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bishamon_o
18-11-2010, 21:54
hello everyone,

I play WOC as my regular fantasy army, and since the new edition of warhammer, i have made adjustments to my army.

one of those adjustments is going to be the removal of all my chaos hound units, in all the games ive played i havent ben able to find a good use for them.

1. anti missile shield for expensive units
with the new rules for true LOS, most of the time they can just shoot over my chaos hounds, as the other units are still clearly visible behind my chaos hounds.
( yeah it counts as shooting into hard cover, but with all those weapons not needing to roll to hit, skaven ratling gun, organ gun, all magic its not exactly what im looking for)

2. march blockers
as units can now ignore them by passing a leadership test this doesnt work as good as it used to.

3. charge bait
a favored tactic of mine was to get the enemy to charge the hounds by placing them in an angle to the enemy unit, and then charging them in the flank with another unit in my turn. with the fact they can make a reform after combat now, this tactic now also doesnt work.

in short i dont really know what purpose they really serve in a chaos army, and as my army is mostly strained for points as it is ( i like to include lost of cool stuff :) ) im thinking of not including them anymore?

is there something i am missing? or are they as usesless as i think they are?

shakedown47
18-11-2010, 21:59
Outside of deployment stallers I don't really field them anymore. I used my 10 hounds as unit fillers to bulk out both of my 50-man marauder blocks.

logan054
18-11-2010, 22:04
Chaos hounds are still a great unit, you have to keep in mind they are only 6pts a model, still you can guard a flank of your unit with them just by moving them up and angling them so the enemy unit will not overrun into your unit. you can deploy them 3x2 so they can nip through small gaps and attack lone mages and warmachine hunt, they are a great unit to draw fire away from you other units (yes for some reason people seem to shoot these over my chaos warriors, I really don't mind ;) ).

Korraz
18-11-2010, 22:15
Ratling needs to hit now. Organ Gun Style is a dying race. Just saying.

puckus10
18-11-2010, 22:52
There purpose is to tie up shooty units in closecombat

logan054
18-11-2010, 22:56
Yes, that is the only use they have, they are not at all versatile or anything :rolleyes: I cant see them being good against a unit of archers considering low leadership, low T, no save.

Snake1311
18-11-2010, 23:52
If you know what you're doing with them, the disruption they cause is worth way more than the measly 30 pts per unit, even if they don't kill anything themselves.

- They've got swiftstrider, so you can just run them with your infantry blocks and add them in combat to be sure you can chase the enemy down after winning

- You can just run them down one flank (if its left relatively free of enemy fast units). If the enemy ignores them, circle round and get your combats some free comabt res from flank and rear charges. If anything shoots at them - well, then they've 'tanked' their worth in points

- The things you said. OK, LoS and Marchblock not so much, but if an enemy unit chases them and doesnt catch them they don't get to reform

Dreadgrass
18-11-2010, 23:55
They seem to need multiple units to accomplish there goals now, it takes 2-3 units of hounds to tie up a unit, still... 90pts to remove the enemies flanking/ hammer unit from the equation seems a good tradeoff...

What I'm meaning is:

Opponent turn 1: enemy advances. Your turn, park the dogs
Enemy turn 2: charge, wipeout, reform. Your turn, park 2nd unit of dogs
Enemy turn 3: charge, wipeout, reform. Your turn, park 3rd unit of dogs
Enemy turn 4: charge, wipeout, reform.
Enemy turn 5: Start the long trip to the battlelines
Enemy turn 6: unit might make it into combat but the battle should be pretty much won, you could also include another dog unit to tie it up for the whole game.

Avian
19-11-2010, 05:48
3. charge bait
a favored tactic of mine was to get the enemy to charge the hounds by placing them in an angle to the enemy unit, and then charging them in the flank with another unit in my turn. with the fact they can make a reform after combat now, this tactic now also doesnt work.
That's not actually true. Disregarding that frenzied units can't reform after combat, the main point now is to get the enemy unit into a position they'd rather not be in as well as keeping them up for a turn. For example, last battle I put my Warhounds in the way of a unit of White Lions, so that they couldn't charge the flank of my general's unit of Warriors. Because of their angle, they couldn't overrun into my unit and while they could reform afterwards, I'd bought myself plenty of time to deal with the Swordmasters.

Another positive here is that the Ld 5 Warhounds don't have to risk running away due to a failed Fear test when charged.

Back in 7th edition, I'd usually field 3x 5 Warhounds. At the start of 8th edition I was reducing my number of units and at one point I didn't field any, but now I'm back up to 3.

Kharnathe
19-11-2010, 08:49
bit of a hijack, i saw someone talking about taking a massive unit of hounds to deliver a character on a juggernaut. is this possible?

Eta
19-11-2010, 11:56
They seem to need multiple units to accomplish there goals now, it takes 2-3 units of hounds to tie up a unit, still... 90pts to remove the enemies flanking/ hammer unit from the equation seems a good tradeoff...

What I'm meaning is:

Opponent turn 1: enemy advances. Your turn, park the dogs
Enemy turn 2: charge, wipeout, reform. Your turn, park 2nd unit of dogs
Enemy turn 3: charge, wipeout, reform. Your turn, park 3rd unit of dogs
Enemy turn 4: charge, wipeout, reform.
Enemy turn 5: Start the long trip to the battlelines
Enemy turn 6: unit might make it into combat but the battle should be pretty much won, you could also include another dog unit to tie it up for the whole game.

Why don't you simply flee with the hounds?

GreySeerZ
19-11-2010, 12:19
...they are a great unit to draw fire away from you other units (yes for some reason people seem to shoot these over my chaos warriors, I really don't mind ;) ).

THIS. I have definitely used hounds to stall and redirect charges with much success, but the sheer fear they cause to enemy ranged units is mind bottling. Have my hounds ever survived a battle? or inflicted damage? No, definitely not. But they have been shot by (over the last 10 or so battles) HE archers, jezails (not targeting my knights...), hellcannons, flamers, grudgethrowers, and yes...even spells.

I really think non-WoC players have no idea how much they cost. They are rediculously inexpensive, and if losing an entire unit that costs 30 pts possibly saves 5/6 warriors from dying, I will run them every single battle. haha

SkawtheFalconer
19-11-2010, 14:34
I'm contemplating giving them poisoned attacks and making them warmachine hunters, although probably only in a pretty big game, as poison makes them a bit pricey.

SevenSins
19-11-2010, 22:17
I'm contemplating giving them poisoned attacks and making them warmachine hunters, although probably only in a pretty big game, as poison makes them a bit pricey.

why bother? they are fighting T3-4 crew not the T7 machine. Keep them cheap and cheerfull :)

logan054
19-11-2010, 22:19
THIS. I have definitely used hounds to stall and redirect charges with much success, but the sheer fear they cause to enemy ranged units is mind bottling. Have my hounds ever survived a battle? or inflicted damage? No, definitely not. But they have been shot by (over the last 10 or so battles) HE archers, jezails (not targeting my knights...), hellcannons, flamers, grudgethrowers, and yes...even spells.

I really think non-WoC players have no idea how much they cost. They are rediculously inexpensive, and if losing an entire unit that costs 30 pts possibly saves 5/6 warriors from dying, I will run them every single battle. haha

Moral of the story is Chaos hounds rock, if you don't have some in your list go change you list! I found when using my old HoC mono khorne that hounds happened to be on of the few units that added some tactical thinking to the list :)

Harfaern
20-11-2010, 19:09
At 2000 points, I use my 3x5 hounds in the deployment phase. They are my first units to be deployed; I always deploy them at the center. Then I deploy my 2 Hellcannons behind them.

Meanwhile, the opponent has deployed 5 (or 6) units, showing me a hint of his battle plan. Now I can deploy the core of my army (chaos warriors blocks, marauders blocks, knights, etc.) at the most favourable side (weak units, less shooting, more cover,...whatever), denying completely the other.

This is my use for the hounds.

Narcissus
25-11-2010, 06:16
If nothing else, keep them at the back and use them to deny table quarters at the end of the game. 25 points for a table quarter. You get a free deployment drop and something fast to potentially move around and annoy the enemy and threaten lone characters with.

Mine never really survive until the end of the game as my opponents always seem to like shooting them for the first turn or two.

Althwen
25-11-2010, 07:46
I don't use mine anymore. I tend to go for 5 marauder horsemen with flails instead. That's always a nasty surprise to anybody's flank...except maybe white lions and swordmasters :S

Eltharil
25-11-2010, 10:11
5 horsemen with flails and musician cost about 3x5 chaos hounds and are easy to kill too, do the same job (except the poor flanking support).
The lowest cost of hounds vs horsemen cost give me more point to spend somewhere else.
That's why i think they are better.

theorox
25-11-2010, 10:20
If nothing else, keep them at the back and use them to deny table quarters at the end of the game. 25 points for a table quarter.

Ehhr, what tablequarter? :confused:

Theo

Althwen
25-11-2010, 10:33
5 horsemen with flails and musician cost about 3x5 chaos hounds and are easy to kill too, do the same job (except the poor flanking support).
The lowest cost of hounds vs horsemen cost give me more point to spend somewhere else.
That's why i think they are better.

Horsemen outperform hounds in combat, especially with flails. And not only that, you can put a fare share of confidence in them not running away from the first panick test. Plus, giving them light armour provides them with some durability. I think that's 80pts well spent. Chuck a musician in there for 6 and you've got yourself a unit that is discounted by most opponents when it comes to magic (they tend to target my warriors and knights) and can still hold their own against most small targets. But I guess it comes down to preference.

decker_cky
25-11-2010, 17:47
That's not actually true. Disregarding that frenzied units can't reform after combat, the main point now is to get the enemy unit into a position they'd rather not be in as well as keeping them up for a turn. For example, last battle I put my Warhounds in the way of a unit of White Lions, so that they couldn't charge the flank of my general's unit of Warriors. Because of their angle, they couldn't overrun into my unit and while they could reform afterwards, I'd bought myself plenty of time to deal with the Swordmasters.

Another positive here is that the Ld 5 Warhounds don't have to risk running away due to a failed Fear test when charged.

Back in 7th edition, I'd usually field 3x 5 Warhounds. At the start of 8th edition I was reducing my number of units and at one point I didn't field any, but now I'm back up to 3.

This is the reason Warriors should always have Warhounds, and for the companion reason that it means you have something cheap to counter enemies trying to do the same thing to you (particularly if your chaos has lots of frenzy).

When I face WoC armies without several cheap units, I know my job will be a lot easier with my beastmen since I'll be dictating the charges I want. When there's hounds to run counter-harassment, my job is a lot harder.


I don't use mine anymore. I tend to go for 5 marauder horsemen with flails instead. That's always a nasty surprise to anybody's flank...except maybe white lions and swordmasters :S

How hounds do in someone's flank is immaterial to how hounds perform. Horsemen are decent flankers, but that has nothing to do with a hound's job. Hounds need to die to do their job.


Horsemen outperform hounds in combat, especially with flails. And not only that, you can put a fare share of confidence in them not running away from the first panick test. Plus, giving them light armour provides them with some durability. I think that's 80pts well spent. Chuck a musician in there for 6 and you've got yourself a unit that is discounted by most opponents when it comes to magic (they tend to target my warriors and knights) and can still hold their own against most small targets. But I guess it comes down to preference.

Who cares? Hounds job is to die in combat. They generally will be in the general's leadership bubble until they run forward to block up the battle line, and in dying let your warriors, knights and marauders dictate charges.

Havock
25-11-2010, 23:41
Less crucial right now but great point fillers. Also a great 'guard' for your hellcannon so it doesn't drive straight into the enemy line.

Lord_Elric
26-11-2010, 00:25
At 6 ppionts a model there brilliant flankers take 12 of them in 3 ranks 5-5-2 and use them as flankers you can afford to lose 2 of them and still disrupt your opponents ranks if you can hex the enemie unit whilst fighting to the front your golden too

at most theyll recieve 6 models attacks back and your boosting combat by 1 and removing rank bonus with a bit of luck (admittedly my friend who does this uses VC direwolves which i belive are fast cavalry though im not sure so tht may make a difference)

Eta
26-11-2010, 05:37
at most theyll recieve 6 models attacks back and your boosting combat by 1 and removing rank bonus with a bit of luck (admittedly my friend who does this uses VC direwolves which i belive are fast cavalry though im not sure so tht may make a difference)

They are fast cavalry and have more movement. Makes the job for Dire Wolves easier to accomplish.