperor somehow managed to infuse warp-power/essence into his baby-primarchs in a similar manner to psykers. So in effect the primarchs would all (yes even the blatantly anti-psyker ones) be powerful psykers with 'always on' powers. So Horus might draw his charisma from psykicly influencing peoples thoughts (unknowingly), Angron might draw his strength and Corax his stealth in the same manner. Leman Russ is noted in A Thousand Sons as having an anti-warp scream/howl that I think is similar in manner (if not power) to the White Noise power in Dark Heresy.

The gods may having willingly given the emperor some power to infuse into the primarchs but more likely they were unaware that he had done so. As soon as they became aware of the primarchs they abduct and scatter them. The idea that the emperor bartered for their power (that they present to Horus) is likely a self-delusion the gods have, ie. he took what is ours and put it in you therefore you are ours.

My two cents, YMMV

The_Blind_Anarchist
06-11-2010, 09:57
My take on it is this; The Emperor creates super human bodies so stronger bones, much more and more dense muscle fibres, better vision, hearing etc etc and then using his knowledge of the warp fills each body with massive amounts of pure warp energy(which would upset the Gods having their energy taken away)to 'power' them. So not only do they have super bodies any ways they have a 1million billion zillion(you get the idea) boost from the warp power imbued within them.

mob16151
06-11-2010, 11:04
Mind Blowing time. The Primarchs are the Emperors Demon Princes. Much like the Chaos Gods create demon princes by breaking off a bit of their essence, the emperor did the same with the Primarchs. He used his mastery of genetic science to make them the perfect body's, then proceeded to place "pieces" of himself into each body. Thus explaining why each primarch is a reflection of an aspect of the emperors personality. And making the HH that much more tragic because it's like the left hand rebelling against the right.

bignbadbum
06-11-2010, 22:37
The Primarchs are vat grown humans from the Emperor's own DNA.. That accounts of their personalities and psychic powers.. Each Primarch is regarded as having some sort of their Father's personality or character.. Magnus was his psychic ability and thirst for knowledge, Flugrim his desire for perfection, Angron his anger etc etc. The thing is as I've read it the Emperor also infused them all with Warp energy.. perhaps to strength them, and this is proven somewhat when, Spoiler: Ferrus Manus dies in Fulgrim

I don't think they are nessicarily Daemons.. that is a stretch and would contradict somewhat the idea of them being of his own DNA if they were simply Daemons manifested as humans. Certainly though the Emperor did take Warp Energy and stuff it in the bodies of his sons like stuffing in a turkey at Thanksgiving.

Iuris
06-11-2010, 23:52
How about we call them warp entities, possibly of zodiacal nature (why BL went for that element, I'll never understand), infused into superhuman bodies.

Not exactly demons of chaos, but powers of the warp. And the Chaos gods, in their arrogance, claim all warp as theirs, and so accuse the Emperor of stealing them.

Captain Stern
07-11-2010, 03:29
Maybe they're Zodiacal Kwll and Rhynns a la Moorcock. I.e. They share the same space and characteristics as gods and daemons of Law and Chaos but they're seperate (and not as powerful as K & R were compared to the Chaos Gods in Moorcock's stories obviously).