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Templar Ben
14-11-2010, 00:35
I was wondering if some GW insiders can give some tidbits about how GW sets the release order with new editions.

I was wondering if they know that an army is due and that is why the army ends up in the starter box. For instance we know that every 40K box will include Space Marines and we know that the first book out of the door for the new edition is the Space Marine book.

What got me thinking about this was the upcoming release of Skaven and Skaven were in the starter set. Were Skaven placed in the starter box because they were going to be updated anyway and GW knew they would get an added boost and it would help getting more starter boxes out of the door?

Thanks in advance.

Wil Grand
14-11-2010, 00:58
Partly, I think. It's perhaps a good thing to have a 'new' army in tje box but I really do think it's to do with balance. Look at the last two sets for the two main and even Mines of Moria and it's aleays a standard army and a horde/mass troop army which I reckon is to let people just getting the game for the first time to get a feel for those two types. It's easy to forget that without the complexity of the army nooks there is very different ways army's play just using points and stat lines and the boxes show you that.
Personally, I think mass troop army or not is the most fundamental choice for every system a wqrgamer can make.

Templar Ben
14-11-2010, 01:27
I agree that they have done a good job of small elite vs horde in each of the starter sets. I was thinking more in terms of which armies they pick.

Torpedo Vegas
14-11-2010, 01:56
I think they pick either which army is selling best or which army is easy to get into. For instance, Assault on Black Reach has the SPESS MAHREENS and Orks, armies that are both easy to play, easy to paint, and are rather popular. The IoB set has High Elves, which aren't an impossibly hard army to play, and Skaven, which are forgiving and very easy for new players to paint.

Templar Ben
14-11-2010, 02:29
Easy to get into makes a lot of sense. Do you think there is a preference for easy to paint or was that just a coincidence?

TonyFlow
14-11-2010, 04:21
I dont think easy to paint is a major factor when deciding which armies go in the box. All models are easy to paint if you paint them simple and hard to paint if you want to paint them to a high standard. In my opinion there is no such thing as a model that is easier to paint than other. Furthermore the models in the starter box (specifically IoB) have become increasingly detailed and as such are not what I would call easy to paint.
It is difficult really to find a pattern in the choice of armies. The last boxed set for fantasy included the last army to be release in the previous edition and the first one to be released in the new edition. So that makes alot of sense. This time this doesnt seem to be the case. Although Skaven have recently been updated, High Elves do not appear to be very near a new release... Wait, although they did get a wave release just after (at the same time?) IoB.
There does seem to be an elite vs horde theme to the last two fantasy and 40k boxes. This is probably to give newcomers the option of trying out both playstyles (and in the case of IoB, the armies also have a number of special rules, maybe to make the newcomer accustomed to how warhammer plays?). It would be very interesting to get inside information on this.

AndrewGPaul
14-11-2010, 09:13
The Warhammer box sets have been:

High Elves and Goblins (4th edition). Almost the entire game line was 'rebooted' with 4th edition, including introducing the individual Warhammer Armies books. Prior to the box set, the Empire army had been given a lot of focus in WD (and might even have had the first army book), so it appears they went with two of the other forces central to the feel of the setting.

Bretonnians and Lizardmen (5th edition): Simple - two new armies that hadn't had new miniatures (or an army list, in the case of Lizardmen) in 4th edition.

Empire and Orcs (6th edition): The two 'signature' armies in Warhammer. A bit of a no-brainer, that one. Again, a 'reboot' of the game, so new army books for everybody, so they were a good place to start.

Dwarfs and Night Goblins (Battle for Skull Pass): After Empire and Orcs, the other classic opponents in Warhammer.

Templar Ben
14-11-2010, 12:15
Thanks for listing those AGP.

TonyFlow
14-11-2010, 12:44
But where do Skaven and High Elves fit? They are not classic opponents and it's been a while since the skaven army book... I can't really make sense of the choice of these two armies.

Glen_Savet
14-11-2010, 13:13
And Brettonians vs Lizardmen made sense?

schmoozies
14-11-2010, 13:51
Brettonian and Lizardmen make sense in that they were the brand new plastic mini line (Brets) and brand new army for 5th edition. Plus remember the starter box didn't come with any sort of narative campaign it was just the rules all lumped together with the mini's.

40K did something similar in 3rd edition where the armies in the starter were the new multipart plastic marines and the Dark Eldar (New army) unfortunatly that was one of the most unbalenced sets I think I've ever seen, with one army so far outclassing the other (marines had a squad and a land speeder while the dark eldar had 20 men with splinter rifles and an option to give splinter cannons to the squad).

Its funny in 40k every starter set has featured Marines. 2nd ed was versus orks. 3rd as menitoned had dark eldar, 4th was vs Tyranids and for 5th they went back to orks.

Templar Ben
14-11-2010, 16:01
Space Marines sell.

I wondered if they put SM in the box because they knew people would buy them no matter what, or if they were putting SM there because they know SM will always be the first army updated in the new edition.

Perhaps we could look at Fantasy sets and see how much time (or number of releases) elapsed between the release of the set and the update of one of the armies in the set.

Korraz
14-11-2010, 17:00
And Brettonians vs Lizardmen made sense?

Brettonian Crusade wandered too far south, stumbled into the jungle part of the southlands and to teach that tree dwelling, frog eating, mud swimming savages a lesson. And then came across the Lizadmen while killing natives in that forests.

AndrewGPaul
15-11-2010, 08:29
But where do Skaven and High Elves fit? They are not classic opponents and it's been a while since the skaven army book... I can't really make sense of the choice of these two armies.

It's already been addressed; high model-count infantry horde army vs low numbers of elites with cavalry and monsters. You also get a good visual contrast. And again, it showcases Warhammer's look. While "high elves" are by no means unique to GW, their take on it is recogniseably their own, and of course Skaven are unique to the setting.

Wil Grand
15-11-2010, 08:52
Space Marines sell.

I wondered if they put SM in the box because they knew people would buy them no matter what, or if they were putting SM there because they know SM will always be the first army updated in the new edition.

Perhaps we could look at Fantasy sets and see how much time (or number of releases) elapsed between the release of the set and the update of one of the armies in the set.
Thing is, the last couple have followed the same path as fantasy by having small number of elites vs a horde and with Black Reach including different unit types so you can get a feel for non infantry units and their rules just like WFB always has.

narrativium
15-11-2010, 09:19
Space Marines are iconic for 40K. They're a core part of the brand.

As to fantasy... it shifts around a bit, but some races fit in the box and some don't. I don't think we'll ever see Ogres or Daemons in the box.