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Bauknefer
18-11-2010, 01:40
I really want to start lizardmen. but im not sure how to go about buying the models. i want to have a slann and an oldblood. This is for personal reasons. I will be doing 2k so characters cant be decked out.

Slann- 275- focus of mystery (lore of life)
Oldblood- 207- Armor of Destiny, GW

This is what i was thinking for characters. On my playtest with them they both worked great. now for the army what i had play tested was this

Stegadon
Skinks x24 with 3 krox standard and mus
Saurus x19 with sword and board standard and mus
Temple Guard x20 standard and mus
Terradons x3
Razordon - (performed Great for me surprisingly)
Salamander

The whole army performed very well but model wise this is very expensive to buy. for instance buying 2 boxes of saurus and not using 12 and the terradons are very expensive money wise

Vsurma
18-11-2010, 07:12
The oldblood is really a scar vet that costs double for 1 extra attack, init and ws, it is not worth it.

The reason to take a oldblood is either for the carnosaur or to take advantage of items that cost over 50 points, your build has neither so go with a scar vet. Heck, go with 2.

Slann isn't a slann without focus of rumination. Add plaque of tepok for additional spells.

If you want to save money then go for the battalion box.
Saurus, skinks, templeguard and a unit of cold ones thrown in for free essentially.

Battalion + slann will let you play 1250 point games. Build from there

Grey Mage
18-11-2010, 07:41
I agree- Battalion, Slann, and an extra box of Saurus and Temple Gaurd net you:

Slann
20 Temple Gaurd to put him in.
40 Saurus with spears or HW+Shield.
12 Skinks.
5 Cold One Riders and the option for a full command.

Thats a great start to an army. Some chameleon skinks or Terradons to go warmachine hunting are also an excellent choice.

Razordons arent a bad unit, Salamanders are just better against really big units- especially those with better armor saves. Getting one or two of either is never a bad idea but it could wait for later.

Vsurma
18-11-2010, 07:59
Well if your going to spend another 60e? on some more saurus and temple guard you may as well just get a 2nd battalion.

Bauknefer
18-11-2010, 14:03
hmmm you really think the scar-vet can hang? isnt he t4 and 2 wounds and have 1 less armor save? Well i guess if i give his unit +4t he will be fine.

I guess getting the battalion is a good idea for the saurus and temple guard. but i really wanted a skrox unit because i think it looks awesome. but i guess i could drop that for something else, i guess another 20 man saurus unit. then just getting 2 battalions and characters plus a steg and a sally and razor.

then my army would look like

Slann-focus of mystery, focused Rumination
Scar-vet- Armor of Destiny, GW
Saurus x19- standard, Mus
Saurus x20- standard, mus
skinks x20- standard, mus
Temple guardx20- standard mus
Stegadon
Razordon
Salamander

and if i have points left over ill do cold one cav. I really like the oldblood and may switch back but ill test him out as a scar vet first.
This list looks alot more boring tbh. Not as much variety. maybe if i just get 1 battalion and stick to 1 unit of saurus then i get a box of temple guard and fill up my core with skrox?

Vsurma
18-11-2010, 19:43
Uh no, he has the same T, all he loses for being half the price is 1 ws, init, armour save and attack. That is it.

The +1 armour save is nice of course but the T5 is fairly decent, you can give the scar vet armour of fortune for 2+/4++, or you can have enchanted shield for a cheap 2+ save.

A lot of people seem to forgo armour and just go with LA/GW, its very cheap, about 100pts for T5 4+ and 4 S7 attacks. Put the guy on the flank of the unit and only 1 model + the guy behind him can hit him. Though most people will tend to want to strike the saurus anyway as they are easier to kill and no one will know if you have the ward save or not.

Make those skinks chameleon skinks or at the very least normal skirmishing ones and your good.

Malorian
18-11-2010, 20:03
It should be noted that oldbloods also have another wound (maybe obvious, but also important) and that the larger point allowance of gear makes for some crazy combos (sword of bloodshed and potion of strength anyone?).

rakuen
18-11-2010, 20:33
you could get 10 attacks with the oldblood (+3 atk sword, maiming shield, potion of fool hardiness).

But I recommend slann, free power dice per spell, lore master. and if you're using Life, take the forbidden rod (main rulebook).

The batallion is a great starting point. Also, Salamanders are fantastic vs hoard armies, but if GW is too expensive try the Reapers Minitures dire crocodile.

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/P-65%20Heavy%20Metal/release/65107

Kevlar
18-11-2010, 21:16
Just buy 4 stegadons, a slann, and 50 chameleon skinks.

Malorian
18-11-2010, 21:27
Just buy 4 stegadons, a slann, and 50 chameleon skinks.


Not too sure this will make army comp rules ;)

Kudzu
19-11-2010, 00:04
This is my tourney army, the Sandy Cloacae

Slann-- BSB, Rumination, Mystery (Light), Becalming, Cupped Hands, Standard of Discipline

Skink Priest-- Lvl 1, Cube of Darkness

Scar Vet-- Piranha Blade, Dragon Helm, light armor, shield

29 Saurus-- Spears, full command (vet here)

22+2 Skrox-- full command

10 Skink Skirmishers (priest here)

20 Temple Guard-- FC, Sun Standard, Blood Statuette (Slann here)

7 Chameleon Skinks

7 Chameleon Skinks

7 Chameleon Skinks

Ancient Steg

Sally+ extra crew

Sally + extra crew

Total-- 2500 on the nose

I've decided to go with light over life, it's not quite as powerful but I end up having more fun with it. Beyond that, fairly standard 8th ed. Slann build.

The priests only job is to get off the cube of darkness and hopefully shut down a magic phase, otherwise he might cast the heavens signature spell once or twice.

The Scar vet is made for taking out enemy heroes (just needs to slide one unsaved wound past for a kill on a BSB or back up caster) and possibly monsters, he gets great if buffed by light spells (WS 10, I 10, ASF, +1 attack, yes please!).

I love my block of spear Saurus, 6x5 and buffed by light they toss out an insane amount of attacks.

Skrox are still my all-stars, taking out heavy cav and getting off flank charges.

21 total Chameleon Skinks gives me a lot of scouting power-- war machines, most monsters, lightly armored troops, and solo characters are toast.

The Temple Guard are fairly well protected from most missile fire, with Pha's protection up (which it almost always is) they are -2 to hit from over 12 inches (not counting long range) and have a 50% chance of avoiding cannon fire.

Steg and Sallies speak for themselves.

Bauknefer
19-11-2010, 03:30
wow. I thought the scar-vet was like the chaos exalted str5 t4. nice well scar vet it is. now i tried cham skinks and they did nothing for me. maybe im just not good with scouts. but being so far away from support and only taking on things that are roughly the same point value.( 35 pt spear chukkas? or a 100ish corpse cart or cheap skaven weapon teams) doesnt seem very effective. they kill a target and die horribly. now maybe thats just the way im using them but it seems like i can do the same or better with terradon riders.

But maybe giving my slann rumination will really add that extra oomph but i dont think i need 2 units of saurus i would rather have one unit of saurus and one skrox

I never thought of using skink characters because heavens doesnt look too good and the skink chief doesnt look that good on paper other then the expensive terradon staff of sun build and he gets a little pricey. maybe having a char on a steg would help but then they become an even bigger target.

i dont want to spam sallies because that seems a little too Gouda. but one of each seems a good balance. and i am not sure about cold one riders but ill have 8 with the battalion so 5 naked riders doesnt seem like a bad option.

Thanks for all the input guys this has been very helpful :) keep it coming if possible

Kudzu
19-11-2010, 05:02
now i tried cham skinks and they did nothing for me. maybe im just not good with scouts. but being so far away from support and only taking on things that are roughly the same point value.( 35 pt spear chukkas? or a 100ish corpse cart or cheap skaven weapon teams) doesnt seem very effective. they kill a target and die horribly. now maybe thats just the way im using them but it seems like i can do the same or better with terradon riders.
The trick is to stay out of charge arcs. With the new scouting rules as long as you are 12 inches away you can deploy anywhere, including the enemies deployment zone. Use this to your advantage and set up off to the side/behind units and plink away at them. You're fast enough that after the first turn you can run rings around anything, always staying to the side or behind a unit and within 6 inches to make full use of double-tapping blowguns.

You would be amazed at how quickly you can make your points back with Chamo Skinks: taking out a cannon/helblaster/bolt thrower, killing off solo mages (or mage bunkers) or small ranged units, even removing a rank off a block of infantry, killing a knight, or getting the occasional march block can swing an entire game. If nothing else it forces your foe to spend time chasing them down or shooting/magicing them.

They are the ultimate harassing unit.



I never thought of using skink characters because heavens doesnt look too good


Heavens is terrible, which is why I keep my priest cheap as a level 1 scroll caddy. With the changes to template weapons putting one on a steg is just asking to die.

Grey Mage
19-11-2010, 06:46
A skink priest isnt worthless- the signature spell from lore of heavens is a great way to cut down on enemy shooting.

Still chameleon skinks arent really meant to survive. Look at it this way- if they take out a 100pt great cannon theyve probly saves you 120pts worth of dead saurus, maybe alot more.

Vsurma
19-11-2010, 07:03
wow. I thought the scar-vet was like the chaos exalted str5 t4. nice well scar vet it is. now i tried cham skinks and they did nothing for me. maybe im just not good with scouts. but being so far away from support and only taking on things that are roughly the same point value.( 35 pt spear chukkas? or a 100ish corpse cart or cheap skaven weapon teams) doesnt seem very effective. they kill a target and die horribly. now maybe thats just the way im using them but it seems like i can do the same or better with terradon riders.

But maybe giving my slann rumination will really add that extra oomph but i dont think i need 2 units of saurus i would rather have one unit of saurus and one skrox

I never thought of using skink characters because heavens doesnt look too good and the skink chief doesnt look that good on paper other then the expensive terradon staff of sun build and he gets a little pricey. maybe having a char on a steg would help but then they become an even bigger target.

i dont want to spam sallies because that seems a little too Gouda. but one of each seems a good balance. and i am not sure about cold one riders but ill have 8 with the battalion so 5 naked riders doesnt seem like a bad option.

Thanks for all the input guys this has been very helpful :) keep it coming if possible

They shouldn't be dieing really, you should be deploying in the enemy flanks unless they cover them very well, firing at them from the flank or rear.

Ideally out of charge range of the enemy, use terrain to your advantage.

They can also be used to the front, in which case you flee from charges, you can double tap from 12" away so there is no reason you shouldn't get away most of the time, this causes the enemy a failed charge hopefully to your advantage.

They are a strategic unit and should be used as such. Anything with BS3 or even BS4 if you can get into cover really won't hit them, you don't really need to fear shooting.

It is charges and magic you need to watch out for.

I think heavens is indeed a horrible lore, might even be worse than fire on a lv1-2 mage. The reason I run a skink priest is so I can have a backup caster/dispeller if my slann fails. I can alawys throw my remaining power dice at whatever spell my lv1 has and at least do something.

The lv1 spell never gets any use in normal circumstances as the slann gets a free dice with each spell cast and the priest does not.

That means 1 dice casts on a slann then to average a casting value of 11, while on a lv1 skink priest it is a 4.5. Also the casting value of said sig spell is very high meaning you need 2 dice to cast it.

Bauknefer
19-11-2010, 12:28
hmmm ill have to try that with the skinks i was trying to just take out warmachines and they did but they never made their points back because i can just heal dead saurus (and did many times) but taking out units i think is the real kicker. Thanks for the advice on the skinks ill have to use them again.

Im still not sold on a scroll caddy. as it was i was in complete control of the magic phase with just my level 4. so i wont be taking skink characters i think. I may change my mind later.

However i may change my list around to include cham skinks. dropping terradons and dropping the oldblood to a scarvet saves me enough points to give my slann rumination and some more points for cham skinks.

Slann- rumination,mystery- 325
Scarvet- armor of destiny, gw- 143

saurus x19- standard, mus- 227
skinks x24- standard, mus, 3x krox- 299
Temple guardx20- standard, mus- 341
chameleon skinks x10- 120
Cold ones Ridersx5- 175
Stegadon- 235
razordon- 75
Salamander-75

This puts me at 2015. any ideas?

Renigade
19-11-2010, 21:17
One of my buddies use the lore of beasts in conjunction with his skinks. Imagine +3 st +3 attacks then give them a kick of +3 toughness. Holy @#$% skinks that can take about anything. I saw it happen so many times in so many games, no one suspects the skinks.

Bauknefer
20-11-2010, 00:30
Haha i never would have thought of the skinks and beasts combo. thats funny.

I might keep the oldblood just for fluff and keep the slann without rumination. I also think i may drop the steg for some camo skinks. or for a scarvet on a cold-one to go with the riders. or dropping the riders.

Spinocus
20-11-2010, 00:53
One of my buddies use the lore of beasts in conjunction with his skinks. Imagine +3 st +3 attacks then give them a kick of +3 toughness. Holy @#$% skinks that can take about anything. I saw it happen so many times in so many games, no one suspects the skinks.

Umm, those two Beasts spells can only be used on friendly characters, not units! The only Beasts spell that buffs a unit is the first one which grants +1 STR & +1 T.

Kudzu
20-11-2010, 01:13
Umm, those two Beasts spells can only be used on friendly characters, not units! The only Beasts spell that buffs a unit is the first one which grants +1 STR & +1 T.

It works if the front rank is all skink chiefs and you do the AOE version of the beast spells.

Bauknefer
20-11-2010, 02:38
awww lol that shows me for believing before i research. I wont field a whole rank of characters all it takes is one character with sword of anti heroes and there is a single model that will remove that unit in a round or 2 lol.

Now with a cheap oldblood like mine with a GW and AoD he has a 2+ 4++ and t5 3w he can take a major beating and still possibly survive. I fight VC and OnG alot and the VC player using this build that puts out a ton of str5 attacks with re rolls and all this stuff and the orcs use Grimgor. Now i like having a character that isnt afraid of them.

The oldblood surprisingly went toe to toe with grimgor for 2 rounds before i could heal him. he killed grimgor in 4 rounds. all i had to do was have the slann heal him with the special thing from Life. I didnt even have to dedicate a power dice to him. I like having a combat char that puts that kind of fear in an opponent when you say he was 207 pts.

Now i like having that level 4 caster with a 4+ ward save is the best most armies can ask for. Now ours comes base with that and not to mention has access to all lores and can know all the spells. for me that is enough.

So my thinking is that if its enough for other armies why should we make them be so much more then necessary? 275 is alot to pay for a caster. just because you can pay more does that mean you have to? And if paying so much lets say 450 points for a slann and you go against an army that can shut down your magic you are out 450 pts.

So what if an opponent shuts down your plain level 4. for 275 you have a ld9 general with a hardcore body guard that cant be challenged or have cc hits allocated to him that just so happens to have 5 wounds.

Am i totally missing something?

Vsurma
20-11-2010, 07:23
The slann can be challenge, there is no btb requirement there.

That said if you are challenged you do still get to use the BSB ability after refusing, or at least I couldn't find anything under refusing challenge or bsb section of the rulebook.

So there really any negative effect for refusing? you even trade 1 S3 attack into 2 S5 attacks as the slann moves to the back and 2 TG take its place, nice.

A cheap 315pts slann is a viable option: slann, rumination, plaque of tepok, bsb. 5 Spells, +1 dice per spell and is the BSB, everything you need.

That said even with the lore of life taking a slann in a TG block without cupped hands is just asking for your slann to kill his own unit. No other mage is hurt by a miscast as much as the slann in TG.

You really have 2 options, TG and cupped hands or no TG.
So that adds to your cost.

Then there is magic defence, lizardmen happen to be one of the only armies that can take magic offence buffs (rumination) and defensive buffs (cogitation) most armies get 1 or the other.

By taking both you can dominate your magic phase and the enemies and it takes away one of the greater weaknesses of the army, having the opponent cast pitt of shades/purple sun on IF.

Without IF you can always use a scroll, taking cogitation and a scroll caddy means you will be fairly safe from magic, with this combo I have yet to take a purple sun or pitt on my armies in of my recent tournaments.

So yea you can take a cheaper slann, save yourself 100-150pts but that 1 spell that goes through because of this not only does more damage points wise, but it can screw your battle plan over.

Taking 1 extra unit of saurus isn't actually as good as saving 1 from dieing in the game as positioning is important and the unit you lose will be the one you need the most.

If you look at the ETC draft rules you will see the slann has been weakened a lot. They don't want people using rumination/cogitation/cupped hands slanns. There is a reason for this.

Bauknefer
20-11-2010, 12:42
I did suffer 3 miscasts in 3 turns but throne of vines really helped me out. I am worried about purple sun and pit of shades but neither me or my opponent have been able to get off our big guns. me with dwellers and him with purple sun.

but im also mainly just playing with friends. we dont really go hyper competitive but we dont dally with just fluff lists either. And i have a feeling that if i bring a decked out slann that all of that will change.

and yeah i know that i wont be able to hang with teclis but i dont have any friends that play HE and no one around here goes magic heavy except VC and he usually balances it with fluff choices, unless he is frustrated about losing then he will usually dominate( unless i brought out my WoC)

So i think ill keep trying with the character set up i have and see how it does. If it doesnt work out then ill just add rumination to my slann and drop the oldblood to a scar vet. Thank you for all of your help

samwise
29-11-2010, 19:41
Regarding the Slann.

It is ABSOLUTELY essential that you take Focus of Rumination. It's one of the best costed abilities in the game. A free dice with ever attempt. Just think that if you throw one of your pool dice at a spell, you get a free dice, and +4 from your level, making an average of 11 from a single pool dice. With a good winds of magic roll, its not unusual for a Slann to attempt to cast most or all of the lore every turn,which brings me onto the second point. Focus of mystery, always. It gets you the spells you want all the time without error.

If you go with anything else apart from the lore of life, you need Cupped hands. You're throwing a lot of dice, and miscast protection is extremely valuble, especially seeing how bad the new table is. Life has throne of vines, which can cover this. I've never seen anyone take a slann without making it a BSB as well, because as a slann is also the general, leadership 9 on coldblooded basicly works out the same as ld 11, and you get your bsb reroll with that, meaning stuff aint going to run off much.

So as a minimum, I'd say a slann needs mystery and rumination, bsb and cupped hands if you're not running life. Unfathomable presence is a good look too with mr3. If you are running life, have a look at a power scroll. It essentially means that if you use it, throw 6 dice at it, it guarantees any spell will go off with irresistable force (something more than 99.5% chance). Have a think about being able to cast Dwellers from Below (24 inch version) once per game, whilst your opponent is extremely unlikely to be able to anything about it at all..

I usually run my slann as a lone wolf (by himself). I have Rumination, Mystery, Unfathomable and Higher state as my Diciplines. He gets bsb, cupped hands and divine plaque of protection. It sounds odd running him by himself, but this setup means that he is invulnerable to nonmagic weapons, has a 2+ ward vs magic shooting and mr3 vs any other magic. Essentially completely invulnerable at range, barring a nasty spell coming the other way and getting lucky (which you can't do anything about anyway). I've run a varient of this (always with the 4 diciplines) for ages, and he's died about twice (once to some extremely lucky dwarf miners. It costs near enough 550 points, but thats 550 points that almost never dies.

Rest of army.

Skinks. Lots. Blowpipes used to be great, but now basic javelin cohorts rule. 58 points (musician always) gets you 5x2 skinks that tip out 10 poisoned shots per turn that always hit on 4's. Have at least 2, maybe 4 of these units. They cost nothing, and you can put them down, making your opponent deploy half his army whilst giving nothing away. They're cheap, disposable, fast and suprisingly effective at range. Blowpipes aren't as good anymore, but get them up close (stationary at within 12 inches, or moving to within 6) and a 90 odd point unit is getting 24 poisoned shots a turn.

Stegadons- not as good as last edition, but an ancient with a chieftan and warspear, and the engine are still dead good. Even the basic ones aren't bad, although I've never used a regular stegadon, as I like my impact and stomp hits at s6 instead of s5 ;)

Not sure about cavalry, they seem weaker than last edition. Basic Saurus with Spears are good value, and a good anchor. Carnosaur Oldblood is one of the most horrible close combat things you could hope to face, Scar Vets are extrordinarilly good, kroxigors in skinks are pretty good, terradons are okay, and I never use chameleon skinks, as for the price of a chameleon, I can have 2 regular skinks and points to spare.

Also last point, 2x Salamander can be very potent. Flame templates are easy to hit with, and aim them at blocks, and you can get fairly good casualty levels. Razordons have to roll to hit, and can't manage the damage output salamanders deliver.

samwise
29-11-2010, 19:47
One of my buddies use the lore of beasts in conjunction with his skinks. Imagine +3 st +3 attacks then give them a kick of +3 toughness. Holy @#$% skinks that can take about anything. I saw it happen so many times in so many games, no one suspects the skinks.

As that spell only works on characters, you'd have to take a load of skink chieftans, which is tactically suspect at best. I know if I was facing a unit with 4/5 chieftans, and knew my opponent had beasts, I wouldn't engage it head on. Such a unit costs a load of points, does nothing without that spell, and will die horribly to shooting/magic/templates. If I was facing one chieftan I wouldn't be too bothered, +3 s and attacks hardly makes the chief a gamebreaker by any shot, and withoutthe spell, chieftans are complete garbage. The only use is a warspear chief.

Kudzu
30-11-2010, 05:56
As that spell only works on characters, you'd have to take a load of skink chieftans, which is tactically suspect at best. I know if I was facing a unit with 4/5 chieftans, and knew my opponent had beasts, I wouldn't engage it head on.
You probably wouldn't have a choice in the matter, skinks are almost as fast as cav.


Such a unit costs a load of points, does nothing without that spell, and will die horribly to shooting/magic/templates. If I was facing one chieftan I wouldn't be too bothered, +3 s and attacks hardly makes the chief a gamebreaker by any shot, and withoutthe spell, chieftans are complete garbage. The only use is a warspear chief.

Actually, chiefs are pretty cheap points wise, especially since the only gear you would give them is a second hand weapon. With that load out each one is throwing out 4 WS4, S4, I6 attacks unbuffed and you would have to target each one independently in combat (+LOS vs templates).

5 Skink Chiefs with AHW + a Skrox unit of 17 skinks, 2 Krox, and FC comes out to a little over 500 points. Unbuffed and running in a 6x5 formation, you put out 20 WS4, S4, I6, attacks, 4 WS2, S3, I4 attacks, and 6 WS3, S6, ASL attacks. Considering the two Beast spells you would really want to go off (Wildform and Savage Beast) the unit would chew through anything you could put in front of it. Add in the ability to march 12 inches and an average charge range of 13 inches... this could be a really fun unit to nail someone with.

samwise
30-11-2010, 08:57
You probably wouldn't have a choice in the matter, skinks are almost as fast as cav.



Actually, chiefs are pretty cheap points wise, especially since the only gear you would give them is a second hand weapon. With that load out each one is throwing out 4 WS4, S4, I6 attacks unbuffed and you would have to target each one independently in combat (+LOS vs templates).

5 Skink Chiefs with AHW + a Skrox unit of 17 skinks, 2 Krox, and FC comes out to a little over 500 points. Unbuffed and running in a 6x5 formation, you put out 20 WS4, S4, I6, attacks, 4 WS2, S3, I4 attacks, and 6 WS3, S6, ASL attacks. Considering the two Beast spells you would really want to go off (Wildform and Savage Beast) the unit would chew through anything you could put in front of it. Add in the ability to march 12 inches and an average charge range of 13 inches... this could be a really fun unit to nail someone with.

I'm reasonably sure that most opponents upon observing the placement of 5 skink characters in a unit would apply some or more magic/shooting a the unit, and skinks die in piles. The reason she skink/krox unit is good is that its cheap enough that the army will be containing more significant threats. 5 chiefs in a unit smells to me like free points, a few rounds of shooting, a good template, or a decent spell drains much effectiveness from the unit.

This did make me think of a stupid tactically ridiculous but entertaining 2000pt death star though...

500pt slann (Beasts, scroll, magic resistance, banner of minus shooting etc)
5x Saurus Scar Vets (each with HA and AHW)
60 Temple Guard (Full Command)
10 x 10 skinks

:D

The Saurus vets alone with a scrolled beasts would do 8 strength 8 attacks apiece... i'll definately be proxying something lke this next time I know I'm playing one of my friends deathstar lists (that I know will be warmachine light) just to see their face..

Vsurma
30-11-2010, 10:53
I did suffer 3 miscasts in 3 turns but throne of vines really helped me out. I am worried about purple sun and pit of shades but neither me or my opponent have been able to get off our big guns. me with dwellers and him with purple sun.

but im also mainly just playing with friends. we dont really go hyper competitive but we dont dally with just fluff lists either. And i have a feeling that if i bring a decked out slann that all of that will change.

and yeah i know that i wont be able to hang with teclis but i dont have any friends that play HE and no one around here goes magic heavy except VC and he usually balances it with fluff choices, unless he is frustrated about losing then he will usually dominate( unless i brought out my WoC)

So i think ill keep trying with the character set up i have and see how it does. If it doesnt work out then ill just add rumination to my slann and drop the oldblood to a scar vet. Thank you for all of your help

I am going to agree with samwise above.

While you have a point that your magic phase can be shut down and the more you spend there the worse it is. This is true for most armies but not so much for the slann.

the best most armies can muster is +4 DD. empire, dwarves and O&G can do this, others not so much. Even against +4 DD, if your casting 4+ spells a turn with rumination you come out ahead and the caster still starts with at least 1 more dice from teh winds of magic.

Other armies may want to minimise magic but the lizardmen are pretty much the highest casting army out there so its not really something we worry about. You can still cast against dwarves and empire!

If you really like a very combat heavy army then sure save on teh slann, but otherwise it is worth spending some money on.

I go with Slann, BSB, rumination, focus, agitation, cupped hands, bane head, magic banner, for about 500pts.

If I wanted to go really cheap I would take slann, bsb, rumination, +1 spell, but the above 500pts slann is just too good not to take. It dominates both magic phases, coupled with a lv1 with a scroll I don't fear big spells as with cogitation they rarely even work and when they do they are never done with IF so I have a scroll. Sure 300 points could buy me another saurus unit. But stopping a pit of shades can save me a saurus unit and this actually tends to mean more due to actual positioning of the units in game.

Cupped hands is almost mandetory on a slann in a TG block, even with lore of life.

That said you might have just convinced me to run a Combat lord at some point. I never really liked combat lords in this edition but combined with the lore of light it might just be fun.

Samewise your loner slann sounds REALLY vulnerable to pit of shades and purple sun as you don't get a look out sir out of a unit, you don't get to use your magic resistance or your ward save. You just die. If the enemy has either of these spells your slann is in trouble.

Unless your within 6" your javs will be taking a long range penalty.

puckus10
30-11-2010, 10:55
[The +1 armour save is nice of course but the T5 is fairly decent, you can give the scar vet armour of fortune for 2+/4++, or you can have enchanted shield for a cheap 2+ save.

[/QUOTE]

I love hearing you guys say this when I play wood elves

Vsurma
30-11-2010, 11:25
Scar vet would only get HA/scaly skin for a 3+/4++.

Generally I would say scar vets are better but the +1 armour and the +1 wound coupled with lore of life might make it better.

That said if you want a decent slann as well under 2500pts your pretty much stuck with the scarvet.

samwise
30-11-2010, 16:48
Samewise your loner slann sounds REALLY vulnerable to pit of shades and purple sun as you don't get a look out sir out of a unit, you don't get to use your magic resistance or your ward save. You just die. If the enemy has either of these spells your slann is in trouble.

Unless your within 6" your javs will be taking a long range penalty.
Aye, the post was fuelled by 7th ed thinking, with an 8th ed tournament under my belt. I think a 20+ Templeguard Bunker is the way to go, especially as life has plenty of tools to stop nasty things happening to the unit.

And you're correct about the javelins, more 7th lag. But even with 5's you're still poisoning on the 6.

Vsurma
30-11-2010, 18:43
Aye, the post was fuelled by 7th ed thinking, with an 8th ed tournament under my belt. I think a 20+ Templeguard Bunker is the way to go, especially as life has plenty of tools to stop nasty things happening to the unit.

And you're correct about the javelins, more 7th lag. But even with 5's you're still poisoning on the 6.

True, but you cannot march and shoot like skirmishers, they seem slow, especially considering their positioning. They will get in the way of your saurus blocks.

I prefer my shooting on the chameleon skinks, march, dual fire and long range still has them poisoning on 6s.

Still, they do provide those deployment advantages, though I think skirmishing skinks do it better.

Kudzu
01-12-2010, 03:20
I'm reasonably sure that most opponents upon observing the placement of 5 skink characters in a unit would apply some or more magic/shooting a the unit, and skinks die in piles. The reason she skink/krox unit is good is that its cheap enough that the army will be containing more significant threats. 5 chiefs in a unit smells to me like free points, a few rounds of shooting, a good template, or a decent spell drains much effectiveness from the unit.

This did make me think of a stupid tactically ridiculous but entertaining 2000pt death star though...

500pt slann (Beasts, scroll, magic resistance, banner of minus shooting etc)
5x Saurus Scar Vets (each with HA and AHW)
60 Temple Guard (Full Command)
10 x 10 skinks

:D

The Saurus vets alone with a scrolled beasts would do 8 strength 8 attacks apiece... i'll definately be proxying something lke this next time I know I'm playing one of my friends deathstar lists (that I know will be warmachine light) just to see their face..

Oh, it wasn't meant to be anything other than a friendly game build. Just think of the bragging rights when your skink chief deathstar eats a chosen deathstar!