PDA

View Full Version : Necrons vs Khorne



Sanguis Dominus
19-11-2010, 00:54
Has anyone else ever thought about what would happen in "reality" if Khorne fought the Necrons?

I think to represent this on the tabletop, a Khorne army should be forced to ignore the 'crons and attack themselves.

DuskRaider
19-11-2010, 01:10
What are you talking about?

Mannimarco
19-11-2010, 01:11
.........why?

Just because they dont bleed and phase out when you kill them wont stop a follower of Khorne from smacking it in the face with a chainaxe given the opportunity.

The World Eaters didnt get to where they are today by thinking "hmm they are shooting at us but are quite a distance away, Ill just hit the other berserker standing next to me".

Sanguis Dominus
19-11-2010, 01:20
But the world Eaters knew that they could make the people shooting at them bleed.

If they wanted to appease Khorne, and spill as much blood as possible on the battlefield, fighting to kill the necrons would be pretty fruitless unless they lost. The best way to spill the most blood would be to kill eachother. :p

Mannimarco
19-11-2010, 01:32
ah ok they see me lolin it is then.

Surely the best way for any follower of Slannesh to fight is to stand there in the open without any cover and just enjoy the sensations of the the enemy shooting them. ;)

You wouldnt happen to be a necron player who just got beat by a Khornate army would you?

Sanguis Dominus
19-11-2010, 01:38
Slaaneshi followers delight in inflicting pain, not just suffering it. :p

I do play Necrons (Though, they've gone back into hibernation 'till 5th ed codex. And plastic Immortals.), but I've never played it against a Khorne army.

Or a Chaos army, come to think of it.

nagash66
19-11-2010, 01:47
Slaaneshi followers delight in inflicting pain, not just suffering it. :p



Well they delight in any form of pleasure or strong emotion....pain being one such strong emotion :p.

Mannimarco
19-11-2010, 01:53
Pain isnt an emotion, its a sensation.

But yeah they like them some pain, look to Lucius who carved his own face up, look to Fabulous Bill who rewired the EC so that every sensation causes pleasure to them.

whats the point of this again.....followers of Khorne would either kill each other or just let the necrons kill them because theres no point in killing somthing that doesnt bleed?

Sanguis Dominus
19-11-2010, 02:26
Khorne doesn't get their blood, 'cause they don't have any.
Khorne doesn't get their "skulls" because they phase out.
Khorne doesn't get their souls, again, because they phase out.

Even if Khorne completely annihilated them without suffering a single casualty, as far as tey'd be concerned, they'd've lost.

They can give Khorne all of that simply by killing eachother or letting the Necrons kill them. :D

shaso_iceborn
19-11-2010, 02:32
Khorne doesn't get their blood, 'cause they don't have any.
Khorne doesn't get their "skulls" because they phase out.
Khorne doesn't get their souls, again, because they phase out.

Even if Khorne completely annihilated them without suffering a single casualty, as far as tey'd be concerned, they'd've lost.

They can give Khorne all of that simply by killing eachother or letting the Necrons kill them. :D

I thought Guass weapons stripped atoms by the molecule, if this is true there's no blood and Khorne kills necrons because they interrupt the flow of blood.

Garven Dreis
19-11-2010, 02:33
He's the Chaos God of Violence. Khorne never used to be so one dimensional like he is now. He'd just revel in the battle. Case closed.

MarshallSam
19-11-2010, 02:34
Huh, funny how the chaos trophy racks have Necron heads on them. Same with the metal daemon prince. As for 'blood' I think any vital fluid will do fine. Necrons may not have blood but the probably have oil or antifreeze or something to keep their parts moving.

daemonicemission
19-11-2010, 03:07
This thread is incredibly space-racist. Necrons bleed the same as any...no, wait. Never mind.

Deaf Leaper
19-11-2010, 03:50
Reality has no place in a 40k discussion.

Silent_Moebius
19-11-2010, 05:46
Huh, funny how the chaos trophy racks have Necron heads on them. Same with the metal daemon prince.

*harhar*
They only phase out, when they are really outnumbered. Otherwise, they only fall to ground. And there is your chance of getting a skull ;)

Draconis
19-11-2010, 05:58
.........why?

Just because they dont bleed and phase out when you kill them wont stop a follower of Khorne from smacking it in the face with a chainaxe given the opportunity.

The World Eaters didnt get to where they are today by thinking "hmm they are shooting at us but are quite a distance away, Ill just hit the other berserker standing next to me".

Actually, thats exactly what happened when they took on the Black Templar who kept falling back. They got tired of chasing them and started killing each other.

Draconis
19-11-2010, 06:01
*harhar*
They only phase out, when they are really outnumbered. Otherwise, they only fall to ground. And there is your chance of getting a skull ;)

And when a cron dies, it phases out back to their factory. In the cron codex, theres one of some SM hitting one with a tracker, then destroying it so when it phased out, they followed it back to its craft world and then destroyed the tomb.

totgeboren
19-11-2010, 06:03
This belongs more in the background section imo, but the followers of chaos are like any other militant religious group out there.
They want to spread the faith. You can do that in two ways, either by converting others, increasing the number of followers you have compared to others, or if the others wont convert, you kill them, thereby reducing the followers of other gods.

Since the temple of Khorne is the battlefield, and the Necrons can not be converted, the only logical way for Khornites to spread the love is by killing all the Necrons.

Also, Necrons have a tendency to kill lots of people, and in the eyes of the Khornies, that's their job!

They took er jubs!

spiderman5z
19-11-2010, 06:15
Khorne is happy every time there's rage and killing of any kind. So it doesn't matter who his followers kill as long as his followers are killing stuff and being all angry and crazy.

mob16151
19-11-2010, 13:01
Also, Necrons have a tendency to kill lots of people, and in the eyes of the Khornies, that's their job!

They took er jubs!

And I doubt the crons space passports could stand up to any government scrutiny. lol

AndrewGPaul
19-11-2010, 13:11
Khorne never used to be so one dimensional like he is now.


As for 'blood' I think any vital fluid will do fine.

I don't think it's the writers' fault that people take "Blood for the Blood God" so painfully literally. :)

Night Bearer
19-11-2010, 14:54
This thread is incredibly space-racist. Necrons bleed the same as any...no, wait. Never mind.
Oil for the Blood God! Coolant for Lord Khorne!! Kharberzerkerators for the Skull Throne!!!

But seriously, why has no one in the 40k-verse realized that the best defense against Khornate forces would be to release millions of hydras on some backwater planet no one cares about and then advertise it heavily?

What's this? A creature with multiple skulls AND THE ABILITY TO GROW NEW ONES AS THEY'RE HACKED OFF?!!?!??? I CAN HAZ SKULLZ??? BLARGHGHGHGH!!!!!!

Also, would a zombie Berzerker just shamble around mumbling "Skullzzz"?

Cheeslord
19-11-2010, 16:11
I think its unlikely Khorne (or really any of the Chaos gods except Tzeentch) would go out of their way to attack Necrons for attacking the Necrons sake. They dont have any souls or emotions to feast upon (or at least neglegible amounts, certainly among the rank and file Necrons) and have no psychic presence in the warp to attract Chaos attention.

More likely they would fight with Necrons over who got to destroy the worlds teeming with life. In some ways, ultimately, Chaos would have to defend humanity against the Necron threat (if it got really big), as if the necrons wipe out all life there would be nothing to sustain Chaos.

Of course in game terms if Khorne fought the Necrons, most probable outcome = necron phase out on turn 2.

Mark.

Jonny_N
19-11-2010, 21:33
Khorne also revels in the infliction of violence. Khorne will be happy with the t-800 bashing session!

loveless
19-11-2010, 21:44
Well, given that the Necrons have a tendency to build anti-Warp tech wherever the heck the feel like it, that seems like a pretty good reason for any of the Chaos gods to have a go at them.

TheLaughingGod
19-11-2010, 23:41
He's the Chaos God of Violence. Khorne never used to be so one dimensional like he is now. He'd just revel in the battle. Case closed.

Khorne has never changed. There was never a time where he was anything other than the god of slaughter and blood. The whole "martial honor and prowess" thing is a fanon addition.

madd0ct0r
20-11-2010, 01:12
Yes and No.

Khorne despises cowards, and those who die a cowards death are doomed to labour as slaves in his furnace.

The martial code and warrior prowess, duelling ect, is a very common step for an unwitting warrior on the path to complete bloodlust. It is not the only path, but certainly one of the most common. It's certainly an aspect of Khorne's worshipers that is reflected in their god.

Khorne =/= Khaine, but there are undoubted similarities. Before the fall Khaine himself was an enemy of the Eldar, threatening to drag them down through the same path to rage filled killers.

'The blood must flow' aspect of Khorne's Bezerkers is an expression of their complete devotion to him. A desire and rage that drives them further then their own sense of preservation. Those who retain the knowledge of this, but accept their deaths as 'necessary' anyway are the most tragic figures of his realm.

Sanguis Dominus
20-11-2010, 01:55
Of course in game terms if Khorne fought the Necrons, most probable outcome = necron phase out on turn 2.

Mark.

Unlikely.

Consider that Khorne's mobility (Getting berzerkers into CC as fast as possible) generally comes from transport.

Gauss could take out the transport before it reached them, that'd leave the 'zerkers half way across the board, with a hail of gauss fire raining on them and nothing really worth shooting back. Most would be dead before they even got a chance at CC. Even an immobilised transport would be the end of the 'zerkers unit inside.

Then give them the benefit of the doubt, a squad makes it near enough to a 'cron unit to get into CC (Wouldn't happen at all with any destroyers, that unit could easily just zap itself to the nearest monolith and walk out.

'Crons suck at CC, but getting into CC with them isn't easy. You'd be relying completely on 1) your transport not getting gaussed. 2) Your raptors, which the destroyers would make short work of. 3) the shoot-yness of the rest of your amry, but trying to outshoot 'crons is never a good idea.

TheLaughingGod
20-11-2010, 02:37
Unlikely.

Consider that Khorne's mobility (Getting berzerkers into CC as fast as possible) generally comes from transport.

Gauss could take out the transport before it reached them, that'd leave the 'zerkers half way across the board, with a hail of gauss fire raining on them and nothing really worth shooting back. Most would be dead before they even got a chance at CC. Even an immobilised transport would be the end of the 'zerkers unit inside.

Then give them the benefit of the doubt, a squad makes it near enough to a 'cron unit to get into CC (Wouldn't happen at all with any destroyers, that unit could easily just zap itself to the nearest monolith and walk out.

'Crons suck at CC, but getting into CC with them isn't easy. You'd be relying completely on 1) your transport not getting gaussed. 2) Your raptors, which the destroyers would make short work of. 3) the shoot-yness of the rest of your amry, but trying to outshoot 'crons is never a good idea.

Are we talking fluff or game, because in case you haven't noticed Mech got better, gauss got worse and Necrons fold in CC faster than superman on laundry day.

Sanguis Dominus
20-11-2010, 09:28
Game.

I'd direct my H. Destroyers and as much fire as possible at their transports.

Yeah, vehicles are better and gauss can't get penetrating hits anymore, but I've got 50 Warriors, that's 50 shots at transport, all I need is to roll a 3+, then a 6 and the another 6, not easy, but not impossible, and that transport is immobilised and useless for a CC orientated Khorne army. Failing that, rolling a 3+, a 6 and a 4 will delay the transport for another turn, giving me another chance. I've done it with land raiders full of assault termie squads, before, as well as with wave serpents and falcons filled with banshees. :p

Even then, most transports are only front armour 10 or 11, so with 2 units of 4 Destroyers, and 2 H. Destroyers there's a very good chance none of them will make it to my army fast enough to get into combat.

Say they do get close enough to get into CC, though, Destroyer Lords with Warscythes and C'Tan could probably hold their own against 'zerkers.

Mannimarco
20-11-2010, 12:47
We're now in the background forum: game mechanics have no place here.

Game wise a fully Khornate army will brutalise the Necrons: assault, win, sweep, repeat until phase out. You might get lucky and delay the transports but as soon as they hit home your going to die.

Fluff wise: the necrons are going to win hands down: the basic gauss weapon is horrific and a ctan is a god remember, the old story about cypher and a squad of CSMs fighting the necrons springs to mind: every time the ctan brought his hand down another marine died

Sanguis Dominus
20-11-2010, 13:01
The "assault" part is where you'd fail.

Necrons get shredded like paper in assault, but getting into assault with them isn't easy. They've got multiple methoods of teleporting around the board, S6 Heavy 3 gauss cannons, which although heavy, can still move 12" and fire if they're on Destroyers, and if you wanted to try assaulting a Nightbringer... well... good luck.

Also, all I need to do is immobilise the transports, then you're moving 6" a turn towards the crons, with nothing to shoot back.

Fluff-wise, the Necrons wipe the floor with everything, and chances are there's 1000s more types of necrons still asleep, and 'cause they're the only race that can leave the galaxy 40k is set in and head to another galaxy, chances are the 40k galaxy is just a tiny fraction of their vast "empire". It's quite likely that the Necrons could inhabit hundereds, or possibly even thousands more galaxies, in countless different forms and shapes.

eyescrossed
20-11-2010, 13:03
Sanguis Dominus, you get around 5 glancing hits from those 50 shots. Wow. How many points were those 50 Warriors, again?

Also, please don't try to detract from the background discussion with Necron fanboyism. Seriously, no offense, but you're speaking as if Necrons don't have the worst codex in the game currently.

Mannimarco
20-11-2010, 13:23
And we're back to talking game mechanics.

Your absolutely right, I have no intentions of taking on the nightbringer although if your taking him and the mandatory monolith (seriously everybody has at least 1 lith for obvious reasons) then your points are going to start running low. Multi monolith ctan led necron armies tend not to have that many necrons which makes it so much easier to phase out. If you put down nightbringer and 50 warriors and however many destroyers/heavy destroyers im going to want to see your list. This stuff isnt free and unless we are playing a pretty big game indeed then your not having all that. Even if it is a big game and you can include all of that I can guarantee you the khornate army will not just be zerks in rhinos.

Perhaps Id take my blood slaughterers, 3+d3 s10 attacks each and you cant stun or imobilise them? Anything I point them at will die, Im pretty sure they could take a chunk out of your nightbringer if needed but their target would be the monolith.

Maybe my army is led by zhufor and he will be deep striking in with a large termy retinue armed to the teeth with all kinds of firepower. Maybe I dont deepstrike them in, maybe I just deploy them as normal. Now you have a unit that will kill anything it touches but is also carrying 2 reaper autocannons (not brilliant weapons but I can and will shoot back at you from long range). Thats not to mention the basic CSM squads which are often seen in mono khorne armies, people will often take this (with or without the icon) just so they get bolters and access to heavy weapons/special weapons.

Point being that on the table even a pure khornate army can (and probably will) be more than zerks in rhinos and thats before I start taking things like obliterators that whilst they are not khornate its still a very common choice for people who claim to take pure mono god armies.

Your mistake is assuming that if you are fighting a khornate army on the table it will a bunch of berserkers in rhinos and nothing more.

You are correct that fluff wise the necrons will wipe the floor with everything, this is of course assuming it is actually a tomb world and not just a fleet harvesting a planet. Even if it is a tomb world it still takes time for the tomb to come fully online. You would not see vast legions of necrons popping up like daisies as soon as that first Chaos soldier sets foot on the planet.

Can you please cite a reference to the necrons being able to leave the 40k galaxy and set up empires in other galaxies? They may have their inertia less drives powered by the elements "plotdeviceonium" and "handwavium" and be capable of FTL travel but this would still take a pretty long time to cross the gulf between 1 galaxy and another. This only proves they have really good tech and yes while this is a factor it still doesnt make them invulnerable, not even close. Its also just as likely that there are local gods in these other galaxies with followers which are vastly superior to the followers of the Chaos gods. Point being we havnt been told there isnt so there just might be. Of course its also plausible that the nids ate all the other galaxies surrounding our one so theres no point in the genocidal necrons going out there to begin with.

eyescrossed
20-11-2010, 13:31
Also, this is a fun, pure World Eaters list I did a few months ago. I think it could still beat your Necrons, to be honest:

HQ: Khârn the Betrayer – 165

Khorne Daemon Prince with Wings – 140

Troops: 8 Berzerkers with a Plasma pistol and Champion with Powerfist – 223

8 Berzerkers with a Plasma pistol and Champion with Powerfist – 223

8 Berzerkers with a Champion with Powerfist – 208

Transport: Rhino with Extra Armour – 50

8 Berzerkers with a Champion with Powerfist – 208

Transport: Rhino with Extra Armour – 50

Heavy Support: Land Raider with Extra Armour – 235

Land Raider with Extra Armour – 235

1747 points


On-topic, what Chaos forces do you think would enjoy fighting Necrons the most? Personally, I think Tzeentchian forces.

spetswalshe
20-11-2010, 14:53
I don't think it's the writers' fault that people take "Blood for the Blood God" so painfully literally. :)

Hear, hear. If there's fighting going on he's all for it. Killing a tank is good for a laugh regardless of if it's being driven by an exsanguinated servitor or a fat guy full of juice. It's like saying that if it doesn't have an orifice, Slaanesh isn't interested.


I think its unlikely Khorne (or really any of the Chaos gods except Tzeentch) would go out of their way to attack Necrons for attacking the Necrons sake.

Naturally, though, the actual gods probably wouldn't consider veering away from the Grand Plan to kill those filthy loyalists once and for all mid-charge in order to kill/torture/mutate/infect a bunch of hapless peasants to be all that great an idea either - fortunately the armies of Chaos are not, as a rule, run by the actual Gods themselves.

I bet Khorne starts pulling his hair out every time his soldiers start infighting mid-battle because they don't believe enough killing is going on.

"THEY'RE OVER THERE YOU WITLESS MUTANTS! YOU CAN DO THIS AFTERWARDS!"


On-topic, what Chaos forces do you think would enjoy fighting Necrons the most? Personally, I think Tzeentchian forces.

They'd all get a kick out of it; I'd probably say Khornates would enjoy it the most, because any fight's a good 'un. Slaaneshi boys enjoys a ruckus too and could probably find some inventive ways to mess with the Necrons (or, alternatively, just enjoy the beauty of killing a highly-evolved technological marvel, particularly since you can see your own reflection in them if you give them a buff before the deathblow). Nurglites might enjoy the challenge of spreading the love through non-biological means, and the generally grim nature of a Necron means they'll enjoy trying to put a smile on their faces. Tzeentch lads wouldn't really enjoy it as such, I don't think - more a means to an end, though obviously they'd stand to gain most from the encounter.

Retribution
20-11-2010, 15:17
We're now in the background forum: game mechanics have no place here.

Game wise a fully Khornate army will brutalise the Necrons: assault, win, sweep, repeat until phase out. You might get lucky and delay the transports but as soon as they hit home your going to die.

Fluff wise: the necrons are going to win hands down: the basic gauss weapon is horrific and a ctan is a god remember, the old story about cypher and a squad of CSMs fighting the necrons springs to mind: every time the ctan brought his hand down another marine died

What's the cypher story? Sounds interesting, and i've never seen it mentioned

Mannimarco
20-11-2010, 15:21
Its in the white dwarf heroes and villains story (I think).

Not much to say really, basically sombody was watching a group of CSMs and cypher (although he isnt named IIRC) fighting against the necrons. Cypher was ducking and diving all over the place to avoid the ctans attacks even as his troops were being cut down around him, he got close and thrust his phase knife into the ctan, there was a flash and everybody vanished without trace.

Or somthing along those lines. Its been forever since I read it.

Lionsprey
20-11-2010, 20:56
Nurglites might enjoy the challenge of spreading the love through non-biological means, and the generally grim nature of a Necron means they'll enjoy trying to put a smile on their faces.
Am i the only one that got a picture in my head of nurgle worshippers throwing various unclean things at necron faces and trying to paint smileys on them?

J-rock
20-11-2010, 22:25
If they wanted to appease Khorne, and spill as much blood as possible on the battlefield, fighting to kill the necrons would be pretty fruitless unless they lost. The best way to spill the most blood would be to kill eachother. :p

Someone's never head of a metaphor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor).

Mannimarco
20-11-2010, 22:55
Ive been in this topic a few times now and every time I do the OP is right there viewing it, why lurk in your own topic?

eyescrossed
21-11-2010, 00:10
Good question. Maybe he just doesn't know what to say :p

Lord Damocles
21-11-2010, 09:12
What's the cypher story? Sounds interesting, and i've never seen it mentioned
'Heroes and Villains: Cypher' in White Dwarf 281, pg.106

GodofWarTx
21-11-2010, 10:31
To those of you who have seen the movie Office Space, i think you would remember seeing there can be a loooot of pleasure had by us mere mortals putting the hurting on a simple machine, like, oh, a Printer for example! ;)


And I would think Khorne would have a lot of reasons for issuing his servants to wage war on the necrons. As mentioned, he is the lord of battle, but also , i think he would fight them for serving the c'tan , the antithesis of a chaos god. There would be nothing more hated, i would imagine.

Mannimarco
21-11-2010, 15:42
And lets not forget the pylons. Necron pylons have an alarming habit of screwing up the warp. Id imagine the Chaos Gods would take a keen interest in any planet the Necrons start showing up on.

J-rock
21-11-2010, 16:34
There would be nothing more hated, i would imagine [than a C'Tan].

I don't know, at least C'Tans kill people. I think that Khorne hates children's tea parties and cute bunny rabbits even more.

The_NightBringer
21-11-2010, 23:00
'Heroes and Villains: Cypher' in White Dwarf 281, pg.106

Is it possible that you could post the story? I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks, Nightbringer

Lord Damocles
22-11-2010, 14:30
Upon the dead world of Cthelmax, our Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator team researched the ruins beneath the fractured crust of this barren rock. Several previous expeditions to this planet had already been lost, but an entire company of veteran soldiers and a squad of Space Marines guarded this expedition. Upon out arrival at the site of the previous expedition, we were astounded to find a battle underway between a group of dark of dark-armoured warriors and strange silver-skinned constructs of gleaming metal. They fought before a rippling gateway of jade-veined darkness as a being with skin of shimmering gold killed the warriors with ease, each laguorous blow from its hand cutting a warrior down.

But I saw that, amoungst the dark warriors, a single figure darted throught the combat, firing twin pistols and evading every blow. As the golden being turned to face him, he slashed its torso with a shining silver knife. No sooner had the blade struck than it was wrenched from his hand and swallowed whole within its golden flesh. The sounds of battle continued but a dark veil dropped around the combatants and when next I looked into the tomb, there was no sign that anything had occured. The chamber was empty.

Explorator Majoris Doreth [suppressed].M41
Cethelmax - Primus Site

'Heroes & Villains of the 41st Millenium: Cypher, The Fallen Angel' in White Dwarf 281 (UK), pg.106