PDA

View Full Version : Orcs or Beasts?! D**n you hobby bug!



RMacDeezy
18-11-2010, 02:56
Ok, so my daemons are taking the back seat for a while and i have a very meagre start to a beastmen army. the problem is...malorian and jind_singh's battle reports. now, i'm considering abandoning the beasts of chaos and starting up O&G. i love the fluff and models for both armies, i love the endless conversion and unit filler opportunities and after playing DoC, i can't wait to have HUGE units of cheap troops and equipment options. i can start both armies pretty cheaply (a friend selling off a ton of his beasts and my father-in-law has a truckload of greenskins he wants to get rid of). i realize neither army has an uber-competitive army book, but again, coming from DoC, i don't care about this. i've followed O&G battle reports on here and i've kept up to speed over on herdstone in the hopes that something will break the stalemate but to no avail. my usual tie breaker (models/army looking coolness) is useless here. what say you, denizens of the outerdark?

Ghazbad_Facestompa
18-11-2010, 04:25
Orcs iz da best! WAAAGH! Gobbos iz fine too.

Torpedo Vegas
18-11-2010, 04:35
Bah. All this is nonsense. If you are going to start a new army the obvious choice is Ogres. Great models and cheap to start. Yes, the irony in that my text is green is not lost on me.

To "properly" answer your question, I would go with Beastmen, but that is because I prefer their models. I don't much care for Fantasy orcs. They don't seem that humorous to me as apposed to how insane 40k Orkz are. Still, its all up to you, though I would round out the Beasts before starting anything. Right now I have 2 armies that need finishing And am considering starting Lizzies, but I will restrain myself untilled I have finished all the models in the remaining two armies.

Voss
18-11-2010, 04:35
i can't wait to have HUGE units of cheap troops and equipment options.

Right. So beasts are out then.


Seriously- the 'cheap' beastman units are nearly twice the cost of O&G cheap units. Basically, the Beastmen goblin equivalent is the same cost as an Orc.
I've got both armies (unfortunately so, in the case of Beastmen), and established lists at 2000 points, and my O&G army significantly outnumbers my beastmen army, even with 3 Trolls, 6 River Trolls and twice as many characters.

Jind_Singh
18-11-2010, 05:04
Nah - Greenskins are da best!!!

Easy to get your hands on (lots of people selling/trading their Skull Pass sets), great to collect, amazing to play with, and do awesome on the competivtive scene - mine have won me the last 2 tournaments straight!

Jillions of army list builds, lots of variation, you'll be happily collecting them as they hit 10,000 points AND YOU STILL will want more units!

And name an opponent who DOESN'T like facing Orcs & Goblins?!!

Oh - did I mention the amazing models?

River Trolls vs Minotaurs and Razogor...


MMMMMM - interesting!

Harwammer
18-11-2010, 09:32
Both great armies, orcs were my first love but when I came back to warhammer towards the end of 6th ed I started Boc (now called Beastmen, or 'Bm'). Both very fun armies. I'd go for orcs as they have greater variety (on the provision you can 1) cope with animosity and 2) you don't mind having a new book shuffle your army up in the next year or so).

Memnos
18-11-2010, 09:37
Right. So beasts are out then.


Seriously- the 'cheap' beastman units are nearly twice the cost of O&G cheap units. Basically, the Beastmen goblin equivalent is the same cost as an Orc.
I've got both armies (unfortunately so, in the case of Beastmen), and established lists at 2000 points, and my O&G army significantly outnumbers my beastmen army, even with 3 Trolls, 6 River Trolls and twice as many characters.

For the same cost as an Orc, however, they get: Spears, +1 movement, hatred and Ambush(Not that most people will ever use Ambush in a successful army, but...) and +1 Initiative.

Orcs get: Choppas, +1 toughness.

There's no denying that Orcs are one of the best basic troops in the game at 5 pts/model, but Beastmen can get Lore of Beasts - Which is far better than the Greenskin lore. ;)

Novrain
18-11-2010, 09:44
If you can get the models cheap then I would seriously suggest picking up both, if you can afford it. Otherwise down the line you will be kicking yourself for not grabbing cheap minis while you can!

Just shove the army you are not playing at the time into a cupboard, and then have the joy and happiness of a new army in 6 months or a year for practically nothing :)

Munin
18-11-2010, 10:30
Bah. All this is nonsense. If you are going to start a new army the obvious choice is Ogres. Great models and cheap to start. Yes, the irony in that my text is green is not lost on me.

To "properly" answer your question, I would go with Beastmen, but that is because I prefer their models. I don't much care for Fantasy orcs. They don't seem that humorous to me as apposed to how insane 40k Orkz are. Still, its all up to you, though I would round out the Beasts before starting anything. Right now I have 2 armies that need finishing And am considering starting Lizzies, but I will restrain myself untilled I have finished all the models in the remaining two armies.

Seems pretty ambivalent that you write in green and at the same time not promoting O&G. :)

mrtn
18-11-2010, 12:05
Well, my first advice is "go for the army with the coolest models", but apparently that didn't help. The greenskins are rumoured to get a new armybook soonish, so one alternative is to wait for that, but then you were after used models, so...

Personally I have had great fun with my Beastmen, and with the new rules you really want to take big units of beastmen, compared to the "monsters and minimal core" of 7th ed. "Primal Fury" is an awesome rule, "Animosity" is awful.

I see the possibilities for conversions as bigger for beastmen, since you can make a lot of mutations and weird creatures. Horsegors, piggors, doggors, tentacles, extra arms... Sure, you can make happy orcs and sad orcs and fighting orcs, but they'll still just be green orcs at the end of the day.
I'm happy as a pig(man) in mud, tinkering away on my conversions of gors and bestigors. :)

Torpedo Vegas
18-11-2010, 16:20
Seems pretty ambivalent that you write in green and at the same time not promoting O&G. :)
Its my incredibly clever attempt at subliminal messaging :shifty:

Braad
18-11-2010, 16:58
Seems pretty ambivalent that you write in green and at the same time not promoting O&G. :)

Was thinking the same thing :p

Orcs and gobbo's is ofcourse the right choice to make, now! But I also think beastmen are pretty cool.

But if big, big units and lots of variety are your wishes, then none but a tide of green can make you happier.

Malorian
18-11-2010, 17:00
Whenever greenskins is an option I have to vote for them :)

decker_cky
18-11-2010, 18:03
I've had a ton of fun with Beastmen...AND I beat Jind's Orcs so obviously beastmen is the way to go (only losing the tournament on a tie-breaker because I'm a jerk). ;)

Have you read both books? Sounds like you're pretty close on the two of them. Maybe sit down with the books and from there work out which book you like better.


Whenever greenskins is an option I have to vote for them :)


Which army should he not play: Greenskins or Beastmen? ;)

bluemage
18-11-2010, 18:21
Play the original army. Beastmen are just brown orcs. On a more serious note, O&G are rumored to be getting a new book sometime between March and May. So you might want to consider waiting to start O&G until you get to look at the new book.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
18-11-2010, 18:23
Go fer da greeniez!:D
We've got anything the beasties got... No wait, we don't have pumba or angus cattle with gws.. We do have snotlings, the funniest guys on this side of the old world:)

decker_cky
18-11-2010, 18:34
Beastmen are just brown orcs.

:rolleyes:

Common misconception. The armies play nothing alike, though they do have similar appearances in some ways.

RTGamer
18-11-2010, 18:37
The ONLY similarity is that they have mixed base infantry.... And they raid the empire on a regular basis (but who doesn't?)

My vote is Beastmen... If you really want you can even paint them green! Oh and you get to do crazy conversions... The sky is really the limit with conversions.

Harwammer
18-11-2010, 19:04
Whenever greenskins is an option I have to vote for them :)


Which army should he not play: Greenskins or Beastmen? ;)

You know with orcy logic the vote still would be green :P

mrtn
18-11-2010, 21:21
Beastmen are just brown orcs.And lizardmen are just blue orcs, the Empire are just pink orcs, and tomb kings are just dead orcs.


Go fer da greeniez!:D
We've got anything the beasties got... No wait, we don't have pumba or angus cattle with gws.. We do have snotlings, the funniest guys on this side of the old world:)
You don't have a lot of infantry that re-roll hits (and not just the first turn either) with about 97% chance. :)

scarletsquig
19-11-2010, 00:23
I'm gonna go ahead and recommend beastmen... they're really not so bad, especially in 8th edition, they can be brutal with ambushing and hordes of ungor backed up with gor and bestigor.. the basic units of the army are really good, and the ones that GW haven't released models for are pants anyway (basically, beastmen lists ignore their entire rare section). You have access to dirt cheap hard cover (ungor raiders and hounds) to protect your killier units, good simple magic buffs (signature lore of beasts spell is great, and there's even a cheap "1 turn only" stormbanner-type item in the magic items to take the edge off of any template weapon spam you might run into.

Only reason people don't realise how much of a threat the army is.. is because you don't see many people playing it. The only really dumb thing about the list design is the rare section.

Another thing I like is that, the contents of the battalion are all useful, powerful choices, buying 3 battalion boxes results in a pretty brutal army, with 30 bestigor, 2 units of 30 gor,and 3 small units of ungor raiders to use as mobile hard cover. All you need on top of that is to add characters, chariots and special choices to taste (the special choices are all really good) and you're done.

It's also still quite easy to get a ton of the perfectly good 6th edition gor/ungor models for dirt cheap on ebay, since the army is really not very popular at all.

bluemage
19-11-2010, 00:55
Listen when I started warhammer fantasy 6th ed was new and most armies were using the ravening hordes list. And based on that ravening hordes list, beastmen really were just brown orcs.

The real difference now is that O&G have a lot of fun fluff and wacky units. The Beastmen book is all about poo. One important thing to keep in mind is that GW doesn't give the BM army as much support as they do O&G.

mrtn
19-11-2010, 02:56
Another thing I like is that, the contents of the battalion are all useful, powerful choices, buying 3 battalion boxes results in a pretty brutal army, with 30 bestigor, 2 units of 30 gor,and 3 small units of ungor raiders to use as mobile hard cover. All you need on top of that is to add characters, chariots and special choices to taste (the special choices are all really good) and you're done.If you do something similar, buy the 3 battalions, convert two bestigors to a beastlord and a BSB, and convert two gors to bray shamans (a quite easy conversion, my first ever conversion with greenstuff was doing this with the old beastherd box), give them some good items and you have a very good 1750 points army. :yes:
(Personally I'd make an ungor herd out of 20 or so of the ungors, and not make them all skirmishers.)

Harwammer
19-11-2010, 07:58
You don't have a lot of infantry that re-roll hits (and not just the first turn either) with about 97% chance. :)

True, but there is the Waaaagh spell, bash em lads and night goblins hatred of dwarfs.

Another thing to consider is fluff-wise Beastmen and daemons could go quite well together in a Chaos Horde army.

The Blue Guy
19-11-2010, 08:19
Whenever greenskins is an option I have to vote for them :)+1 Malorian sums it up pretty well.

Basically, O&G players are the blonds of the Warhammer world – we just have more fun!

Lorcryst
19-11-2010, 16:12
Tricky question, that.

I have both books, and both armies are interesting ... my point of view, tough :

Beastmens can do a very solid, very reliable army list, have their own unique style of play (Ambush) and nice models too (with a few exceptions).

O&Gs can be very solid too, but are not reliable (Animosity), great models, and tons of fun if you are in the mindset of not really minding if you loose.

All in all, I'd choose the greenies, I have more fun with them than with my beasties, but to each their own ...

RMacDeezy
19-11-2010, 16:13
thanks for all the replies guys, some great info and suggestions. i have decided to go with...(drum roll)...both. I'm going to get both armies while the gettin's good. i sincerely believe that both armies will be a blast. problem is, i'll have to give up buying booze for the holidays in order to buy both armies. oh well, with all we give up for our little men, what's a few weeks without the craythur eh?

RMacDeezy
19-11-2010, 16:16
by the way, do the greenskins have their own dedicated forums like herdstone or thedaemoniclegion? if they do, i'll need to head over there to begin planning. thanks again gents

mrtn
19-11-2010, 16:23
by the way, do the greenskins have their own dedicated forums like herdstone or thedaemoniclegion? if they do, i'll need to head over there to begin planning. thanks again gents

Yes, do a search for "Da Warpath".

Have fun with your new toy soldiers. :)

Lorcryst
19-11-2010, 16:23
Yes, the greenies have their dedicated forum : Da Warpath (http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?act=idx)

Harwammer
19-11-2010, 19:22
Da Warpath is one of my fave army specific forums. It's community reflects well on the OnG fanbase. A lot less serious than many forums.

RMacDeezy
19-11-2010, 20:42
i agree, harwammer, i jumped over there for a little bit today and it is great. alot of very good advice and the members are very humorous. a very-happy-go-lucky forum its great