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Prokrustes
09-11-2010, 14:37
Well..after having read the bit in the DE codex where Urien meets the Tau, I started wondering how much longer it will take them to grow up. I mean they now had contact with Chaos, DE, Necrons, Tyranids, Space Marines, Rest of the Empire (except maybe GK and Sisters) and Orks (Did they meet CW Eldar?). So they finally met all the other protagonists, with most of them uninterested in the greater good and rather hostile.
So I wondered if (ever) or when they are going to lose their naivety?

SolkaTruesilver
09-11-2010, 14:41
Well..after having read the bit in the DE codex where Urien meets the Tau, I started wondering how much longer it will take them to grow up. I mean they now had contact with Chaos, DE, Necrons, Tyranids, Space Marines, Rest of the Empire (except maybe GK and Sisters) and Orks (Did they meet CW Eldar?). So they finally met all the other protagonists, with most of them uninterested in the greater good and rather hostile.
So I wondered if (ever) or when they are going to lose their naivety?

You just cited all the major hostile factions existing in the Galaxy.

But the Tau Confederacy has at least, if I count right, 6 "Client-Races", including human worlds. All in all, the Tau are getting more out of their so-called naivete by being nice and open with other species than they lose when they get caught with their pants down, like they did with the Necrons.

After all, the Tau who welcomed the Necrons as "savior" were doomed the moment these showed up. I don't see how trying to play nice with them made them any more dead than if they had shot first.

The Tau could gather multiple Xenos worlds under their rule, and even more human settlements, by keep playing nice and, as you call it, naive. They are going to lose bits on the way because of that attitude, it's more of an asset than a liability, methink.

Sephiroth
09-11-2010, 14:44
So I wondered if (ever) or when they are going to lose their naivety?

No. Its part of their 'thing'.

Latro_
09-11-2010, 14:54
No. Its part of their 'thing'.

+1 all the other races have had thousands of years to develop mistrust paranoia and bitterness.

loveless
09-11-2010, 15:50
Every time I think about the Tau, I think of the Resisty from that one episode of Invader Zim - a hodgepodge of incompetent aliens who can occasionally accomplish something impressive.

Obviously, the Tau are pretty advanced and capable, so it's not an entirely fair comparison. However, the Tau are the cause of many a Lovelessian Facepalm.

I'm hoping their next book has a listing of all their failed encounters with other races - a Tau Emissary visiting an Ork settlement would be all kinds of fun :p

Carlos
09-11-2010, 15:55
Do they need to lose their naivety? Part of what attracted me to the Tau was they weren't just another 'enslave/consume' race like every other Xenos (bar Eldar) but actually sought negotiations and political exchange with other races.

The Tau never feared Rakarth because they don't really have that superstition and fear that other races have. Mankind would have been disgusted by his spinal attachments and obvious black colouring but the Tau have no real concept of such a thing.

I'd even debate whether Tau actually feel fear in the same way humans and other races do. Self-preservation is an outmoded concept in Tau society, as laying down ones life for another Tau is surely a great honour and nothing to be feared.
Falling back and running from a foe isn't done out of cowardice as with humans, but out of battlefield logic that a stronger foe or broken plan needs a rethink.

spetswalshe
09-11-2010, 16:40
The Tau could gather multiple Xenos worlds under their rule, and even more human settlements, by keep playing nice and, as you call it, naive. They are going to lose bits on the way because of that attitude, it's more of an asset than a liability, methink.

Exactly. If the Tau 'grew up' and became just another superfacist single-species empire they wouldn't last a week; the Eldar have arguably superior technology (along with a host of other advantages) and they're not exactly on the up and up.

By maintaining their 'nice guy' image they're far more of a threat to the Imperium than just another bunch of genocidal aliens with fancy technology. If given a choice, a great deal of human worlds would probably defect to the Tau Empire without them ever having to fire a shot - which means not only are the Tau not weakened by a protracted war, but they're actually stronger than they were when they started, and the Imperium is just as weakened as if you'd shot up the planet. And when the Imperium tries to take the world back, they'll just be fighting disposable Gue'vesa of no real value. That's a far better strategy than anyone else has managed to come up with - even Chaos is riddled with infighting.

Prokrustes
09-11-2010, 16:43
To make my point more clear: By growing up I didnt mean they should become like the Empire. Just a little less of walking towards everybody and everyone with open arms and complete trust in their friendliness... Just a slightly bit more..uhmm..rational and less like a "Dodo".

SolkaTruesilver
09-11-2010, 17:28
To make my point more clear: By growing up I didnt mean they should become like the Empire. Just a little less of walking towards everybody and everyone with open arms and complete trust in their friendliness... Just a slightly bit more..uhmm..rational and less like a "Dodo".

They don't do that.

Seriously, both times they've been had badly was with the Dark Eldars and the Necrons. both times, this other specie just saved their asses by intervening in a critical battle.

I think their reaction to this third party in a battle, as they have no pre-knowledge of either, was perfectly understandable. I don't think anyone on this planet would start pointing gun at the guys who just saved your arses.

Edit: seriously, do we know how the Empire reacted the first time they met Necrons?

Stonerhino
09-11-2010, 18:32
078902.M41
---------------------------
A day of celebration on Ka'mais. The Necrons land on the colony world to be greeted in great ceremony by the honoured Ethereal Aun'taniel.

079902.M41
---------------------------
Aun'taniel is slain by the Necron invaders. The havest of Ka'mais begins.

~Tyranid codex page 21Oddly enough the celebration lasted for three in a half days before the Ethereal is killed. I wounder what was said.

FlashGordon
09-11-2010, 18:40
Oddly enough the celebration lasted for three in a half days before the Ethereal is killed. I wounder what was said.

*Bang* *Bang*? ;) They fought with the necrons for three days before they eventually managed to kill the ethereal

Col. Tartleton
09-11-2010, 19:08
Or they got along rather peaceably until someone important called the Necrontyr Lord "skeletor" and he got fed up and ripped out his spine.

loveless
09-11-2010, 19:19
The Necron Lord asked the Ethereal's Shield Drone out on a date. It didn't say yes. The rest is history.


Or the Tau simply held out long enough to survive for 3 days or so.

SolkaTruesilver
09-11-2010, 19:24
The Necron Lord asked the Ethereal's Shield Drone out on a date. It didn't say yes. The rest is history.


Or the Tau simply held out long enough to survive for 3 days or so.

A minor Tau colony that was already under Nid attack, who managed to resist for 3 days a Necron Purification expedition?

I'd say they weren't bad at all.

Shinzui
09-11-2010, 19:42
I'm not sure how the Tau are ment to 'grow up'. Unlike the people who play the game the Tau or indeed the races in 40k have not read the Rulebook and codexes so have little of no idea about the details of their opponents. The reactions of the other races are not a case of them not being Naive but a case that they've already had their lessons already over the 1000s of years before the Tau even existed.

The Tau are Naive, that's apart of their appeal. Even if they weren't they'd most likely of done the same thing with races they haven't meet as integrating other races into the greater good is one of their secondary objectives.

SgtTaters
09-11-2010, 20:30
So they finally met all the other protagonists, with most of them uninterested in the greater good and rather hostile.
So I wondered if (ever) or when they are going to lose their naivety?

that same codex has...

-Hive World hires Eldar mercenaries, contact with hive world lost, when IG arrive the entire planet is abandoned.

-Imperial world gets attacked by Dark Eldar, they think they're being attacked by demons. So badly whipped they are they begin worshipping the Haemonculi. IG have to destroy planet as populace madly fights to defend their grotesque masters.


So what the Tau did was not an especially naive thing and were in a desperate situation to begin with, and Imperial worlds have proven even more naive, either hiring them when they already know how dangerous they are, or hilariously worshiping them because they are simply that terrified.

The Tau learned their lesson. They learned a very brutal lesson, but now they know to be suspicious of the GUYS WITH FLAYED SKIN, TORTURE HANDS, AND SPINES POPPING OUT OF THEIR BACK lol



The Tau never feared Rakarth because they don't really have that superstition and fear that other races have. Mankind would have been disgusted by his spinal attachments and obvious black colouring but the Tau have no real concept of such a thing.

No, they did fear him and his warriors. But there was a strange alien nobility to them and they understood that this mysterious race was even more advanced than they were. The Tau are the moment were being eaten by space dinosaur Tyranids. They thought "weeelll, our best allies aare cannibals and space bugs... maybe these nightmare monster guys aren't so bad?". The Tau were also mighty impressed at the sight of hot n' sweaty, muscular shirtless wracks wrasslin' scary tyranids down.

FarseerMatt
09-11-2010, 20:59
Oddly enough the celebration lasted for three in a half days before the Ethereal is killed. I wounder what was said.

There are a thousand administrative segments in a year, not a hundred, so it was more like a third of a day.

Iracundus
09-11-2010, 21:02
The other thing is if one reads that story is the Tau can be seen as in breach of contract. The Dark Eldar render assistance but do not get paid. There was no explicit signed contract but from the Dark Eldar POV it can be an implied violation of reciprocity after fighting and dying for these blue aliens.

A what if question is what if the Tau had handed over the second batch of Tau? Would the Dark Eldar have then gone away or rendered assistance a 3rd time?

Azrael'sFury
09-11-2010, 21:13
seriously, do we know how the Empire reacted the first time they met Necrons?

My guess? "FOR THE EMPEROR! KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

SolkaTruesilver
09-11-2010, 21:21
My guess? "FOR THE EMPEROR! KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

Yhea. I get that. But did they treated it like it was just another Tuesday-Kill-Xenos, or they understood the kind of threat they faced?

mob16151
09-11-2010, 21:23
Yhea. I get that. But did they treated it like it was just another Tuesday-Kill-Xenos, or they understood the kind of threat they faced?


I think they went more Manic Monday on it than anything else. :D

spetswalshe
09-11-2010, 21:26
The Tau learned their lesson. They learned a very brutal lesson, but now they know to be suspicious of the GUYS WITH FLAYED SKIN, TORTURE HANDS, AND SPINES POPPING OUT OF THEIR BACK lol

I doubt they were wearing Tau skin, though. I mean to a wolf that's almost exactly what the Space Wolves look like, and they're best chums. I've made friends with a cow whilst wearing cow leather before.

Shamana
09-11-2010, 21:34
Only if said expedition didn't have someone from the AdMech on it. However, I consider it much more likely that Mankind's contact with the Necrons started exactly with an AdMech expedition... or whatever it was called back then. Seriously, I'd say an OX inquisitor might well be justified in paying more attention to the exploits of the tech-priests than to, say, the Eldar.

Mind you, there's a bit of a problem judging the Tau experience with other races as there are different factoids popping up all over the timeline of the later part of the 41st millenium. It is possible that the Tau learned quite a bit in those several centuries, and by 41.998 they already have a pretty good idea who's who in the galaxy. By the events of the Kronus conflict (in DoW: Dark Crusade), if we may consider them canon, they certainly have an idea of what they can expect from various other races.

Stonerhino
09-11-2010, 22:45
There are a thousand administrative segments in a year, not a hundred, so it was more like a third of a day.

There are 24 hours in a day.
There are 8,760 hours in a year.
There is 1,000 segments in an Imperial year.
Therefore 1 segment is equal to 8.76 hours.
The Ethereal was killed after 1 segment. 078902.M41 through 079902.M41
So there was only 8-9 hours.

I did not count the numbers in the date and took 0 to be the check digit. Even though looking back 0 would not even be the correct check digit.

Hellebore
09-11-2010, 22:51
They've been leaving the check digit off most of their dates. Whether they realise it or not I don't know. There should be seven digits before the period, but most 40k dates these days just have the year fraction and the year number.

Hellebore

Stonerhino
09-11-2010, 22:58
Ya, an oversite on my part. I did not even do the math. Just thought "Wow; 3+ days" while I was typing the quote.

You would think that the one providing the quote would at least get the dates right.

Hellebore
09-11-2010, 23:00
Still 8 hours is a pretty good showing from a position of "Surprise! Planet Rape!" to actual destruction. Those railguns come in handy.

Hellebore

MajorWesJanson
09-11-2010, 23:21
Still 8 hours is a pretty good showing from a position of "Surprise! Planet Rape!" to actual destruction. Those railguns come in handy.

Hellebore

Even super fancy living metal has problems with a simple chunk of normal metal accelerated to relativistic velocities :D

Necrons may play with physics, but aren't totally immune to them.

madd0ct0r
10-11-2010, 00:51
My guess? "FOR THE EMPEROR! KILL IT WITH FIRE!"

Since the first (recorded) Imperial encounter with Necrons was a Sister Training base being wiped out, that response is almost certainly correct.

On the other hand, there are many recorded instances of Inquistors or AdMech Explorators investigating and triggering Tombworlds.

TheLaughingGod
10-11-2010, 03:33
Still 8 hours is a pretty good showing from a position of "Surprise! Planet Rape!" to actual destruction. Those railguns come in handy.

Hellebore

I suspect it's more of a case of "Welcome friends!"
And some awkward moments with a Lord and Immortals as they walk around trying to communicate/impress the Necrons and 7 hours later the Lords Warriors are in position, the Lord gets tired of Tau babbling and they just kill the Ethereal right there.

IcedAnimals
10-11-2010, 06:52
Honestly I always liked the image of the ethereal walking toward a monolith with his arms open ready to embrace the necrons and is killed on the spot by a gauss beam while the rest of the tau instantly look on in horror.

SolkaTruesilver
10-11-2010, 12:32
Honestly I always liked the image of the ethereal walking toward a monolith with his arms open ready to embrace the necrons and is killed on the spot by a gauss beam while the rest of the tau instantly look on in horror.

The fact that many people likes to think of tha Tau that way (as wrong as it might be) is a big factor into why some people think the Tau are hopelessly naive. It's easy to just picture a caricature of their more positive attitude and outlook on the Verse.

They welcomed Necrons who just saved their ass. It's not like they gave them the keys of the city and stood down their armed forces.

eldargal
10-11-2010, 12:43
The Tau were not particularly naive in the Dark Eldar incident, they were desperate, they needed help and were offered help. They were disgusted by the wracks and grotesques but they were performing against the Tyranids so who were they to complain? The Kroot aren't exactly civilised either. It wasn't naivete it was necessity.
As to the Necron incident, the same thing applies. They had just been saved from a terrible foe by aliens they had never encountered before, and actions speak louder then words. Why should they have doubted the Necrons prior to the Necrons opening fire on them? They don't have the knowledge of other races we have, as has been pointed out.

This coming from someone who really dislikes Tau.:shifty:

Sephiroth
10-11-2010, 12:46
They welcomed Necrons who just saved their ass. It's not like they gave them the keys of the city and stood down their armed forces.

That said, its a bit silly for an Ethereal to meet with the Necron Lord (I'm assuming the Necrons were instantly hostile/aloof and didn't open some sort of dialogue to lead to it). We'd probably react similarly to alien visitors, however we wouldn't dispatch the President on the first boat to meet them (You'd, y'know, establish if they're peaceful or not).

Not knocking that bit of background, nor the story in the Dark Eldar's Codex; simply pointing out there is a difference between idealism and being blindly optimistic; "Okay these swarm-creatures obliterated the orbital at the system's edge, crippled the envoy-ship and devoured the diplomatic party...

Maybe we're having some kind of communication error with them?" :p ;)

MagosHereticus
10-11-2010, 13:09
Yhea. I get that. But did they treated it like it was just another Tuesday-Kill-Xenos, or they understood the kind of threat they faced?

pretty much the plot of the mummy with brendon fraiser, except everyone would have been wearing robes and speaking in raspy pretend latin

SolkaTruesilver
10-11-2010, 13:19
That said, its a bit silly for an Ethereal to meet with the Necron Lord (I'm assuming the Necrons were instantly hostile/aloof and didn't open some sort of dialogue to lead to it). We'd probably react similarly to alien visitors, however we wouldn't dispatch the President on the first boat to meet them (You'd, y'know, establish if they're peaceful or not).

But they didn't sent the President. They sent the local civilian commander, as it might be expected from someone of such position. Senior ennough to be important, but too junior to not risking it with First Contact duties.


Not knocking that bit of background, nor the story in the Dark Eldar's Codex; simply pointing out there is a difference between idealism and being blindly optimistic; "Okay these swarm-creatures obliterated the orbital at the system's edge, crippled the envoy-ship and devoured the diplomatic party...

Maybe we're having some kind of communication error with them?" :p ;)

You know, communication error is what caused the Bug Wars, from the 1st to the 3rd, until Ender solved all communication problems.

Permanently.

spetswalshe
10-11-2010, 17:37
That said, its a bit silly for an Ethereal to meet with the Necron Lord (I'm assuming the Necrons were instantly hostile/aloof and didn't open some sort of dialogue to lead to it). We'd probably react similarly to alien visitors, however we wouldn't dispatch the President on the first boat to meet them (You'd, y'know, establish if they're peaceful or not).

Well, they kept him alive for several hours. I can't imagine it took that long for negotiations to go sour - either they had a back-up plan or the Ethereal was obviously capable of handling himself.

Stonerhino
10-11-2010, 18:01
The harvest did not begin until the Ethereal was killed. At least that is what the timeline shows.

"Aun'taniel is slain by the Necron invaders. The havest of Ka'mais begins". The Necrons land and the harvest does not begin for several hours. To me points to some dialog going on.

Lord Damocles
10-11-2010, 18:23
That or the landing site is 'contained' by Tau forces, and it takes some time for the Necrons to advance beyond their beachhead/send in a second wave etc.

horizon
10-11-2010, 18:29
[Project Distant Darkness]

Stonerhino
10-11-2010, 18:39
That or the landing site is 'contained' by Tau forces, and it takes some time for the Necrons to advance beyond their beachhead/send in a second wave etc.You mean like dropping into low orbit and using all those portals that would be in a huge Necron Fleet.

Even some of their escorts have Portals (Teleport attack BFG) that can potentialy overrun a light cruiser.

Lord Damocles
10-11-2010, 18:47
We don't know what the fleet did after defeating the Tyranids, or what it was composed of, or how many ships there were initially (other than that they outnumbered the 'dozens' of Tyranid ships), or what level of casualties it sustained against the 'Nids.

For all we know, the fleet may have dispersed, with only a small force initially deployed to the surface of Ka'mais.

VoodooJanus
10-11-2010, 18:51
Yeah, the fact that an Ethereal went is bizarre. Usually water caste people deal with the day to day things like an invading force of robots. Seriously though- the Ethereals rarely show up, they're more leadership symbols than leaders per say.

I think the problem w/ the Dark Eldar was that they never sent Ethereals with the other castes. I have this weird feeling that the Haemi wanted to make some mind controlling grotesque/wrack. It's pure speculation of course. Mind you, I think that the Haemi also likes playing mind games with naive races.

Oh, and they DID try to bring in an Ork group into the Empire. It's in the codex (either 3rd or 4th edition one.) It wasn't described in detail, but it is mentioned that 'several attempts to induct ork worlds into the empire were unsuccessful.' Sounds amusing to me. I do hope they go into that in more detail.

Overall though, they've benefitted greatly by their open-armed attitude. They have at least 5(?) races that are at the very least allies, if not actually part of the empire. And, if the rumors about the new codex are true, that number will jump to at least 8. They might not be much in game, but they sure seem useful in fluff :D. Without knowing the scope of the enemy's empire and their typical behaviors, trying to open up negotiations is probably a reasonable approach. That being said, I think that it's more about keeping to the doctrine/message, and less about being stupid. They keep getting kicked, but sometimes they find a very useful ally.

Of course, none of those embarrassing incidents will happen again- they won't trust Dark Eldar, they won't trust loyal imperialist humans, or any of the others who pulled the wool over their eyes. I'm hoping that Tau move out of the role of pinata for the other races (along with the Avatar), and are given a chance to show off how awesome they can be. The scenes where Tau do well are always fun to read. Of course, they kind of deserve this 'bottom of the pile' attitude considering the fluff-armor they had through 3rd edition and into 4th.

Stonerhino
10-11-2010, 22:33
We don't know what the fleet did after defeating the Tyranids, or what it was composed of, or how many ships there were initially (other than that they outnumbered the 'dozens' of Tyranid ships), or what level of casualties it sustained against the 'Nids.

For all we know, the fleet may have dispersed, with only a small force initially deployed to the surface of Ka'mais.Necron Scythe Class Harvest Ship "Have been part of every Necron Fleet so far enountered"~Armada
Necron Jackel Class Raider "Has been present in every Necron fleet so far engaged by Imperial forces"~Armada

So even though this is not 100%. We can at least assume that these two ship where present in the Necron fleet. Both have the Portal Ability. Also it's highly unlikey that the Necron would send in only an escort class ship or two to harvest the colony.

"Portals are more precise than conventional teleporters and are able to flood enemy ships with a relentless host of Necron Warriors and swarms of Scarabs"~Armada. And function like teleporting terminators in game terms.

So picture the entire Deathwing teleporting into a Tau colony and imagine how long that Ethereal would last. It's even hard to imagine it taking 8+ hours before the Necrons over ran the colony.

Retribution
11-11-2010, 02:10
8 allied races?

Lord Damocles
11-11-2010, 08:23
So even though this is not 100%. We can at least assume that these two ship where present in the Necron fleet.
Although the Jackal entry also notes that, 'there have been two instances of such craft operating on their own'.



It's even hard to imagine it taking 8+ hours before the Necrons over ran the colony.
While I agree that we might not expect the Necrons to take so long about it in normal circumstances, the fact that we lack so much information (actual fleet composion/casualties/reason for initial landing on Ka'mais/what the fleet did after victory over the Tyranids etc.) on the Necron forces means that we can't draw any conclusions other than it took them a little while to kill the Ethereal/start the harvest.

Idaan
11-11-2010, 10:45
8 allied races?

There's six currently: Galg, Nicassar, Kroot, Demiurg, Vespid and humans. The Tarellians and Scythians, hell-bent on having their revenge against the Imperium, have often worked for them as mercenaries.

ForgottenLore
11-11-2010, 14:15
Galg? Don't think I have ever heard of them.

There are also the Moralian Death-Sworn and Hrenian Light Infantry mentioned in apocalypse. Though I swear I once found evidence that one of those was the name of an IG regiment. I can't find the reference for that anymore though, it is just a memory I have.

ashendant
11-11-2010, 14:54
There's six currently: Galg, Nicassar, Kroot, Demiurg, Vespid and humans. The Tarellians and Scythians, hell-bent on having their revenge against the Imperium, have often worked for them as mercenaries.

Galg, Tarellians and Scythians are just pointed as mercenaries, Nicassar were hidden by the Tau so those 5 are allied

Retribution
11-11-2010, 15:41
There's six currently: Galg, Nicassar, Kroot, Demiurg, Vespid and humans. The Tarellians and Scythians, hell-bent on having their revenge against the Imperium, have often worked for them as mercenaries.

Never heard of the Galg, Tarellians, or Scythians; is there any more information on them?

Archaon
11-11-2010, 16:03
I don't get how Tau can be called naive.

They are a new player on the galactic scene and they only lack in depth experience with other races.. they surely don't venture out into the void all wide eyed and with flowers in their hair. They send out heavily armed expedition forces but they do try the diplomatic approach first.

However you can only betray them once.. then you are on their list and further encounters may be answered by a Fire Caste detachment.

They are comparably small considering the other major players and probably wouldn't stand a crusade the size of the Sabbat Crusade if the Empire would ever decide it had enough but so far their approach is working well. They get a bloody nose from time to time but they learn very fast and what sets them apart from most other races they improve on a rate rarely seen in the rest of the galaxy (already surpassing the human empire in innovation and ingenuity).

spetswalshe
11-11-2010, 17:23
If I was writing the Necron/Tau Ethereal thing, I'd probably have the 'harvest begins' part being after organised resistance has ended; the colony has been cracked open, the armies killed or scattered and the Necrons have fought their way through whatever bunker the Ethereal got bundled into and finally killed him. Better than than imagining the Ethereal is standing there chatting for eight hours. Either that, or he was killed instantly and the fact that it's been written as the next time slot is just narrative convention.

If it was Orks, it would probably read; 'The Ethereal is killed, and the party begins in earnest.' They did a bit of partying before but now it's the entire agenda.


Never heard of the Galg, Tarellians, or Scythians; is there any more information on them?

Tarellian Dog-Soldiers (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tallerians), Scythians (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Scythians) and Galg (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Galg). The first have been around a while, I've read the name of the second a couple of times but I had no idea about the last one until just now. I think we can probably assume the Empire constitutes many more races in a very minor capacity; single-world empires, that kind of thing.

Prokrustes
11-11-2010, 17:40
Never heard of the Galg, Tarellians, or Scythians; is there any more information on them?

They all have entries on here: http://www.lexicanum.com/ .


I don't get how Tau can be called naive.

They are a new player on the galactic scene and they only lack in depth experience with other races.. they surely don't venture out into the void all wide eyed and with flowers in their hair. They send out heavily armed expedition forces but they do try the diplomatic approach first.

However you can only betray them once.. then you are on their list and further encounters may be answered by a Fire Caste detachment.



Well..amongst the reasons I did call them naive was the fact that most animals I know of (not going into depth if that is a scientifc proof for anything) tend to be cautious when meeting new stuff. Curious but cautious. The Tau seemed to be lacking this caution, much like a Dodo. Furthermore, expecting "aliens" to share your philosophy/values or even to understand them is uhmm...slightly naive from a human p.o.v . (And I didnt expect or primarily wanted to discuss the idea if they are naive or not...)
Therefore I was wondering, if after seeing a world getting harvested by Necrons (if there are any witnesses at all), fighting the Imperium and DE having turned some of their brethren into abominations (wracks,grotesques), etc. which they realized (?), if and how they would change their attitude or welcome protocols to other races. I mean being the quickest evolving/adapting race aside from the Tyranids one should expect some fast learning process going on. Thus growing up in the sense of losing your childhood trust and naivety to the outside world (which doesnt have to mean that you become a paranoid cynic).
And no, I dont want them to turn into a paranoid fascist empire. :mad: Rather into a happy loving empire like in "Brave New World" which they already seem to be :p
As a side note...I wonder how Tau generally handle prisoners?Large re-education camps and mass brain washing? Must be hell for a Dark Eldar :D

Drasanil
11-11-2010, 18:10
As a side note...I wonder how Tau generally handle prisoners?Large re-education camps and mass brain washing? Must be hell for a Dark Eldar :D

Honestly, I think the dark eldar would get off on their crude and second rate attempts to "rehabilitate" them. He probably feed off the misery of the others being "re-educated" play along for a bit, then go right back to doing what ever the hell he feels like once he has the Tau convinced he's "fixed" and released into the civilian population:D

SgtTaters
11-11-2010, 18:20
Dark Eldar hell is boredom, there's a brief mention that some of the worse punishment for them in Commoragh is being sentenced to work in a boring factory job. So work in a Tau assembly line would be hell for a DE.

It'd be hard to take one alive though, the fluff mentions a single soul drunk warrior can take on a whole squad of fire warriors by himself.

Drasanil
11-11-2010, 18:25
It'd be hard to take one alive though, the fluff mentions a single soul drunk warrior can take on a whole squad of fire warriors by himself.

That dosn't mean much, a grot with a kitchen knife could probably take half a squad of Fire Warriors in close combat.

Jonny_N
11-11-2010, 22:53
Sorry guys I may have missed this, but where is the fluff about the the Tau meeting the Necrons with smiles, before getting their rear ends smashed in with a warscythe? I would love to read it!

Drasanil
11-11-2010, 22:56
Sorry guys I may have missed this, but where is the fluff about the the Tau meeting the Necrons with smiles, before getting their rear ends smashed in with a warscythe? I would love to read it!

IIRC it's in the Tyranid Codex. Basicly: Tyranids attack Tau -> Necrons Attack Tyranids -> Tau think they made a new Friend -> Tau get pleasant surprise:)

Jonny_N
11-11-2010, 22:59
IIRC it's in the Tyranid Codex. Basicly: Tyranids attack Tau -> Necrons Attack Tyranids -> Tau think they made a new Friend -> Tau get pleasant surprise:)

cheers matey! Tau and Tyranids codices are the only 2 I don't own, not very keen on wither race, but I'll take a look at my local GW tomorrow :)

Stonerhino
11-11-2010, 23:38
Sorry guys I may have missed this, but where is the fluff about the the Tau meeting the Necrons with smiles, before getting their rear ends smashed in with a warscythe? I would love to read it!Your going to be disapointed then. It's like two or three lines long and I qouted the important parts concerning the Tau.

Balgora
11-11-2010, 23:47
IIRC it's in the Tyranid Codex. Basicly: Tyranids attack Tau -> Necrons Attack Tyranids -> Tau think they made a new Friend -> Tau get pleasant surprise:)

This is somehow being twisted into backwards 'dodo' logic, firstly they were under attack from the damn tyranids..it's an insane desperate situation to begin with.

Secondly tau have never been shown as lacking caution..they don't just push a speaker out infront of a horde of orks and expect him to sing them into submission.

People(you know who you are:chrome:) get it out of your heads that failing to make 'a new friend'=a lack of caution. There's a difference between being careless and being in a situation that no sane amount of caution will stop.

Drasanil
11-11-2010, 23:54
This is somehow being twisted into backwards 'dodo' logic, firstly they were under attack from the damn tyranids..it's an insane desperate situation to begin with.

Secondly tau have never been shown as lacking caution..they don't just push a speaker out infront of a horde of orks and expect him to sing them into submission.

People(you know who you are:chrome:) get it out of your heads that failing to make 'a new friend'=a lack of caution. There's a difference between being careless and being in a situation that no sane amount of caution will stop.

That's very true, but once you compare them to every other faction and just how paranoid and jaded (or omnicidal in certain cases) they are, the Tau are may as well be using dodo logic and sending in Water Caste Ork-whisperers given that it would yield the same results with all the major players.

Don't get me wrong, if the Tau were suddenly ported over to say the Star Trek universe they'd be seen as extra killy Borg sans the Metal Bitz unfortunately as far as 40k is concerned that still makes them a bunch of naive do-gooders.

Hellebore
12-11-2010, 00:04
Yes, all it does is show the insane levels of insanity used by everyone else...

Hellebore

Balgora
12-11-2010, 00:43
Yes, all it does is show the insane levels of insanity used by everyone else...

Hellebore

Who knows, maybe the Orks really did want to be the Tau's friends..just that being an orks friend amounts to almost the same as anything else that moves.
Ork negotiations:
"First we 'iz gonna kill it, 'den we gonna stab it, 'den we set it on fire n crump it, 'den we gonna kill it sumore, 'den we shake hands n sign da treaty"
BFFs <3

Shamana
12-11-2010, 08:34
Hey, orks consider that to be friendly behavior!

And for all the WTF-ness of the incident, to me it is no more than what the Blood Angels did on Gehenna when they cooperated with the same Necrons they were previously fighting against the Nids, and then let them go in peace. Apparently, space marines can do that.

Stonerhino
12-11-2010, 09:03
On the Necron Blood Angel thing. I don't think Dante or the Silent King had much choice.

Balgora
12-11-2010, 10:47
Hey, orks consider that to be friendly behavior!

And for all the WTF-ness of the incident, to me it is no more than what the Blood Angels did on Gehenna when they cooperated with the same Necrons they were previously fighting against the Nids, and then let them go in peace. Apparently, space marines can do that.

Space Marines are awesome, nothing is impossible, even super advanced killing aliens of hatred and unimaginable destruction, fear and respect them.

Tau on the other hands are that kid that wants to be fwweeennnddss.

Slightly more on-topic..i'm not sure how much choice the Tau involved in the Necron slaughter had..what with being under attack already, seems unfair to make any judgements on them because of it.

Retribution
12-11-2010, 11:45
That's very true, but once you compare them to every other faction and just how paranoid and jaded (or omnicidal in certain cases) they are, the Tau are may as well be using dodo logic and sending in Water Caste Ork-whisperers given that it would yield the same results with all the major players.

Give them...say...10,000 years and i'm sure they'll be pretty jaded as well