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haletotheking986
12-11-2010, 08:43
soryy, i know this is yet another "help me pick my army thread" but I need some help here. looking too play an army thats competitive as well as challenging. I've been outta the loop for almost 8 years now, and i never got into the game itelf, spent hours on end glueing and painting. I am only now thinking of playing the game. went too a con called carnage, and they hosted a Wh40k tourney there; i played my freinds daemon hunters army. I facerolled twice with the termi command squad. essentially, anything but space marines are up for grabs. saw way too many GW posterboys there XD.



also, very nice models are a plus!

Prokrustes
12-11-2010, 08:56
Hmmm..
competitive, challenging to play and nice models. Sounds like you should play Dark Eldar.
If you dont like them, maybe Guard but Im not sure how challenging they are to play if you arent going out of your way to build a very special list. If you dont like either, you might consider Tyranids (nice models), challenging to play but the competitiveness of them is a moot point on the internet.
Hope that helps.

Jonny_N
12-11-2010, 09:26
Orks can be great fun to play :)

haletotheking986
12-11-2010, 09:52
I did think of eldar, and dark eldar. tyranids are a maybe, as i dont care for swarm tactics. i loathe greenskins tho XD. are eldar any good nowadays? and if so, comparable too DE?

oh and another thing (i know theres a trade formu here, but.....) anyone know of a good place too sell figs? i got 2 imperial baneblades (primed) and some sentinels i wanna get rid of too help my army fund. Iz wantz cool miniz.

Brucopeloso
12-11-2010, 10:36
Ok you seem to have narrowed it down to Eldar, Dark Eldar and maybe nids: my advice is: you'll spend a lot of time modelling and painting them so choose based on what models you like best. Both Eldar and DE are fragile and have a steep learning curve but can be extremely comepetitive if played right.

Godzooky
12-11-2010, 10:41
oh and another thing (i know theres a trade formu here, but.....) anyone know of a good place too sell figs? i got 2 imperial baneblades (primed) and some sentinels i wanna get rid of too help my army fund. Iz wantz cool miniz.

There is this interesting little cottage industry auction website you could maybe ply your unwanted wares on. What's it called?

eBaw... ELbay... ENu...

eBay! That's it. eBay... ;)

haletotheking986
13-11-2010, 02:31
unwarranted sarcasm aside, i already thought of that. it might be the best option. on the army note, can eldar or DE be good against swarm tactics? i want a pirmarily melee army if i can manage it.

zantis
13-11-2010, 03:55
Dark eldar wych or wrack based army. Haemonculi with webway portals are a necessity. raiders can do just as well, but can blow up very easily.
vs swarms: venoms with 2 splinter cannons (12 BS4 poisoned 4+ shots per turn)

Charistoph
13-11-2010, 04:58
Primarily melee army and good at it, while not being Spaz Marine...

Both Eldar are skilled and have some nasty toys (Dark Eldar are nastier, but that's because they have a brand-new codex) to augment their relatively weak physiques.

Tyranids are also a very good choice, and if you have Warrior Troops, it's not so Hordish.

Alternatively, Chaos Marines, but they're spikey Spazes, so...

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 07:20
Alternatively, Chaos Marines, but they're spikey Spazes, so...

rofl, true. I loathe space marines on tabletop (like in the DOW pc game tho) im thinking it will most likely be DE, however what about eldar? can one make a primarily melee army (1500) thats effective? I love howling banshees, and i was thinking maybe 3 squads pathfinders, as my main troop choice. I figure they could ping at what ever the banshees are gonna assault from a distance. what worries me however is i dont think eldar have much in the way of troops that can go toe too toe with terminators, (grey knight termies) or say, a carnifex? I love the idea of a a melee eldar (OR de) army, but is it viable in competitive play?

sammysparks1979
14-11-2010, 07:36
r what worries me however is i dont think eldar have much in the way of troops that can go toe too toe with terminators, (grey knight termies) or say, a carnifex?
hey buddy howling banshees are the bomb against terminators and anyone in power armour, a 10 woman squad on the charge is 30+ power weapon attacks striking 1st all you need is 4, then 5's and there gone, and dark reapers kill flex's quite good as well.
eldar still have a lot to offer its just the good stuff is metal and costs the earth for a descent amount of options.

Hendarion
14-11-2010, 07:40
Eldar... well, 3 troops of Pathfinders cost a lot of points and grant a lot of AP1 and AP2 wounds, which nearly always nowadays are wasted by a cover save. Pinning isn't an easy deal because of upgrade-chars with high leadership. Also they output only a low number of shots which is a big problem if you face lots of enemies or hordes or as you said "swarm tactics". Avengers are probably more the anti-swarm-guys instead.
Banshees tend a bit to not be as great as they are imagined. They output armour-ignoring hits, but only have S3, which means 5+ to wound on T4 units... that's a big cut. They are basically wasted points against swarms. Scorpions are the way to cut down hordes: lots of hits on S4 and nice armour. Nightspinners do a great job against masses too, since they mostly ignore cover, have rending, may re-roll to hit (I've never missed a single Nightspinner shot so far) and give that really nasty special rule. Storm-Guardians might be helpful too, as they cost half of a Scorpion, but are seriously less powerful and fragile.
Terminators? Well, I've cut down 3 of them at my last game with my Avatar although they had launched the attach (had been in combat already with a Dreadnought). At the end the Dread was dead, the Termis had been dead, Avatar alive. Olé. Typical way to get Terminators down though are Star Cannons (2 shots, S6, AP2) or lots of Scatter Lasers (4 shots S6). Especially against Assault Terminators with that ugly invul save, you should consider to shoot them with Scatter Lasers or you'll have a hard time in close combat.
A carnifex... dunno, I've never faced one. But Mind War, Avatar or Pathfinders might be a good idea.
Wraithlords are also nearly always a good idea, since they have 3 wounds on T8 (ignore S4 weapons, olé) and 3+ armour save, plus the neat maximum strength and monstrous creature role. A really bad boy.
Competitive... well, depends always on the army you are going to face. A melee competitive list vs. everything else is questionable, except you want to go the (ugly) way of Jetcouncils which hit fast, hard and are not that easy to cut down, but cost a huge bunch of points and money (and time to build as there are no models for that).

Chem-Dog
14-11-2010, 08:08
unwarranted sarcasm aside, i already thought of that. it might be the best option. on the army note, can eldar or DE be good against swarm tactics? i want a pirmarily melee army if i can manage it.

That's not unwarranted Sarcasm, that's Godzooky, visit these boards for any length of time and you'll welcome his cheery comments like a well worn and comfy, if slightly sticky, pair of slippers (for the soul).


Although by this stage in the thread it seems you're pretty sold on the pointy eared types, it's worth a mention that Tyranids really don't have to be the zerg swarm that they are famed for, they weigh in with a silly impressive amout of uber big monsters and their mid-sized range has benefitted massively in the latest Codex.


++++EDIT

Am I the only one who's slightly freaked out by Hendarion answering the question BEFORE Hale asked it?!

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 08:33
Alternatively, Chaos Marines, but they're spikey Spazes, so...

rofl, true. I loathe space marines on tabletop (like in the DOW pc game tho) im thinking it will most likely be DE, however what about eldar? can one make a primarily melee army (1500) thats effective? I love howling banshees, and i was thinking maybe 3 squads pathfinders, as my main troop choice. I figure they could ping at what ever the banshees are gonna assault from a distance. what worries me however is i dont think eldar have much in the way of troops that can go toe too toe with terminators, (grey knight termies) or say, a carnifex? I love the idea of a a melee eldar (OR de) army, but is it viable in competitive play?

anyway, i was considering eldrad with a 9 man warlock retinue, expensisve point wise, but that aoe ability with 6 of those, it sees it would destroy hordes as well. I figure it might be cool. I used my friends Daemon hunters army at a tourney with stern and a 9 man grey knight termie squad, which wrecked everything.

also for DE is it possible for a wychs too be main troops effectively? im thinking of having lelith with a wyches for assault as a possibility. so far as far as armies go, its between ELdar and there crazy cousins.

Chem-Dog
14-11-2010, 08:49
oops, open tabs >>

Doesn't explain Hendarion managing to Ninja your question with an answer :wtf::eyebrows::confused:


anyway, i was considering eldrad with a 9 man warlock retinue, expensisve point wise, but that aoe ability with 6 of those, it sees it would destroy hordes as well. I figure it might be cool. I used my friends Daemon hunters army at a tourney with stern and a 9 man grey knight termie squad, which wrecked everything.

I'm not sure you can compare Eldrad+Warlocks with Stern+GKT's.
I'm not sure if the Bang/Buck ratio is good enough to make it a serious choice but it sure is scary (until a Tyranid player gets the Swarmlord on ya, or a DH player whips out a couple of Incinerators and/or a Callidus assassin).

As for Wyches. Pretty fatal in combat, vulnerable as hell until you get there.

Might be worth you picking up a squad of harlequins, as they can be fielded in either force just as easily.

Shamana
14-11-2010, 09:03
I think a friend of mine fielded Eldrad and a foot seer council in a foot eldar vs tyrannid army, and they performed quite well. As long as they aren't bogged down by a unit with, say, high armor and FNP, or whittled down by an avalanche of shots to get through that T3 and rerollable 4++ save, they will probably be worth their points.

I guess for a wych list the big problem would be getting to combat. Once there you should do fairly well against most enemies of comparable points (and higher, in most cases), especially when you get your first pain token for FNP. Webway portals would be an interesting way to play too - although it takes quite some nerve to bring footslogging wyches to the table, and you don't have the craftworld luxury of manipulating reserve rolls.

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 09:30
wyches in raiders? might be a cool idea if it can be done. I REALLY wanna use lelith, cuz on paper she seems badass. thanks for all the replies, its helping alot :)

Shamana
14-11-2010, 09:42
Well, conventional wisdom is that you should (always) use wyches in raiders. It's a fast, open-topped transport (so you can assault from it), and wyches are CC specialists that have almost no defense against shooting. Every inch that they can save by employing a transport is worth it. As for miss "I'm so badass I don't need armor - or shoes" Hesperax, I like her a lot, but I'm a bit sceptic of her dropping the agonizer and shadowfield she had for a pair of regular power weapons. S3 only takes you so far - you really need her and her homegirls (I expect you are running her in a group of wyches/bloodbrides, not solo) to pick up two pain tokens for furious charge.

BTW, I don't have the DE codex, but I assume that you can assault out of a raider that has used enhanced aethersails. Is that right?

Hendarion
14-11-2010, 09:50
Am I the only one who's slightly freaked out by Hendarion answering the question BEFORE Hale asked it?!
Da uber skillz of da Farseer! :p

@Shamana:
Enhanced Aethersails don't affect charging at all iirc.

Zweischneid
14-11-2010, 09:55
BTW, I don't have the DE codex, but I assume that you can assault out of a raider that has used enhanced aethersails. Is that right?

No. Units can neither disembark nor shoot from a raider after using aethersails. No disembark, no assault.

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 10:42
also, would fielding 2 squads of harliquins and 1 squad of incubi work?

Shamana
14-11-2010, 10:48
Possibly. It can be a bit expensive, though - I might be tempted to try out the bloodbrides and the trueborn. Bloodbrides, in particular, seem like a great unit to plop Lilly in - not that she can't hang out with harleys or incubi, mind you, I just find bloodbrides more appropriate thematically.

So, I guess you are mostly interested in the DE :) ?

t-tauri
14-11-2010, 13:28
A number of posts removed. Please bear in mind the posting guidelines.

t-tauri

The Warseer Inquisition

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 18:10
ya its either DE or eldar, i might take DE cuz the new 5e codex tho..... it could be years before GW decides "hey, everyone else got a codex, why not eldar?. wait "could be"? no i should say it will be years.

Charistoph
14-11-2010, 19:25
Eldar are one of the iconic armies of 40K, so they will see a new codex (though, when and before what is anyone's guess), but they were in the last run of codecies to be released before 5th Edition, even if there were a few that were released afterwards.

Right now there are 2 Space Marine codecies, 1 more Imperial codex, and 2 Xenos codecies that were released before the Eldar's latest codex. If they don't release 6th Edition too soon, it doesn't have to be that long before it comes out (even though it probably will considering how they operate).

haletotheking986
14-11-2010, 23:15
ah whatever i can use harlis with DE... DE it is then. thanks for the help everyone!