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Petay1985
15-11-2010, 18:18
Hi, having picked up the blood angels codex (mostly because its the only one i don't own and slightly out of curiousity) i am interested in peoples analysis of the stormraven in games, this is not aimed at being a discussion about the leaked picture or its aesthetics. I am purely interested in ho$w it plays, is it under/over priced? over armed? etc...

I'd be grateful for any comments people have from their experience with this recent flying machine. Thanks.

Korraz
15-11-2010, 19:19
It's decent. That's it. Not too good, not too bad. I'd add the sponsons. I liked it for flying Death Company in.

igotsmeakabob!!
15-11-2010, 19:24
You need to build your force around it. Being able to drop a squad of Assault Terminators, a TDA Librarian and a Dreadnought all in one spot is pretty useful, though.

Hendarion
15-11-2010, 19:44
Dropping the Dead is imo the most fearful thing it has to offer.

loveless
15-11-2010, 19:45
I'm underwhelmed by it - it's a lot of points and any opponent is going to pour anti-tank fire into it from across the board (deepstriking it really wastes the assault vehicle potential). It's an AV 12 box that's decently easy prey for long-range anti-tank, but you can put a lot of firepower on it in addition to its transport capacity. Regardless of what you're doing with it, it's a considerable threat.

Dreadnought transportation makes it even more horrifying, as it can mitigate the problem of trying to get a combat dread across the board. Being an assault vehicle, a properly equipped Furioso or Death Company Dread could make a ridiculous advance across the board. As to whether or not it's worth the investment - well, up to your own tastes.

I like it, but I think I'd be tempted to take a brace of them as opposed to a singular one.

dragonet111
15-11-2010, 19:59
You need to build your force around it. Being able to drop a squad of Assault Terminators, a TDA Librarian and a Dreadnought all in one spot is pretty useful, though.

Exactly what I did but we usually play 1500 points games and it's a bit rough:D.

Petay1985
15-11-2010, 20:19
thanks for all the input so far folks, its interesting as my initial opinion of the stormraven was that it's an absolute steal for the points and has the potential to be very heavily armed!

anyone one out there come up against one in combat? interested in an analysis from an opponent.

Arvendragon
15-11-2010, 20:25
As AV12 flyer/skimmer, WAY too easy to destroy. Too much of a threat, and 200-300 points invested in it, as well as carrying devastating assault units, means it's probably the first thing killed.

Cry of the Wind
15-11-2010, 20:37
I think Arvendragon has it there. The thing is just going to be such a large part of your army the enemy can't ignore it. If it is a bigger game they probably have the firepower to swat it down without too much work.

Tethylis
15-11-2010, 22:29
Well I've only ever faced them with my Eldar and I must say they were pretty terrifying. The only way Eldar have to deal with armour is S6 spam at side/rear armour but it's AV12 all round so good luck with that :(. The other option is usually with Fire Dragons up close but as it's also immune to close range melta so thats also no good :confused:.

I did manage to get lucky and bring one down with a volley from a pretty expensive Wraithguard squad but then out came a rather angry DC squad & talon armed dread wondering who just busted up their nice new ride :mad:.

loveless
15-11-2010, 22:52
Well I've only ever faced them with my Eldar and I must say they were pretty terrifying. The only way Eldar have to deal with armour is S6 spam at side/rear armour but it's AV12 all round so good luck with that :(. The other option is usually with Fire Dragons up close but as it's also immune to close range melta so thats also no good :confused:.


Not to drag this off topic or anything, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of Eldar anti-tank there.

Brightlances, Eldar Missile Launchers, Focused Prism Cannons, and Pulse Lasers all stand a decent chance of putting a dent in a Stormraven, usually from a pretty good distance downfield.

Heck, even a melta weapon isn't useless against a Stormraven - from what I recall, Ceramite Plating only removes the extra d6, it doesn't negate the shot entirely. With Strength 8, you'll glance or better half of the time with your hits.

Stonerhino
15-11-2010, 22:59
I think it was a good idea but as it is. It under performs on the table for it's point cost.

Xeones
15-11-2010, 23:05
I definitely think the list has to be built around them. They're a lot like Landraiders in that regard.

Personally, I think people who run units like Death Co., DC Dread, and Reclusiarch in a SR are putting WAY too many points into one very fragile basket.

My personal opinion is that people should put EITHER an infantry unit OR a dreadnought in a SR, but doing both just makes it too big of a target IMO.

SRs will do best in lists that are extremely aggressive with lots of threats that your opponent has to deal with immediately or they will ruin his day. If you drop your dreads in Pods, and boost your SR up then you've got two units that will threaten CC on Turn 2. If both the SR and the dread survive into the later turns, you can re-deploy the dread as needed. If the SR goes down, hopefully the dread will mulch units in CC. If your Dread goes down, your SR unit will clean up.

Add in a couple of turbo-boosting Flamestorm Baals and you are really going to make your opponent sweat.

Threat saturation is the name of the game. If people want to target your SRs, make them suffer for it by pasting them with several other threats they didn't counter. Essentially, taking SRs in your list forces you to start thinking a little like a DE player. Hit them hard; hit them fast. Once your units have disembarked, your primary mission with your stormravens will be supporting your front line troops. Don't be afraid to boost your SR past 12" to get that 4+ cover save. You can still use PotMS to fire a weapon. Slow down only if you really want something dead. Librarians with Shield are also useful you won't be getting quite as much cover from them so your transports are likely to die faster.

LonelyPath
16-11-2010, 00:48
Only faced it twice and it's done nothing really, but I still think it's a nice thing, I just played against those who didn't use it effectively. I've seen people use it very well and it can do alot of damage if used right.

Petay1985
16-11-2010, 14:53
would people say its pretty accurately priced then?

ColShaw
16-11-2010, 15:17
I've only faced one, and was unimpressed. It came down, shot some guys, died, and the squad and Dreadnought inside popped out. I killed the dread, the Death Company that piled out did some damage and got killed.

Like the Vendetta for the IG, it's an Armor 12 skimmer. Good at putting pressure on the opposition, bad at surviving.

loveless
16-11-2010, 15:45
would people say its pretty accurately priced then?

That's a good question, really.

It was never a price issue that kept me questioning it - more a tactical issue. It's "fair" in that, if you focus the list around using them, you should be able to pull it off fairly well. The problem is that your opponent will see it coming, and it doesn't take a whole lot to scrap an AV 12 vehicle.

It's nearly the cost of a Land Raider, which, while slower, is more survivable against long range anti-tank. You also have a real temptation to "overload" the Stormraven - it has a lot of transport capacity and a lot of options. It's an assault vehicle with long-range missiles, which you could potentially outfit with anti-personnel weapons as well (making it some sort of flying Godhammer/Crusader hybrid...) which is something you'll typically want to avoid as it wastes potential every turn and makes it a larger priority target.

I'd almost be willing to call it overpriced, but it has devastating potential. When it works, it'll be worth every point - but when it doesn't work, you'll be kicking yourself.

The capability of it working is up to your skills as a player as well as the scenario and terrain of the game at hand.

Zweischneid
16-11-2010, 15:52
Well, it is fast and has PoMS and potentially a Dread in tow.

That's alot of potential heavy weapons to dish out even after moving 12" (or deep strike) and it's gotta be priced accordingly to that damage potential; even if it surely dies a turn later.

Also, the missiles have 72" range. That's some IG/TAU-like range that SMs in general have only limited access to.

Carnage
16-11-2010, 15:58
I come up against them frequently. One of my opponents uses 1 in 1850 and another uses 2 in 1500.

It's AV12, fast and a skimmer but for 200+ points she's not cheap.

People say it's easy to kill, but it's more resilient then a rhino/razor, and against melta it fares even better than a land-raider at close ranges. They aren't indestructible and they are usually #1 priority targets so eat a lot of firepower.

They are flying land raiders....sure it was a joke, but really, that's exactly what it is. Throw a pricey squad in it, a furioso or DC dread and a character and yeah, there goes almost half a 1500 point army points wise but when it delivers you are in a word of hurt.

They are also fairly impressive as a fire platform. I've seen them stand off for the first turn or 2 and drop the TL-lascannon, multi-melta and 4 blood strike missiles into an opponents army to soften up enemy armor for safer delivery. The PotMS is super super lame on it too, being able to move 24" and fire a TL-multi-melta is just unfair. I know some people will want to buy the hurricane bolters, but it's smarter to keep it cheap and leave the anti-infantry to your transported guys.

It's a predator, land raider, and dread transport that can also carry terminators, all for 200ish points....and it's fast to boot.

If my Ultramarines could get access to them, my LR would be out the window in a second and it would be in, it fits PERFECTLY into my play style....i've got my fingers crossed that when it gets a model in Jan/Feb White Dwarf allows it to be taken in vanilla marines...otherwise I'll have to wait until 6th edition marine codex

loveless
16-11-2010, 16:02
Also, the missiles have 72" range. That's some IG/TAU-like range that SMs in general have only limited access to.

I actually see this as more of an issue, or maybe even an afterthought.

If you're taking advantage of the ridiculous range, you're wasting the transport capacity, as well as the benefits of the movement capabilities. The missiles - while awesome - seem counterintuitive to what you'd want to be doing with the Stormraven - delivering a squad/Dreadnought to the enemy in style.

It's a balancing act - since a lot of the scarier anti-tank weapons are often mounted on tanks themselves, you could use the range of the missiles to try and pop some of the biggest threats to the Stormraven while you get into position. At the same time, you want to be careful so that you don't leave yourself open to too much retaliation.

Oddly enough, as much as I seem to be speaking out against it, my own considerations are making me want to try the Stormraven more and more...

EDIT:


If my Ultramarines could get access to them, my LR would be out the window in a second and it would be in, it fits PERFECTLY into my play style....i've got my fingers crossed that when it gets a model in Jan/Feb White Dwarf allows it to be taken in vanilla marines...otherwise I'll have to wait until 6th edition marine codex

All reliable signs point to the Stormraven being added on to Codex: Space Marines when the model releases - likely through a White Dwarf/Website addendum.

Carnage
16-11-2010, 16:49
EDIT:


All reliable signs point to the Stormraven being added on to Codex: Space Marines when the model releases - likely through a White Dwarf/Website addendum.

I haven't heard anything reliable about this. It's all been people hoping and speculating. I mean, it would make SENSE to sell to a wider crowd, but logic and what some people do....well...they aren't always the same.

loveless
16-11-2010, 17:19
I haven't heard anything reliable about this. It's all been people hoping and speculating. I mean, it would make SENSE to sell to a wider crowd, but logic and what some people do....well...they aren't always the same.

Relevant post:


in fact as of feb it will be more than just BA and grey knights...


That's from the thread in N&RD, and Frgt is pretty reliable.

Carnage
16-11-2010, 17:25
Sweet, thanks!