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cuda1179
10-11-2010, 19:34
If anyone still has access to it, I suggest you flip through the 3rd edition rule book. In it you will find a page with a picture of several alien species. These were all supposed to be miscelanious races that were not in the rules, however most of them are now playable.

Shown in the picture are: A Necron Warrior, A kroot, A Hrud, A clawed Fiend, and a floating jellyfish like creature.

With the new Dark Eldar Codex we now have ruled for the Clawed Fiend and the jellyfish. There are also rumors floating around that the Tau will have more allied species in their new book.

So, what do you think will be the new "background only race" that will recieve rules? There has been high demand for the Hrud. Possibly the Deimiurg?

Hendarion
10-11-2010, 19:38
Both are probably highly rated candidates. But I doubt we'll see a new race any time soon.

daboarder
10-11-2010, 19:41
that jellyfish thing is a tyranid spore mine.

Lord Damocles
10-11-2010, 19:41
The Necrons were already a playable race by the time the 3rd ed. Rulebook was released.

The 'jellyfish' may be an Enslaver. In which case it had had rules previously (as has since).

Shinzui
10-11-2010, 19:41
Maybe, but then again I always get concerned with this kind of talk as soon as we start expect background minor races to appear with rules that might deter them from adding then in the first pace which really hurts the background Xenos-wise. imo that's why for so long we haven't had Demiurg or Hrud specifically because people pestered some years ago about them getting rules.

That said my 2c is that the next Tau codex will get a Demiurg of some sort. Their mentioned countless times with interaction with the Tau that it makes sense if they were going to add an alien race. It also adds a aspect that the Tau lack in terms of typical dwarfish charactertistics.

Korraz
10-11-2010, 19:57
I could see Hrud or other creatures added to the Tau, but I somehow doubt that Demiurg see the tabletop. If they are indeed dwarflike, then they simply don't fit into the Tau-Army.
Rules for Human Auxiliaries would be cool, though.

cuda1179
10-11-2010, 21:15
The Necron did have rules before the 3rd editon rulebook. However, at the time the 3rd ed rulebook was made they did not. It would take some time to give them their Chapter Approved 3rd edition rules.

I agree that adding a token species to another list may in fact be doing them a disservice. As much as I hate the Vespids' rules, they do seem like they have potential. Making them a little more cost efficient would make me happy, although what I would really like to see is rules for another unit of them. Perhaps a queen Vespid? Imaging a vespid the size of a Winged Tyranid Warrior.

loveless
10-11-2010, 21:24
If they are indeed dwarflike, then they simply don't fit into the Tau-Army.
Rules for Human Auxiliaries would be cool, though.

I don't follow your logic here.

Dwarflike creatures don't belong in the racial hodge-podge that is the Tau Empire, but humans do?

----

As for other races - Hrud would be interesting, but last I knew they were still rather independent and it may be unlikely for them to join up with the Empire.

Meanwhile, I would be in support of seeing both Demiurg and Nicassar show up in some form - I don't know how on either one, but I've come to think I'd appreciate the mentality of the Tau army more if it mixed things up a bit better.

H.LaFever
10-11-2010, 22:20
Id like to see a 'fringers' codex, full of ideas about them that live just outside of the imperium.
cults, pirates, vagabonds, the tainted and rejected, rogues, adventurers, robots, etc. and of course it could be a place to drop in some xenos.
perfect if there isnt a fleshed out fluff for some figs,
just leave some questions to be answered in the follow up fringers2 codex.

Korraz
10-11-2010, 22:46
I don't follow your logic here.

Dwarflike creatures don't belong in the racial hodge-podge that is the Tau Empire, but humans do?



Into the Army. Dwarfs tend to be heavily armoured, slow and stubborn. Two of these are nothing that the Tau want. If they can't hold this position, then they will retreat and won't hold it at any cost. Okay, yeah, you could use them to hold this and that point. But it's not something that Tau do frequently. They could drive tanks, but then, wheres the difference? It would be Tau-Tanks and that's it.

Human Auxiliaries...are basic warriors, but different. Really. They wouldn't be all that different than Fire Warriors, but still. They would add a tiny bit of diversity to the (already diverse) Army and could be fun. They wouldn't have to produce miniatures (just release the sprue with the weapons as bitzpack), just slightly differently tweaked rules. That's it.
As for the place for the Auxiliaries...More meat. Cheap and good meat. The Tau are few and the Auxiliaries are already trained to be a human shield, so the pale guys fit great into the army for when you need to hold something at any cost (yeah, I know what I said up there) or for using them to protect the precious Fire Warriors.

loveless
10-11-2010, 23:24
Into the Army. Dwarfs tend to be heavily armoured, slow and stubborn. Two of these are nothing that the Tau want. If they can't hold this position, then they will retreat and won't hold it at any cost. Okay, yeah, you could use them to hold this and that point. But it's not something that Tau do frequently. They could drive tanks, but then, wheres the difference? It would be Tau-Tanks and that's it.

The Demiurg were the pioneers of Ion Technology from what I recall. As such, they'd probably be sporting Ion-style weapons - I'd seem them akin to Broadsides in some respect, wherein there isn't necessarily a lot of movement.

That said, new additions to codices often alter previous playstyles. Stormravens, Librarian Dreadnoughts, and Sanguinary Guard have altered potential playstyles for the Blood Angels. Tervigons, Trygons, and a slew of special characters have altered possibilities for the Tyranids. So on and so on.

Moreover, the thought that Tau simply retreat if they can't hold a point is a bit counteractive to an expanding Empire. They never fortify a location? They're just going to let the first enemy that pushes them off the hill have it until they can return with their friends (thus providing the enemy time to fortify a position).

I guess the point is that something sturdy (assuming the Demiurg are, in fact, sturdy - we've seen little more than their ships) could be an interesting addition to the Empire's options.


Human Auxiliaries...are basic warriors, but different. Really. They wouldn't be all that different than Fire Warriors, but still. They would add a tiny bit of diversity to the (already diverse) Army and could be fun. They wouldn't have to produce miniatures (just release the sprue with the weapons as bitzpack), just slightly differently tweaked rules. That's it.
As for the place for the Auxiliaries...More meat. Cheap and good meat. The Tau are few and the Auxiliaries are already trained to be a human shield, so the pale guys fit great into the army for when you need to hold something at any cost (yeah, I know what I said up there) or for using them to protect the precious Fire Warriors.

So...what, you want to be able to take a unit of Imperial Guard Conscripts or Penal Legion or something like that? Adding on Tau Weaponry is going to skyrocket the price of most Guard units - plus you're going to want to shoot through them, apparently, so they're little more than walking cover.

I guess I don't see what they'd add or what they'd have that would alter their statlines or cost from a Fire Warrior much - in which case, what's the point?

I'd say the chances of them showing up are less than that of alien allies - if they do show up, I get the feeling they'll be considerably different from the typical human unit in other armies.

Astraeos
11-11-2010, 00:04
What I'd like to see is a Kill Team expansion with rules for several races, but not exactly armies. As well as new scenarios, the nemesis stuff and everything else an expansion like this would have.

I'll try and explain, by Kill Team I'm referring to the previous version where a group infiltrate a position and try to get past the brutes (was it? I don't have that rulebook) and accomplish their mission.
This is where the other races will come in. I'd imagine each gets between 1- 3 entries for troop types and characters, but nowhere near enough for an army of course but enough to add some diversity to a Kill Team Mission.

So imagine it, an Inquisitor and his retinue trying to clear a space port of Umbra, Dark Eldar doing pest control of some Hrud that managed to get into Commoragh, Chaos Space Marines trying to sabotage a Demiurg construction facility or Orks just hunting anything for the hell of it!

This could also work in reverse, so maybe you could have a gung-ho group of Barghesi raiding an Iron Lords supply, Enslavers trying to gain control of some Influential members of the Imperial Guard command or Scythians trying to assassinate an Eldar Phoenix Lord!

This way, games Workshop could provide the fans of lesser races something to work and game with without having to commit to an entirely new army.

Cry of the Wind
11-11-2010, 00:33
I would love to see just a few models for some of these races released in a "Mercenaries" collector series. That would give Inq28 players some more stuff to use in games and allow those who want to have a Hurd or Barghesi model or two in their collection the chance to buy them. See which ones sell well and maybe 5 years down the road we have a new 40k army.

-Loki-
11-11-2010, 00:34
With how long it takes GW to do some codices, and their need to do one Imperial codex for every non-Imperial codex, I really don't want to see any new races. Besides, they already have basically every sci-fi race archetype already. Mercenary forces to add to other armies would be cool though.

GrogDaTyrant
11-11-2010, 00:43
With how long it takes GW to do some codices, and their need to do one Imperial codex for every non-Imperial codex, I really don't want to see any new races. Besides, they already have basically every sci-fi race archetype already. Mercenary forces to add to other armies would be cool though.

I believe it's more like they need to do one Loyalist Space Marine army for every non-Loyalist Space Marine army. Whether or not it's Imperial has no bearing on their 'Only Marines Shalt Have Variant Army Lists' mantra.

As far as mercs go... Orks, IG, and Tau pretty much cover that. IG works well enough to represent any non-Imperial human force (although Lost and the Damned would still be nice to see), Orks have the Blood Axes (even if they aren't truly represented in their codex), and Tau have Kroot. Although it would do to bring back the Kroot Mercs, or at least allow an (effective) all-Kroot list in the next codex.

ehlijen
11-11-2010, 00:49
Moreover, the thought that Tau simply retreat if they can't hold a point is a bit counteractive to an expanding Empire. They never fortify a location? They're just going to let the first enemy that pushes them off the hill have it until they can return with their friends (thus providing the enemy time to fortify a position).


It may not be an absolute truth, but yes, that is what the codex tells us about the Tau. When they fight, they fight to shatter armies, not to take ground. An army that is stuck in one place is by definition vulnerable to the Mont'ka.

Yes, they build fortifications and defence lines. But only to discourage attacks that wouldn't breach them. Those lines are not meant to be fought from, they're deterrent. If faced with an enemy too powerful to deterr thus, they commence a fighting retreat. If they run out of ground, they evacuate the planet.

If the enemy can push them off the hill, they'll give it up. But first, they're going to try and trip him every step of the way up.

A static gunline like the dwarves do in fantasy is not conductive to their method of warfare. At best, they'd be a bait for a particularly daring Kauyon commander (because they'd be unable to escape any problems).

The imperium had millenia to fortify their planets. The Tau did not. When you say fortification, they don't think impenetrable fortress. They think mildly comforting deathtrap.

Chem-Dog
11-11-2010, 00:58
40K "background Xenos races" that I'd like to see get a 40K outing.
Eldar Exodites:- Part of the triumvirate of cultures that is the Eldar race. Riding lizards and all that shennanigans.
Hrud:- Many seeding mentions since the turn of EdIII. Personally, I like the Idea of the Hrud being an army of Swarm bases.
Kroot:- So much scope for an expansion beyond their part in the Tau collective*. There's so much that could be done with these guys.
Genestealer "Cults":- Just one of the "Enemy Within" armies we need. I'd like to see how this particular idea gets the modern 40K spit 'n shine.
Barghesi (sp?):- Sounds fun. Hyperviolent fun.

In the interests of ballance.
Non Xenos races that should get a look in.
Adeptus Arbites:- Seriously, who doesn't like space judges.
Adeptus Mechanicus:- These guys are WAAAAAAAAAY overdue. They are yet to get a decent level of coverage in the 40K universe period despite their integral possition within/alongside the Imperium. Also an army that's got a bonafide reason to fight EVERYBODY in 40K.
Rogue Traders:- I'd like to think that these characters,who are something of a 40k cornerstone, would get a look in.


A few months ago, in WD, JJ said that the existing races would be covered before any new ones were added, I don't see all that many more codexes that need doing, Obviously Necrons are high on the list both they and the Grey Knights/Ordo Xenos are starting to get the rumours trickle, then what is there? A couple more SM books perhaps, the other Inquisition factions possibly/eventually, a redux for one or two of the older Codexes (looking at the Craftworld Eldar) and then where are we?
I think we could be seeing a new faction in 40K quite soon.

* I refuse to refer to the Tau's dominion as an Empire, it lacks a single figurehead that can be classified as an "Emperor".

EDIT+++++ I forgot to mention CSM's and their various itterations as potential for new books.

Azazyll
11-11-2010, 01:15
Empires are more defined by being a collection of disparate kingdoms than by having a figurehead, and in that sense the tau fit perfectly, as they unite a variety of groups.

There should definitely be more Kroot in the Tau codex - don't know about them being on their own. I don't think we're ever going to get a mercenary codex, as they tried that with fantasy and it has died a hard and final death.

GW used to do lots of books of variants that weren't marine. We had a codex of individual craftworlds, catachans, two collected volumes that had ork and such variants. They must not have been popular enough. GW sells what sells. Which is why everyone should go out and buy xenos if they want more xenos. The only way to vote is with your wallet.

I sincerely hope we do not get an exodite codex. We do not need wood elves in space. Roll them in with craftworlders - that's the cavalry coming in to save them anyway. We do not need and army of space dinosaurs, a unit or two will be fine.

Mechanicus is my first choice, 100%. I've wanted them since I read their entry in the second edition rulebook. And apparently Phil is talking about them, so that's good news. After that would have to be genestealer cults (also long missed), and finally the hrud.

MadDoc
11-11-2010, 01:28
Personally, I think its more likely that we'd see Tarellian Dog-soldiers for the Tau, than either Hrud or Demiurg.

The "Other Dangerous Aliens" pic in the 3rd Ed. Rulebook also has an unlabelled ("Unknown") pic of a Lacrymole head, a Chuffian Power-Maul and a crystalline Psy-Gore pistol, as much as I'd love to see any and/or all of those expanded on I can't see it happening.

Edit- I'd also like to see the Adeptus Mechanicus as a playable list.

Abaraxas
11-11-2010, 07:52
A 20 strong unit of electro priests has always sounded awesome (the black codex)

Id love to see Adeptus Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, Squats...

But to be honest instead of new races or factions being introduced Id prefer the ones we already have to be better supported/added to.

Hendarion
11-11-2010, 08:15
Adeptus Mechanicus would be a new faction, but not a new race. And honestly, no offence though, I do not believe we do need yet another Imperial Codex. There are so many other sub-sects (Ork Clans, Exodiths, Tau Enclaves, Everguard, ...) or totally untouched races to go for, but humans are just that: humans. We got enough of them already around.

Carlos
11-11-2010, 08:34
Maybe, but then again I always get concerned with this kind of talk as soon as we start expect background minor races to appear with rules that might deter them from adding then in the first pace which really hurts the background Xenos-wise. imo that's why for so long we haven't had Demiurg or Hrud specifically because people pestered some years ago about them getting rules.

That said my 2c is that the next Tau codex will get a Demiurg of some sort. Their mentioned countless times with interaction with the Tau that it makes sense if they were going to add an alien race. It also adds a aspect that the Tau lack in terms of typical dwarfish charactertistics.

The Demiurg will never happen because:

- They have no official mention in first party publications (Codex Tau, Apoc etc)

- Apoc already lists Hrenian light infantry and Morallian Deathsworn alongside Kroot and Vespids in the auxiliaries cadre. Nicassar are mentioned as a fleet addition.

- GW settled on the idea a long time ago that space dwarves are a stupid idea.

- Again, space dwarves are a crappy idea.

Hendarion
11-11-2010, 08:37
- GW settled on the idea a long time ago that space dwarves are a stupid idea.

Well, they didn't say that the archetype is bad, but that the design concept for them had been. Necrons are some kind of Undead-in-space, but still a very good concept of design. Squats though had been a bad concept. Funny for sure, but not fitting the 40k-universe. Demiurg can be a very cool design if made right. Not beard-wielding, beer-drinking bikers though.

McLucien18
11-11-2010, 08:48
I'd quite like to see a "Mercenaries" Expansion which basically would be crammed full of various units "for hire", and potentially a table of special scenarios like Spearhead had (but in an actual book). Dogs of War style, and then just list under their entries which races can take them.

Just my 2 cents.

Lucien

Shinzui
11-11-2010, 08:51
- They have no official mention in first party publications (Codex Tau, Apoc etc)

They mentioned in the Tyranid codex recently with the Tau. I don't know what first party publications are ment to mean but they are involved in the Tau space fleet with mentioning that several brotherhoods joined the empire.


- Apoc already lists Hrenian light infantry and Morallian Deathsworn alongside Kroot and Vespids in the auxiliaries cadre. Nicassar are mentioned as a fleet addition.

GW in 5th edition has mentioned lost of minor races. That's the great thing about it. Doesn't mean their more likely or less likely.


- GW settled on the idea a long time ago that space dwarves are a stupid idea.

That was Jervis and while he said the Squats were an unworkable concept to be salvaged from 2nd edition, Demiurg were a replacement for them as a Dwarf concept. If you use the search function in relations to squats you can probably find a threat quoting his exact words.


- Again, space dwarves are a crappy idea.

No more than Elves or Orks.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
11-11-2010, 09:53
Well, squats were just an imperial mutation anyway, just like ogryns and ratlings, so they really didn't need a separate codex, but would fit in nicely as an option in the IG :)

Korraz
11-11-2010, 10:17
So...what, you want to be able to take a unit of Imperial Guard Conscripts or Penal Legion or something like that? Adding on Tau Weaponry is going to skyrocket the price of most Guard units - plus you're going to want to shoot through them, apparently, so they're little more than walking cover.

I guess I don't see what they'd add or what they'd have that would alter their statlines or cost from a Fire Warrior much - in which case, what's the point?




The Fluff.



Squats are deader than dead. Dead and eaten.

Hedgehobbit
11-11-2010, 16:33
Squats are deader than dead. Dead and eaten.
Up until GW runs out of ideas. Adding Squats would be great way to sell more of those old boring Tau models that have been dusting up the shelves of countless gaming stores worldwide.