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duke death
14-03-2006, 00:59
Hi all, I am quite new to this forum, but not to the game of WFB. Now as we all know missile weapon units get to fire with an extra rank if positioned on a hill, right. But if they tagrget a unit also on a hill of similar height (but not the same hill) do they still fire with 2 ranks? would the relative heights of the hills make a difference?

We played a game yesterday where this situation came up and decided they could only shoot whith one rank. What is your opinion of the rules on this?????
:skull:

Dillinger
14-03-2006, 04:18
They would shoot with just 1 rank as they are not benefiting from an elevated position.

It would be no different than the diagram on page 60 of the BRB (even though they are on seperate hills in your example).

T10
14-03-2006, 05:56
The idea is that a hill will allow the models to "really" be at varying elevation and thus fire past friendlies. This has less to do with the fact that the unit is on a different elevation.

Thus units on flat ground will not have any benefits from firing at a unit on a hill, but two units on hills firing at each other will both benefit.

-T10

Pravus
14-03-2006, 08:55
Thus units on flat ground will not have any benefits from firing at a unit on a hill, but two units on hills firing at each other will both benefit.


I think we might have been playing this incorrectly then at my local store. We've always based our interpretation of the elevation being akin to a large target (without the +1 to hit of course). I.e. They can be seen and targetted by two ranks of archers. I think it works quite well for us so we may keep it as a house rule.

Dillinger
14-03-2006, 13:15
Thus units on flat ground will not have any benefits from firing at a unit on a hill, but two units on hills firing at each other will both benefit.
-T10

Are you saying that 2 units, on hills, firing on each other will both get to fire with the extra rank?

SuperBeast
14-03-2006, 13:39
Yes.
The rules as they stand:
If the firing unit is a) on a hill and/or b) firing at a large target, it may fire with two ranks.

Relative height makes no difference to this.

Dillinger
14-03-2006, 13:45
Yes.
The rules as they stand:
If the firing unit is a) on a hill and/or b) firing at a large target, it may fire with two ranks.

Relative height makes no difference to this.

Can you reference that?

To me the diagram on page 60 of the BRB is pretty clear, you only fire with 1 rank if the unit is on the same hill...to me common sense would dictate that this also holds true for different yet similarly sized hills.

SuperBeast
14-03-2006, 14:15
Warhammer Chronicles 2004 Annual:
"Q: Can models behind the first rank see large targets and shoot at them?"
"A: Yes."

As for the 2nd part... Well blow me.
The rules contradict themselves. :rolleyes:
Page 60 of the BRB.
It contains the blanket models-on-hills-fire-in-two-ranks, but also states "use model's eye view".
As 99.99% of gaming hills are flat to allow deplyment of troops, this means that, being pedantic, the 2nd rank could only ever fire at models higher than them.
As T10 said earlier, the logic of more ranks firing is based on the idea of varied elevation within units, not between them.

On the same hill, more than understandable that units count as being on the same level for shooting - whatever way you twist it, a plane is a plane is a plane, so the hill counts as level ground between units sharing it.

As far as the rules stand, and presuming that you haven't agreed that hill x and hill y are different heights before the game, then you only get one rank against other models "in an elevated position".
This would include towers, castle walls, etc.

The two ranks requires being in a recognised position of elevation over the target.
(Unless you're using model's eye view, of course...)

mageith
14-03-2006, 14:26
It contains the blanket models-on-hills-fire-in-two-ranks, but also states "use model's eye view".

As an early and nearly universal convention, players generally ignore the model's eye view 'rule'.



As far as the rules stand, and presuming that you haven't agreed that hill x and hill y are different heights before the game, then you only get one rank against other models "in an elevated position".
This would include towers, castle walls, etc.

By the same token, models on castle walls can't fire in two ranks either since only one rank is allowed on the rampart. But anyone who pendantically follows the rules in Siege is in for a bad time anyway.

Mage Ith

mageith
14-03-2006, 14:28
Yes.
The rules as they stand:
If the firing unit is .... firing at a large target, it may fire with two ranks.

Actually units firing at a Large Target can fire from ALL ranks.

Mage Ith