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Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 21:06
i just wrote this up, it is based on anumerical advantage and 2 big gribblies :evilgrin:

any advice would be greatly appreciated

Luther Harkon; 260
syreen; 90
syreen; 90
syreen; 90

20 zombies: standard, musician; 135
20 zombies: standard, musician; 135
20 zombies: standard, musician; 135
20 zombies: standard, musician; 135

6 scurvy dogs; 60
6 scurvy dogs; 60

bloated corpse; 30
bloated corpse; 30
bloated corpse; 30

carronade; 70
carronade; 70

2 animated hulks; 80

10 deck gunners; 100

rotting leviathan; 200
rotting leviathan; 200

total; 2,000

despite the temptation to field queen bess, i decided against for some big gribblies (2 rotting leviathans and 2 dead ogres) and lack of any model to base a wopping cannon on ;) (nothing to do with my complete inability to guess range)

i am planning on using the mordheim witch hunter dogs as well as the zombie version for my scurvy dogs, as well as the mordheim zombies as they would brake up unit coherency

still undecided on haarkon himself, but hes not going to look like the one in the WD :D

the syreens i am also undecided, i may use the conversions in WD for the deck gunners and use trimmed down cannons for my carronade, maybe being dragged by some zombies/ghouls?

Bruen
28-05-2005, 22:32
I'm thinking of doing this army and I was wondering why you choose Syreens over Fleet Captains?

I'm a fantasy newbie so please excuse me if its obvious.

Personaly I am not so keen on the deck gunners due to the black powder rules, but I rather fancy some deck droppers in their place. Its hard for me to judge though because my Fantasy rulebook hasn't arrived yet :P

Slann gold looks useful to me, otherwise I think I'm going to fear the magic phase.

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 22:59
hehe, i'm a fantasy n00b as well, i just don't like the deckdropper idea and think that theres enough combat potential in the army already and the banshee yell is awesome, but i do not know what doom and darkness does :angel:

Bruen
28-05-2005, 23:11
I was thinking of modelling my army around ships crews, with one lord/hero and a mob of zombies as ships captain and crew. Captains would probably have slann gold and maybe the odd other irem but no special weapons.

I don't yet know how magic banners work but assuming that standard bearers take them then I fancy ships colours for each unit; both for fluff and game reasons.

Hulks and leviathans don't really fit with my theme and I don't fancy my chances with black power so I was going to have some bloated corpses, scurvy dogs, 3 carronades and either rats or deck droppers.

I like the idea of rats better but I fancy deck droppers for going after enemy war machines.

No idea how well my list would work though.

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 23:13
fair doos, i included the leviathans because i needed an excuse to buy the new 'fex

i may drop the animated hulks for some deck droppers, i'm not sure at the moment

taer
29-05-2005, 03:12
Leviathans are awesome (unit strength 5 gribblies that aren't large targets!).

Zombies with guns are trash, especially deck gunners. They are special, and when the misfire they hit themselves with strength 6, and well, kill themselves. I blew up most of my unit in one round, and only caused two wounds on my enemy the entire game. And they cost me 10 points a pop.

Now, Zombies with dual pistols rock in CC (for zombies that is), but you can't have as many of them in a unit (not a problem for rabid bunny, since all his units are 20 strong anyway)

Syreens are boss. The doom and darkness thing lowers the enemies ld. by 3, and since they can't be dispelled according to the syreen's special rules, that is pretty nasty.

Oh, and nothing in this army is good in cc versus Ogre armies I noticed. Stupid brain dead thingies

Adlan
29-05-2005, 08:44
I'd consolodate the zombis into units of 40, just to be sure of outnumbering (i hate that rule, in conflict i managed to get my saurus chased down and slaughterd every game)

Frankly
29-05-2005, 14:15
I'd consolodate the zombis into units of 40, just to be sure of outnumbering (i hate that rule, in conflict i managed to get my saurus chased down and slaughterd every game)

By a unit of 40 zombies? How did they win combat?

Bruen
29-05-2005, 19:29
What do you Fantasy experts think of bloated corpses and deck droppers?

Xavier
29-05-2005, 20:11
Im planning on using 2 units of 3 deck droppers for killing war machines and restriciting march moves.. exactly the same as I use fell bats, eagles, harpies, terradons.. any other flying unit for..

Bloated corpses are just to funny to resist, plan on taking 3 of them, and walk them up next to the zombies and charge at the same time, then at least somthing will die when they do.

My working list for 2k is somthing like

Harkon

2 Fleet captains, one with moonshine and the wharf rats and the other with slaan gold

a syreen

2 units of 20 zombies

3 units of 20 zombies with the brace of pistols 2 str 4 armour piercing attacks each :evilgrin:

2 units of 3 deck droppers

4 units of 5 scurvy dogs

2 carronades

then either a leviathan or drop a carronade and take the queen bess.. not sure

The Pale Lady
29-05-2005, 20:21
Thats illegal mate sorry, the zombie unit size for the ones with braces of pistols is max 20 and urs are 30...

Rabid Bunny 666
29-05-2005, 21:15
What do you Fantasy experts think of bloated corpses and deck droppers?


not an expert, but methinks march inhibitors or speedbumps :evilgrin:

deck droppers are cool, but i don't like the concept behind them

Izram
30-05-2005, 15:41
The deck droppers are just that, march blockers. They slow the enmy so you get extra time to shoot them.
I dont think you need 3 syrens. They dont actually kill anything, they just make there break tests and fear tests harder, and they wont take many break tests if they arnt losing combat. Plus the enemy needs to fail a Ld test to suffer from them, so it only makes bad Ld troops worse. Things you need it against, ld10 and lizardmen, wont fail the initial test most of the time anyways.
I would consolidate the units of zombies, put a deck capitan in each. I love the deck capitans for the magic items they get. Very colorful.
i dont like deck gunners, but if you like them for what they are and not for the game, go for it. They kill themselves just as much as they kill the enemy (usually more damage to themselves).

Xavier
30-05-2005, 18:49
Thats illegal mate sorry, the zombie unit size for the ones with braces of pistols is max 20 and urs are 30...

Was that directed at me?

If it was, my units are all of 20, I always either use 16 or 20, 4 of 4 or 4 or 5, nothing bigger..

nurgle_boy
30-05-2005, 19:07
i like it, ive not read the list yet, but the numbers sem good, and the big gribblies should be good.

also, exavier, whered you get the custom rank from?

The Pale Lady
30-05-2005, 19:28
Was that directed at me?

If it was, my units are all of 20, I always either use 16 or 20, 4 of 4 or 4 or 5, nothing bigger..

Oh sorry!!! Mut've misread it in my hast to critisize ur list... ;) Hope no offence was taken, if only u could see how much im blushing right now...
TPL

Rabid Bunny 666
30-05-2005, 19:43
where did you get the custom rank

and i need to rewrite as its 3 animated hulks minimum, drat

Bruen
30-05-2005, 21:38
What do you think of this list?

The idea behind it is that each mob+character represents one ships crew and captain. Harkon will join the gunnery mob as he likes to keep his most sucessful creations close to him, and also to compensate for his erratic personality. The dogs and deck droppers are hangers on from the fleet.

I am assuming that the battle standard bearer can take magic banners. If he canlt then who can?

Harkon 260

Fleet Captain, light armor, hand weapon, slann gold, moonshine 136
Fleet Captain, light armor, hand weapon, slann gold, moonshine 136
Fleet Captain, light armor, battle standard - ships colours, slann gold 192

20 Gunnery Mob, brace of pistols, musician, standard 175
30 Deckhand Mob, musician, standard 195
30 Deckhand Mob, musician, standard 195
30 Deckhand Mob, musician, standard 195
9 Scurvy Dogs 90
9 Scurvy Dogs 90

5 Deck Droppers 125
Carronade 70
Carronade 70
Carronade 70

Total 1999

taer
31-05-2005, 02:41
Well, you can't take multiple of the same magic item unless they are scrolls, so you are going to have to change your characters equipment. Also, your BSB can have either a magic standard (no points limit) or 50 points of magic items. I'd also give all of your fleet captains (except the bsb, who can't) an extra hand weapon because they still count as killing blow.

Lordmonkey
31-05-2005, 03:00
LISTER: Look, face it, man. It's just not possible to fry an egg using a bicycle-powered hair dryer.

CAT: My turn on the electric blanket - Pedal!

I'd say it's a good, balanced list. Maybe divide the gunnery mob into two units of 10 and drop the standard/musician - the standard is just easy victory pts for the enemy.

Bruen
31-05-2005, 11:26
Well, you can't take multiple of the same magic item unless they are scrolls, so you are going to have to change your characters equipment. Also, your BSB can have either a magic standard (no points limit) or 50 points of magic items. I'd also give all of your fleet captains (except the bsb, who can't) an extra hand weapon because they still count as killing blow.

Thats what I get for making up army lists before buying the rulebook :P
So basically the list can only have on wizard ever...ouch.

On the hand weapon issue I already gave then an extra hand weapon, I just forgot to add the word extra :P

Thanks for the tips.

If I am going to have the ships colours I might drop a fleet captain and add a syreen.

My thinking about the gunnery mob was that they would form Harkons ships crew, thus being the best equipped. I wasn't planning to use them for shooting but instead get them to use their pistols in CC, hence the musician and standard.

Xavier
31-05-2005, 12:09
also, exavier, whered you get the custom rank from?

Sexual favours for nick.. or I begged and cried and pleaded etc..



Oh sorry!!! Mut've misread it in my hast to critisize ur list... Hope no offence was taken, if only u could see how much im blushing right now...


No, no offence taken.. why did you want to critisize my list..?


I am assuming that the battle standard bearer can take magic banners. If he canlt then who can?

Its the same for most other battle standards, if you take a magic banner you cant have magic items, if you dont take a magic banner you can have any magic items you normally could except ones that need 2 hands or shields.

as a side note, anyone else find it funny theres a magic weapon that confers killing blow.. when they all have wightblades

samw
31-05-2005, 22:55
sorry but aren't the pistol wielding zombies resticted to one unit? I thought so. If you read the bit above the zombie handgunners I'm sure it says ONE unit can swap them for pistols.

Lordmonkey
31-05-2005, 23:39
as a side note, anyone else find it funny theres a magic weapon that confers killing blow.. when they all have wightblades[/color]
Funny as hell... GW strikes, once again!

Xavier
01-06-2005, 11:30
sorry but aren't the pistol wielding zombies resticted to one unit? I thought so. If you read the bit above the zombie handgunners I'm sure it says ONE unit can swap them for pistols.

er.. not sure.. and dont have my white dwarf handy.. they better not :cries: its the one thing that makes zombies good in combat..

librerian_samae
01-06-2005, 14:35
harkon-260

fleet captain-brace o' pistols, ex parrot, mad mullet's spyin' glass- 126

fleet captain-
brace o' pistols, lucky levi's hook hand, enchanted sheild, light armour- 131

syreen-90

35 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

35 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

20 Gunnery Mob- brace of pistols, musician, standard- 175

20 Gunnery Mob- brace of pistols, musician, standard- 175

6 bloated corpses- 180

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

leviathan - 200

997

Well theres my idea for a list, i'm thinking of droping the muscian and standard from the second gunnery mob and spliting it into 2 units of 10 as well as droping the spy glass so as to get an extra bloated corpse.

Either that or do the above but not get the extra bloated corpse and swap out the syreen for a battle standard bearer.

Also do I need 2 fleet captains? should I drop one and get more zombies?

Bruen
01-06-2005, 14:50
IMHO a killer combo is a battle standard bearer with ships colours (causing terror) and a syreen (to lower leadership).

taer
01-06-2005, 18:20
Yes, that is a very good combo, and with two syreens you can make they preffered unit of lowered leadership take two tests to avoid doom and darkness. Double the chance that the 500+ pt. power unit starts running. And with some deck droppers (with a 20" charge) you can almost be assured to catch them once they start running, provided the bats are nearby of course.

Edit: another good combo is that a fleet captain with that ale that makes him cause terror for a turn and syreen's.

Sariel
01-06-2005, 19:49
fleet captain-brace o' pistols, ex parrot, mad mullet's spyin' glass- 126

fleet captain-
brace o' pistols, lucky levi's hook hand, enchanted sheild, light armour- 131

syreen-90


Eh. I'd drop the Syreen (depends on what army you're facing, of course) and all the random magical toys, and I'd park the Fleet Captains with the Carronades as gun guard/gunnery officers. They are'nt ever going to stand up to a charge from a unit of heavy cavalry with character support anyway, so I just would'nt try.



35 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

35 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

Not too shabby at all. Squeeze in a third mob if you can.



20 Gunnery Mob- brace of pistols, musician, standard- 175

20 Gunnery Mob- brace of pistols, musician, standard- 175

What in heck are you going to do with that many big gunnery mobs? If you use them for shooting, you're going to run out of deployment space in a hurry. If you rank them up, you're wasting shots.

Also, (as I've said before in other posts), pistols are a bit of a waste imho. Sure, you get those S4 attacks, but when you consider that your gunnery mobs are always going to be striking last even on the charge, well, there might not be many of them left. These guys are'nt Empire pistoliers, or even DoW Duellists. Its all about ranks, outnumbering and fear.

As a rough rule of thumb, try to buy your mobs in teams - for every unit of 25-30 deckhands, get a unit of 12 handgunners. They cheaper, they won't take up too much space if you want to shoot, and they're small enough that you can use them to countercharge an enemy unit that has stalled in combat against your Deckhands.



6 bloated corpses- 180


Excellent. Keep them. Actually, if you have the points, get more. No one is going to charge them willingly. EVER.



Carronade-70

Carronade-70

Carronade-70


Again, excellent. You're going to need something to take out the other guy's big gribblies, and sooner or later, you're gonna run out of bloated corpses.
Also, you can always push them forward in between your deckhands. Shoot, shoot, grapeshot at 8" and charge!



leviathan = 200


Well, you've got the points to spare, and you get what you pay for.

Sariel
01-06-2005, 20:01
Yes, that is a very good combo, and with two syreens you can make they preffered unit of lowered leadership take two tests to avoid doom and darkness. Double the chance that the 500+ pt. power unit starts running. And with some deck droppers (with a 20" charge) you can almost be assured to catch them once they start running, provided the bats are nearby of course.

Edit: another good combo is that a fleet captain with that ale that makes him cause terror for a turn and syreen's.

Unless they're immune to psychology, in which case you've just spent something like 300 points for nothing. ;)

500+ point power/cavalry units that are immune to psychology:
Slaaneshi Chaos Knights (Chosen optional)
Khornate Chaos Knights (Chosen optional)
Bret Grail Knights
Inner Circle Knights with a Grandmaster
Black Knights
Tomb King chariots
Any of the Daemon cavalry units - actually, ANY Daemon
Any character on a large monster
Any large monster

500+ point power units that cause fear (and therefore only have to take fear tests if they want to charge a unit with terror, and won't autobreak if they fail their Ld tests)
Dark Elf Cold One Knights (Ld 9, 10 with Highborn)
Saurus Cavalry (Ld 8, cold-blooded)
Ogre Ironguts (Ld 8, 9 with a Tyrant)

500+ point power units that will actually have to worry about terror (ie they don't cause fear)
Undivided Chaos Knights (re-roll psych tests on 8, 9 with a Chaos Lord)
Dragon Princes (Ld 9)
Regular heavy cavalry (Ld 8, 8 or 9 with character support)
Orc Boar Boyz (Ld 7, 8 or 9 with character support)

So, about the only thing that is going to reliably flee would be the Orc Boar Boyz and possibly gobbo wolf riders/chariots........

taer
02-06-2005, 05:07
And with that I refer to the fact that you also over pay for every-thing in your army when your enemy is immune to psychology since the ability to cause fear is built into the basic cost of everything in a VC, TK, Daemon, Vampire Coast (Damn them being the same initiative), etc.

Plus, 500 points for nothing? Are you kidding me? The fleet captain still will have a BSB (+1 combat res), and killing blow. So the only "wasted" part there is the 50 for the banner, and however many odd points go into the cost of fleet captains for their fear causing abilities. The Syreen(s) can still be pretty safe from shooting and can be sneaky gits to go and contest table quarters with little fear of reprisal, for a net points denial of 190-380 points depending on whether you have one or two syreens. Not to shabby. And all of that "waste" is truly waste of the special abilities if the entire army is immune to psychology anyhow, which is an uphill battle for an army that relies on fear anyway. There are other respectable uses for these units which I responded to in the other thread on these guys in the tactics section.

librerian_samae
02-06-2005, 09:12
Eh. I'd drop the Syreen (depends on what army you're facing, of course) and all the random magical toys, and I'd park the Fleet Captains with the Carronades as gun guard/gunnery officers. They are'nt ever going to stand up to a charge from a unit of heavy cavalry with character support anyway, so I just would'nt try.

I agree with quite a bit of that, i am thinking of making the second fleet captain either a BSB with ships colurs or just giving him slaan gold.
I'm not sure of weather to keep the syreen or not, I believe she could be very usefull especially if I have the ships colours.
As for putting them with the carronades that is a good idea, but I kinda like the idea of pirate captains running in with their crews for the kill.

For the carrondes I had the idea (probably as others here have) of using zombified leadbeltchers, what can I say I love the models.


What in heck are you going to do with that many big gunnery mobs? If you use them for shooting, you're going to run out of deployment space in a hurry. If you rank them up, you're wasting shots.

Also, (as I've said before in other posts), pistols are a bit of a waste imho. Sure, you get those S4 attacks, but when you consider that your gunnery mobs are always going to be striking last even on the charge, well, there might not be many of them left. These guys are'nt Empire pistoliers, or even DoW Duellists. Its all about ranks, outnumbering and fear.

As a rough rule of thumb, try to buy your mobs in teams - for every unit of 25-30 deckhands, get a unit of 12 handgunners. They cheaper, they won't take up too much space if you want to shoot, and they're small enough that you can use them to countercharge an enemy unit that has stalled in combat against your Deckhands.

In my orrigional list I had only brace of pistol mobs as opposed to deck mobs for my main zombie units, hence the numbers, I know they are a bit redundent but I couldnt bring myself to change them, although as I said at the bottom of my origional post I am considering spliting one of them into 2 units of 10 and dropping the command. Also i think your right about needing an extra deckmob, so I will probably change brace of pistols unit into a deckmob of 35 with the extra points coming from dropped magic items.

so my revised list (a):

harkon-260

fleet captain- brace of pistols & ex-parrot- 116

fleet captain- brace of pistols & slaan gold- 121

syreen-90

34 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

34 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

35 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

10 gunnery mob- brace of psitols- 80

10 gunnery mob- brace of psitols- 80

6 bloated corpses- 180

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

leviathan - 200

2000pts

so my revised list (b):

harkon-260

fleet captain- brace of pistols & ex-parrot- 116

fleet captain BSB- ships colours- 155

syreen-90

34 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

34 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

34 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 225

10 gunnery mob- brace of psitols- 80

10 gunnery mob- brace of psitols- 80

5 bloated corpses- 150

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

leviathan - 200

1998pts

Which of the 2 lists do you think will fair better, bear in mind I dont really expect the fleet capatin in list (a) to do anything except provide an extra dispell dice and give me somthing to roll in the magic phase, but I think its a valied use for him more magic protection for your army(7 dispell dice plus a whopping MR6!) as well as the SLIGHT chance he may once in a million years get a spell off.

Sariel
02-06-2005, 12:06
The fleet captain still will have a BSB (+1 combat res), and killing blow. .

1) The BSB does count as a banner. It is, however, redundant if you already have a banner in the unit.

2) Killing blow is nice if it works out. Then again, with only 3 WS4 attacks, its not something I'd count on. And since these Fleet Captains won't have any help from the Sword of Kings or Banner of the Barrows, I'll cross my fingers, but I would'nt EXPECT it to make much of a difference.

Also, being the BSB, said Fleet Captain is now a T4 W2 character who will have (at best) a 6+ save, and gives away 100 VP, just like any other standard.

It does strike me as a waste, since you're basically buying the Ship's Colours for the sake of :
a) terror (iffy)
b) using Syreens to lower an enemy unit's leadership to the point where terror will (probably) work.

In return, you're making a perfectly average character (the Fleet Captain) worse, and spending 90-180 points on two more characters that could conceivably spend the whole game sitting in opposite corners of the board and are STILL pretty vulnerable to any unit that outnumbers them, the Syreen's Call non-withstanding.

If I wanted to get something that can deny table quarters, I could just spend 60 points and get 2 Bloated Corpses. They're actually tougher than Syreens, cost a third of the points and are a lot less likely to get blasted by a stray Thunderbolt. Or I could be a little more extravagant and spend 140 points on 2 units of 10 zombie gunners, who are even more resilient, will actually stand a chance against light enemy units and can take pot-shots while they're at it.



@ librerian_samae

I'd go with (a) - more bloated corpses.

Also, don't forget that magic resistance only works against spells that target the unit with MR.

librerian_samae
03-06-2005, 08:07
Yeah thats what I was thinking, and yes i know they only work for that specific unit, but it frees up dispell dice for other units to use so more dispell for everyone :D

RandomZombie
11-06-2005, 15:01
Im going for teh shooty armie of death, even with deck gunners!

Luthor Harkon: 260 points
1 fleet captian: light armour, bloody nora 132
1 fleet captian: Dead mans chest(for the giant unit of zombie doom)115

CORE
40 zombie deckahnds musican, standard, 225 points
20 gunner mob zombies musicvan, standard 155
20 gunner mob zombies musican standard 155
5 bloated corpses 150
SPECIAl
18 deck gunners 180
1 cannonade 70
1 cannonade 70

RARE
Leviathan 200
Quenn bess 250

TOTAl= 2,002
Teh fleet captian with the standard is going into teh unit with all the deckhands.

Bruen
11-06-2005, 15:43
I've pretty much settled on my list too:

Luthor Harkon 260

Fleet Captain, additional hand weapon, light armor, Ex-Parrot 116
Fleet Captain, additional hand weapon, light armor, Wharf Rats 111
Fleet Captain, additional hand weapon, light armor 86

13 Gunnery Mob, standard, musician, brace of pistols 119
25 Deckhand Mob, standard, musician 165
24 Deckhand Mob, standard, musician 159
24 Deckhand Mob, standard, musician 159
10 Scurvey Dogs 100
10 Scurvey Dogs 100
3 Bloated Corpses 90

Carronade 70
Carronade 70
Carronade 70
5 Deck Droppers 125

Rotting Leviathan 200

2000

useless
11-06-2005, 16:36
My list

Lord:

harkon-260

heroes:

fleet captain- brace of pistols, light armour & bloody nora- 138

fleet captain- brace of pistols, light armour & slaan gold- 123

fleet captain- brace of pistols, light armour & ships colours- 138


Core:

40 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 255

40 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 255

40 Deckhand Mob- musician, standard- 255

20 gunnery mob- standerd bearer, musician, brace of pistols- 175

20 gunnery mob- standerd bearer, musician, brace of pistols- 175

10 bloated corpses- 130

Special:

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

Carronade-70

10 Animated hulks- 400

Rare:

leviathan - 200

leviathan - 200

2963pts

Rabid Bunny 666
14-06-2005, 11:47
:evilgrin: nasty

i have changed my list slightly, i'll put it up on the weekend, but i gave a fleet captain a brace of pistols and mad mullets spyglass for some character gunslingin'

librerian_samae
14-06-2005, 13:32
yeah character gunslinging is always fun but unfortunatly In my opinion the range is just that little bit too short, mind you give them the scouting item too and go gunsling mages! :evilgrin:

jimbob78
29-06-2005, 19:14
Where did you get this list from? Do you have a link to it?
Thanks


Jimbob78

Bruen
29-06-2005, 19:47
It was in a recent White Dwarf.

Majin
19-07-2005, 02:22
OT:Does anyone know when GW are realeasing the update for the list?

I saw something on thier website about it they said that they were going to add to the list so you dont have to use Harkon, i just cant find it at the moment as the GW site is blocked at school.