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loveless
08-11-2010, 17:12
Alright, I should know this, but my mind's a blank.

Let's say you have a successor chapter - they need to get their armour from somewhere, obviously.

Is this going to be primarily newer Mks of power armour, from Corvus to Errant (VI to VIII), or will this include a mix of earlier variants as well?

As such, at which point did the earlier versions stop being used/passed on?

From what I recall, the Red Scorpions make heavy use of Mk IV armour - which would imply that successors have access to armour at least that old (though the Scorpions may be an oddity in that respect).

Do we still see Mk III armour in use? Even Mk V armour seems rare in comparison to Mk IV and Mk VI.

Given this, are the older suits of Power Armour considered venerable? I think the artwork for the Sternguard Veterans has at least one of them with a Mk III helmet, but I could be mistaken.

If so, are founding chapters more likely to keep this for themselves, or are older sets of armour just as likely to end up in the hands of the Crimson Fists, Iron Lords, Mentors, and so forth?

Thanks for your time!

SimonL
08-11-2010, 18:27
Way I see it is that not all the older Mk suits are necessarily old themselves, just the design. Certain Forgeworlds/Chapter armouries may not have the skills/blueprints/resources etc to build the better ones. Or maybe they only have one tech-priest able to make the newer stuff, so there's a ratio...

Some Marines may just like the older, less complicated designs too...like me and my "archaic" 4 year old cell phone. I feel like a caveman sometimes while my friends all have Blackberries, iPhones, etc. I prefer the lack of complication.

Col. Dash
08-11-2010, 21:01
Umm I think in addition to what the guy above me said it goes a bit further. I think newer successor chapters will get whatever the current mk that is being produced closest to their location. In addition a successor chapter doesnt just appear with 1000 trained guys. Please correct me if I am wrong but veterans from the parent chapter go over to the new chapter to create a core cadre of trained individuals to not only give the new chapter some backbone and experience but to train the cherry marines as well. These guys would most likely bring their armor they have been wearing for likely decades and arent going to want to leave it behind. This new armor(and weapons along the same lines) would then become new relic armor over time and passed on thus why chapters have a variety of mks of armor.

loveless
08-11-2010, 21:41
After I realized why I thought I should know this, I checked in on the Space Marine Codex. It does have a nice page describing the different marks of armour and how they're typically treated - older bits seem to get incorporated as "bling" in some instances, or armour worn during particularly important battles/events also has the potential to be somewhat "venerated."

I also noted that the breakdown of the Ultramarine company led by Sicarius has several marks of armour scattered throughout it - this is less helpful, however, as the Ultramarines are a founding Legion.

To further break this down into my own curiosity, I've been considering adding in some Mk III and Mk V armour into my Crimson Fists. Obviously at the end of the day it's my army and I need to make no background justification for it - but I am curious as to whether or not such suits would show up in a successor chapter.

I appreciate the responses so far - they have been helpful :)

Sir_Turalyon
09-11-2010, 00:02
The technology and knowledge to produce all marks of power armour is there, there is just little reason to do new suits of marks older then VI to VIII.

Mark IV has famously good performance, but is expansive, complicated to make, requires exotic materials to manufacture and requires spares not compatibile with other marks; in short, producing it is more trouble it's worth. Some chapters (Red Scorpions? ) may manufacture it because they have better access to materials, or just to show they can.

Mark III is a heavy duty super-resilent armour not intended for everyday duties. While it's relatively simple to produce, the Terminator armour does everything Mark III was designed for, only better. I suppose some chapters with limited access to Terminator suits may produce Mark IIIs and issue them to vanguard veterans to act as "heavy" assault units.

Mark II is another famously good performer on battlefield and not difficult to make, but notoriously hard to repair once damaged. This is the pattern the Mark IV, VI and VII were made to replace, and for good reason. Any Techmarine trying to produce them will soon find himself bogged in maintinance duties.

Mark V is simply not good enough to be produced, being cheap, dirty and underperforming stop-gap design. The only reason it was deployed is that Imperium was desparate for more suits. A chapter that somehow lost many suits of armour while retaining battle-brothers may be desperate enough to bulid these.

Comp
09-11-2010, 00:35
Do Space Marines keep individual suits of power armour? If they do then some of them will take theirs with them during the foundation of successor chapters, and those will then be passed down...

AndrewGPaul
09-11-2010, 08:30
If ytou can, take a look at the colour sections of Imperial Armour volume 9; plenty of Successor Chapters in mark 2 - 6 armour there. As Comp points out, these suits may be hand-me-downs from the parent Chapter. Perhaps the Adeptus Mechanicus has reserve stocks held in mothballs for use in new Foundings?

Lt.DustyMillar
09-11-2010, 11:31
with direct relation to the crimson fist you can use any mk, as a second founding the chapter was created by spliting off a section of the IF legion with the marines taking all the equipment they had with them. Now the crimson fist were supposed to be the younger headstrong marines, but after the heresy with suits been damaged and lost marines would be issued the first available suit, so these chapters would have a big old mix of suits

Leftenant Gashrog
09-11-2010, 16:05
Mark III is a heavy duty super-resilent armour not intended for everyday duties. While it's relatively simple to produce, the Terminator armour does everything Mark III was designed for, only better. I suppose some chapters with limited access to Terminator suits may produce Mark IIIs and issue them to vanguard veterans to act as "heavy" assault units.


The WD129 article (which your apparently going off) did specifically say that "many modern chapters" maintain small compliments of Mk3 specifically for boarding actions and tunnel fighting. Probably because every chapter has only limited access to Terminator suits hence why even the Unforgiven restrict its use to the first company, Mk3 of course could be used by any marine from companies 1-9.


Perhaps the Adeptus Mechanicus has reserve stocks held in mothballs for use in new Foundings? The WD129 article stated that since the Heresy most armour production has been taken over by the Astartes themselves, its possible the AdMech still cranks out suits when a founding takes place but its also possible they simply trade with existing chapters instead ("apparently you filed a request for 10 replacement Land Raiders 200 years ago, if you give us 200 suits of power armour within 35 years we'll put you to the top of the waiting list") - in which case the suits provided would vary based on the preferences of the chapters involved.

MagosHereticus
09-11-2010, 16:35
The technology and knowledge to produce all marks of power armour is there, there is just little reason to do new suits of marks older then VI to VIII.

Mark IV has famously good performance, but is expansive, complicated to make, requires exotic materials to manufacture and requires spares not compatibile with other marks; in short, producing it is more trouble it's worth. Some chapters (Red Scorpions? ) may manufacture it because they have better access to materials, or just to show they can.

Mark III is a heavy duty super-resilent armour not intended for everyday duties. While it's relatively simple to produce, the Terminator armour does everything Mark III was designed for, only better. I suppose some chapters with limited access to Terminator suits may produce Mark IIIs and issue them to vanguard veterans to act as "heavy" assault units.

Mark II is another famously good performer on battlefield and not difficult to make, but notoriously hard to repair once damaged. This is the pattern the Mark IV, VI and VII were made to replace, and for good reason. Any Techmarine trying to produce them will soon find himself bogged in maintinance duties.

Mark V is simply not good enough to be produced, being cheap, dirty and underperforming stop-gap design. The only reason it was deployed is that Imperium was desparate for more suits. A chapter that somehow lost many suits of armour while retaining battle-brothers may be desperate enough to bulid these.

mars doesnt hand out blue prints willy nilly, its relationship with other forge worlds is pretty antagonistic at best when it comes to distributing information, so whilst many practical reasons exist not to make the older marks of armour or even if they know how to make them they may not have authorisation to do so, many forge worlds will be limited in what they can supply to allied chapters, it's just part of the insane politics within the imperium

new chapters will likely have to rely on these forgeworlds to arm and armour their first generation

Sir_Turalyon
10-11-2010, 10:06
... but once chapter estabilishes itself, it's supposed to rely on it's own techmarines and artificiers to produce and maintain armour. If anyone is to learn power armour construction on Mars it is techmarine students, and as they are given blueprints of Mark VI / VII / VII /t erminator / artificier armour anyway, and plasma weapons on top of that, there is little reason not to give them plans for obsolete armour models. The suits themselves may by prized relics if they are ten tousands years old, but technology itself is obsolete, improved upon long ago by Adeptus Mechnicus themselves, so there is little reason to guard or treasure it.

MagosHereticus
10-11-2010, 10:29
... but once chapter estabilishes itself, it's supposed to rely on it's own techmarines and artificiers to produce and maintain armour. If anyone is to learn power armour construction on Mars it is techmarine students, and as they are given blueprints of Mark VI / VII / VII /t erminator / artificier armour anyway, and plasma weapons on top of that, there is little reason not to give them plans for obsolete armour models. The suits themselves may by prized relics if they are ten tousands years old, but technology itself is obsolete, improved upon long ago by Adeptus Mechnicus themselves, so there is little reason to guard or treasure it.

hand making 1000+ suits is probably not a techmarines favourite thing to do, and even if older mks get relegated to being reserves they will still do the job if newer marks are in need of repair

and come to think of it, given the carnage of the heresy era, it is quite possible that there were many surplus suits ready to be handed out to replace older marks but that the war resulted in many thousands of suits whos potential owner got gibbed before ever having the chance to upgrade, meaning that the martians and their successors might have vast stores of suits from a forgotten era that can be handed out when called upon to provide astrates with supplies, i wonder if astrates on campaign can call upon nearby forgeworlds for support if they are a long way away from home

TheRedAngel
13-11-2010, 11:42
Let's say you have a successor chapter - they need to get their armour from somewhere, obviously.

Is this going to be primarily newer Mks of power armour, from Corvus to Errant (VI to VIII), or will this include a mix of earlier variants as well?
Looks like there is no consistent method: The Consecrators chapter seems to have been equipped with lots of the oldest servoarmour, weapons etc when founded from the Dark Angels, while the other successor chapters only got few older MKs of armour.

Ka Faraq Gatri
27-11-2010, 19:31
...and as they are given blueprints of Mark VI / VII / VII /t erminator / artificier armour...

This is pedantic, but there's no such thing as blueprints for "artificer armour", which is a general (in-game) term for standard pattern suits (of any mark) which have been modified/improved/adorned with archaeobling by individual artificers in order to commemorate acts of great valour or to display honours earned (eg the iron skull/iron halo/marksman's honour).

No two suits of artificer-worked armour will ever be identical.

Col. Tartleton
28-11-2010, 00:32
I like my fluff universe where marines have bat caves worth of cool stuff. I mean they've got 100 soldiers on a ship that could house 100,000 men and proper weapons. They've probably got all sorts of armory capability.

At the Fortress Monastery every marine should have a dozen suits of power armor. He might take a couple with him. The suits break down quicker then the marines... A chapter may have 1,000 suits of TDA but they'd be loath to deploy them because thats not useful.

But this is Evanverse and you can't stop here, it's bat country.

Lusall
28-11-2010, 17:54
Way I see it is that not all the older Mk suits are necessarily old themselves, just the design. Certain Forgeworlds/Chapter armouries may not have the skills/blueprints/resources etc to build the better ones. Or maybe they only have one tech-priest able to make the newer stuff, so there's a ratio...

Some Marines may just like the older, less complicated designs too...like me and my "archaic" 4 year old cell phone. I feel like a caveman sometimes while my friends all have Blackberries, iPhones, etc. I prefer the lack of complication.

Glad I'm not the only one who's not upgraded to an iPhone or something... :D

But that pretty much sums it up just right. It's a combination of what's available, what's most useful, and preference. In the end, most chapters will take power armor, no matter what mk it is.

Though, something like Mk.3 or Mk.2 would most likely be a prized possession indeed.


I like my fluff universe where marines have bat caves worth of cool stuff. I mean they've got 100 soldiers on a ship that could house 100,000 men and proper weapons. They've probably got all sorts of armory capability.

At the Fortress Monastery every marine should have a dozen suits of power armor. He might take a couple with him. The suits break down quicker then the marines... A chapter may have 1,000 suits of TDA but they'd be loath to deploy them because thats not useful.

But this is Evanverse and you can't stop here, it's bat country.

I like this universe! :D
It's almost like mine...but all of my Marines have Melta Guns, because a giant fusion reaction making gun is awesome.:cool:

Oh...and shadow fields... :shifty: