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_dandaman_
10-11-2010, 00:10
Hello all, had an interesting theoretical question about a slayer unit, the book says that any number of models in a slayer unit may be upgraded to dragon slayers, so my question is thus:

If I was running, say, 40 slayers with the front rank consiting of 10 dragon slayers, and I ran into another horde unit of, lets say, 40 black orcs, when the black orcs strike, they kill say 5 slayers. Now the front rank consists of the dragon slayers, if casualties are removed from the back, should I remove the troll slayers or the dragon slayers in the front rank.

Thanks;

Dan

Little Joe
10-11-2010, 00:19
The upgrade for a troll slayer is called giant slayer and counts as a unit champion, so you remove them from the first rank.
Dragon slayers are a hero type unit.

Grimskarr
10-11-2010, 00:29
1. May upgrade to Giant Slayers (not Dragon Slayers). I know you were referring to the champion option, so just a small point.

2. You would remove the Giant Slayers. Since the Black Orcs are only in BSB contact with champions and so they have by default declared that their attacks are being allocated against these champions (just as you would be able to allocate attacks against a champion in a more conventional unit).

Now it gets really interesting if the front rank has a couple of Troll Slayers in it. I would argue that if this was the case and the Orc player failed to allocate attacks then, yes, you would not remove any of the champions and just remove Troll Slayers from the rear rank.

DeathlessDraich
10-11-2010, 11:15
FAQ:
Q. How are attacks/hits/wounds allocated and models removed in a
unit of Trolls Slayers and Giant Slayers? (p33)A. Treat the Giant Slayers as champions for the purposes of
allocating close combat attacks and shooting hits. When
casualties are suffered, remove models of the appropriate type
from the back of the unit, and fill any resulting ‘gaps’ by
sliding units forwards or sideways so that the unit is in a legal
formation. Note that the Giant Slayers are champions, and so
can benefit from the ‘Look Out Sir’ rule.

T10
10-11-2010, 11:25
10 Dragon Slayers is only 500 points (25% of 2,000 points), so a full front rank in a horde formation is quite feasible. Of course, they would just have their Slayer Axes and no runic items at that cost.

-T10

DaemonReign
10-11-2010, 11:32
Hello all, had an interesting theoretical question about a slayer unit, the book says that any number of models in a slayer unit may be upgraded to dragon slayers, so my question is thus:

If I was running, say, 40 slayers with the front rank consiting of 10 dragon slayers, and I ran into another horde unit of, lets say, 40 black orcs, when the black orcs strike, they kill say 5 slayers. Now the front rank consists of the dragon slayers, if casualties are removed from the back, should I remove the troll slayers or the dragon slayers in the front rank.

Thanks;

Dan

Isn't Slayers <30 dudes per unit?

The guy in my group who plays Dwarves says so anyways.. He'll be very happy to be wrong about this so please do tell.. :)

T10
10-11-2010, 11:42
If I was running, say, 40 slayers with the front rank consiting of 10 dragon slayers, and I ran into another horde unit of, lets say, 40 black orcs, when the black orcs strike, they kill say 5 slayers. Now the front rank consists of the dragon slayers, if casualties are removed from the back, should I remove the troll slayers or the dragon slayers in the front rank.


Each Black Orc would need to distribute its attacks amongst those Dragon Slayer characters it (or the model(s) it is supporting) is in base contact with.

The same applies if you are dealing with a front rank of Giant Slayer champions or a mix of champions and characters. Wounds don't flow over to rank-and-file from champions or from characters.

The same applies if you are dealing with a mix of Troll Slayer rank-and-file or a mix of rank-and-file, champions and characters. Wounds from attacks allocated against rank-and-file models do overflow to other rank-and-file (and finally to champions).

If the first rank included a single rank-and-file model then any Black Orcs in base contact with that model (or the model(s) supporting them) can allocate attacks onto it. These attacks may cause any number of rank-and-file model to be slain.

-T10

T10
10-11-2010, 11:44
Isn't Slayers <30 dudes per unit?

The guy in my group who plays Dwarves says so anyways.. He'll be very happy to be wrong about this so please do tell.. :)

It's still 5-30 models.

-T10

DaemonReign
10-11-2010, 12:17
It's still 5-30 models.

-T10

Ok..

And so by getting 10 Dragon Slayers you get a unit a 40 by having 30 "actual Slayers" and 10 guys that count as "Heros"?

It's just I saw you speak of a unit of 40 Slayers and my initial thought was: Why is nobody telling him you can't have more than 30?

One learns something new everyday!

Little Joe
10-11-2010, 13:35
Can't think of every little exception. That is why we use the combined knowledge of warseer.

In my case I got distracted right away with the obvious mistake in the first sentence. And I check in later to see if amendments to my answer are needed for full satifaction.

Same answer with dragon slayers in a combined unit of 40. Base contact is needed in CC, only addition is that any attacks against heroes must be directed at specific heroes. So you might loose less slayers due to overkill, but the wounds still count.
But if you have at least 8 giant slayers, musician and satndard bearer, now it gets interresting. Since regular command models must be in the first rank before heroes can deployed there the black orcs can only strike either the rank and file where there is base contact with the musician and standard bearer. The other attacks must be allocated on the unit champions (giant slayers). The dragon slayers would thus gain step up and/or supporting attacks and remain safe a little longer.

So even my first answer was false for I excluded the command group. Dammit.:cries::cries::cries:

T10
10-11-2010, 14:15
The command group can be moved out of the first rank with the Make Way! rule (by replacing them with Dragon Slayers).

This Slayer horde is pretty impressive: Each Dragon Slayer can use their own choice of weapons: 3 attacks at S6 with great weapons, or 4 attacks at S4 with additional hand weapons. The rank-and-file can safely use great weapons for their supporting attacks, adding 3 attacks at S5 to each Dragon Slayer that is fighting.

And the cost would be "just" 830 points, plus whatever you want to spend on command group and runic weapons for your characters. Considering the all-or-nothing rules for Victory Points this unit is sure to annoy.

-T10