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ScytheSwathe
10-11-2010, 19:46
Hey, i dont really know much about vampires in 8th, but i may end up startign an army.
How does this look for a quick list, I want the vampire to be the main character, and i want him to be fighty, but otherwise how does this look as a list?

Vamp Lord- Red Fury, Eternal Hatred, Flayed Hauberk, Other tricksters shard, Sword of Bloodshed (joins Grave Guard)

Wight BSB- Drakhof banner, Great weapon (joins Grave Guard)

20 Ghouls

39 zombies- Banner Musician
40 Zombies- Banner Mus

23 Grave guard- Great weapons, Banner Mus

4 Fell Bats

7 Dire Wolves

5 Cairn Wraiths

Black coach

1998 points
Maybe a little too deathstarry? Not enough Magic? Useless units?
Let me know your thoughs

gero_nz
11-11-2010, 01:23
Hey mate

Like your lord, Like your BSB and I like the Black Coach.

The rest...

The Ghouls are too small.

The zombies are two large - waste of points as you can raise them, and they cannot have banners. (This gives your army a fortitude of 3 btw, which you will need to improve)

The GG are too small, especially as your putting ALL your characters in it. Any gun line would just laugh at you.... or anyone with magic as you have no magic defence at all.

Why do you have 5 wraith with no banshee? Personally I think there are far better units for that cost - try a Vargulf.... try a pair actually.

Bats and Wolves are fine.


In my opinion things that would benefit you include -

Less zombies
More ghoulds
More GG
More banners
More magic defence

Another point of consideration - Drop eternal hatred on the lord, and great weapons on GG and focus on spaming Dance on them - giving the entire unit including characters rerolling to hit and ASF (which would be cancelled if you had GW's). Consider buying a Necro to do this - 55 points for a throw away wizard that can buy spells is awesome in 8th.

Cheers

D'Haran
11-11-2010, 14:54
If you want to go with a large unit of GG at 2k you should drop one of your rare choices to pick up some magic, you can pick up lore of shadows and try sniping enemy heroes, or just to maximize invocation would be great.

I've found Ghouls to be far more effective than other types of core in this edition, but fielding alot of them can be a problem as it cuts down on the number of units you have. Skullies are a decent middle ground for 2k, you could take a larger unit of Ghouls and some skullies.

Important thing with skullies is you can take banners, and you have a 1 in 6 chance of that mattering. Also with some invocation you will never be kicked out of the watchtower in a straight up battle for it as you can just raise those troops back.

You've just spent too many points on not heros and VC should be maxing out the hero/Lord point allotment, one of the few armies where heroes are worth it to dump point into as they buff and maintain your entire army.

ROCKY
11-11-2010, 15:58
hey I like your idea, but as a gamer who is somewhat competitive (well ok i am sue me hehehehe) I would not have my vampire lord tooled up to actually lead an attack. remember if your vampire dies, your army will begin to crumble and wither away. another reason I am bringing this up is that in a VC/TK army you need to keep your units pumped and running, and vampires are VERY potent if tooled up right in magic. I personally would suggest take two units of 30-35 ghouls. as for your vampire give him the flayed hauberk, crown of the damned, dispel scroll, and the sword of might. and give him Master of the black arts, and the know all spells of a certain lore ability. thus your lord now has 4S6 attacks, has a T5, 2+and 4++ as well as a scroll to block an opponents spell. he now also has +2power dice and knows all of the spells of a lore that he chooses.

the bsb is fine. i would suggest adding a necromancer and teach him vanhels.

black coach is fine, wraiths are meh and i am not a fan of fellbats (but thats a preference). i would suggest bumping up the graveguard to 30 or so. and if you have point left (assuming u removed the wraiths and bats) take a vargulf. hope this helps :)

Eternus
12-11-2010, 16:18
Hey mate

The zombies are two large - waste of points as you can raise them, and they cannot have banners.

Sorry dude, this is wrong - a zombie standard bearer upgrade costs 8 points, unless I slept through the release of the new Army Book.

As for the list Scytheswathe, I do kinda like it, and your Lord is smilar to what I use. Unlike ROCKY, I like my Vampire Lord to get up close and personal - a general with a stat line like that is too powerful in combat and too expensive to just use as a spell caster in my opinion. You do however have to pick your fights - use the Vampire Lord's killing power where it will make a difference without putting him at too great a risk. It is correct that you will suffer if you lose your general, so be careful.

Regarding the rest of the army, I do have to agree with some of the points that have been made. You do not have enough front line fighting units. Zombies are not combat units, they are there just to provide lots of ranks and sticky bodies for enemy blades to get stuck in, they will not win many combats without quite a bit of help.

The characters are where the power is at in a VC army, and where most of your punch comes from, though there is a lot to be said for a Varghulf, Black Knights and Blood Knights as well - also, a Banshee is invaluable vs low Ld enemy, especially heavily armoured elite units and cavalry like Chaos Knights and Empire Knights etc, which otherwise take some killing. Hero level Necromancers tailored to a specific task are what will keep the army moving and Vampires will give your units that much needed punch, especially if you can make the enemy more likely to fail Fear tests with magic items and powers that affect Ld - check out the 'Aura of Dark Majesty' power and imagine combining that with the Screaming Banner.

Try a few things out on the battlefield and see what works and what units need tweaking or dropping, and check out other peoples lists here as well.

Lastly, ignore people who say 'swap everything in the army for Ghouls', unless you want to use them. I don't own a single Ghoul, and though I see the merit of Toughness 4 and 2 poisoned attacks, they have no armour, no weapon options and Ghouls can't take banners. You need to decide what fits your preferences and works on the table and go with that.

Good luck.

ScytheSwathe
12-11-2010, 18:06
Thanks guys for all your comments. Im beginning to see some recurring points to think about.

I understand that ill need more characters primarily, mostly for the magic side of things, and i dont think the grave guard are right, and will need a major rethink. Im going to have to make the points for a banshee too by the looks of things, i quite like the idea of the wraiths even if they are a bit 'meh'

The main sticker looks to be 500 points of core...
Ghouls are plainly the most 'points efficient' as far as i can see, but there is a role for zombies too. Namely tarpitting, because any help they provide with ranks is likely going to be undone by their 'meltiness' in combat.
So waht are poeples thoughts on filling out the core? Skellies for the armour? Ghouls for poison? Zombies not as bad as people are making out?

Thanks again

Eternus
12-11-2010, 18:26
My feeling about Zombies is this - if you are going to use them, then do what I plan on doing: Take them in a big unit, with standard and musician for extra bonus in combat, make them 5 wide to present as few models in base contact as possible for the enemy to strike down, but make them way deeper than the enemy to prevent them being Steadfast - that's the name of the game for VC's in 8th - deny Steadfast to the enemy. Zombies are the cheapest way to do this.

D'Haran
12-11-2010, 20:52
Ghouls are the best for offense, however higher cost and no standard can hurt.

Skullies are a good all round unit, especially with parry ward saves.

Zombies act as a tarpit if you can keep enough bodies in the unit, you can do this just as easily with a slightly more expensive unit of skullies though so I sometimes struggle to justify buying these guys. Casting up a unit of these guys behind the enemy unit you're fighting and then using dance to get them into combat is an old favorite trick.

Invocation makes any of these units twice as annoying.

RealMikeBob
12-11-2010, 22:48
So waht are poeples thoughts on filling out the core? Skellies for the armour? Ghouls for poison? Zombies not as bad as people are making out?

No, zombies truely are awful. They die in such huge numbers that they don't even make effective tar pits any more. I find this most upsetting as I have about 120 of them. Skellies are useful due to their flags, but my personal preference is ghouls. Particularly a large unit with the regen banner under the effects of vanhels. Rerolling poison is awesome.