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View Full Version : The Emperor-God of Humanity, Overlord of the Webway



SolkaTruesilver
20-11-2010, 03:02
Let's say Magnus didn't acted like a dumb Ork, and didn't called the Emperor, disturbing the Emperor's psykic ceremony to directly tap into the Webway.

What's. Next?

(Also, why didn't the Emperor tried to enlist Magnus help, seeing he was the most powerful, psykerly-wise? Or at least warn him of what was going to happen?)

Ozybonza
20-11-2010, 07:20
Humanity would have mastered the arts of spelling, grammar and correct use of sentences.

TheLaughingGod
20-11-2010, 07:40
Hey, hey, hey, I take issue with the title of this thread!

There is only ONE Master of the Webway

SolkaTruesilver
20-11-2010, 16:03
Hey, hey, hey, I take issue with the title of this thread!

There is only ONE Master of the Webway

What do you mean? I guess I don't really know who really controles the Webway, just that the Eldars use it to move around, and some of them directly "live" in it.

And the Emperor tried to access it, so the Golden Throne wouldn't be needed anymore.

Just wondering what was the Emprah's plan.

Spider-pope
20-11-2010, 16:07
Humanity would have had access to the webway, which in turn would reduce the need to use dangerous warp drives to travel the stars, giving the Ruinous powers one less avenue of corrupting humanity. Of course it also would have likely led humanity into a total war situation with the various breeds of Eldar and i'd imagine the laughing god wouldn't be that impressed with mon-keigh running around the webway.

SolkaTruesilver
20-11-2010, 16:14
Humanity would have had access to the webway, which in turn would reduce the need to use dangerous warp drives to travel the stars, giving the Ruinous powers one less avenue of corrupting humanity. Of course it also would have likely led humanity into a total war situation with the various breeds of Eldar and i'd imagine the laughing god wouldn't be that impressed with mon-keigh running around the webway.

Since the Horus Heresy happened relatively at the same time than the Emprah's try, I was wondering if it would have affected the outcome of the Horus Heresy. Like, Magnus calls in 3 hours later, after the Emperor suceeds.

What happens? Same outcome? Do the Emperor himself is strong ennough to protect humanity in the Webway against the Laughing God? Have the Emperor ever faced an Eldar god in a warp battle?

zook69
20-11-2010, 16:30
humanity would have mastered the arts of spelling, grammar and correct use of sentences.

unless you have a master!! In english literature, keep your sarcastic remarks to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........

zook69
20-11-2010, 16:33
unless you have a master!! In english literature, keep your sarcastic remarks to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........

before you rebuke my grammar; yes! I do mean an MA.......

Half Breed
20-11-2010, 18:48
Of course it also would have likely led humanity into a total war situation with the various breeds of Eldar

Fortunately, the Imperium's offensive forces are lead by the Invaders chapter. ;)

Joking aside, I think this might be the straw that broke the Eldar's back. If the Imperium had true access to the webway, the Eldar have little chance of stopping the Imperium from taking it by force.

That, and it's possible that the White Scars Primarch wouldn't be "lost", if the webway had been claimed by the Emperor.


and i'd imagine the laughing god wouldn't be that impressed with mon-keigh running around the webway.

Wasn't he the single (aside from Isha) Eldar pantheon deity that was not comically arrogant, and filled with self-love? I thought that was one reason why Slaanesh didn't consume him; because there was none of Slaanesh's "essence", or nature, inside him. Not to say he wouldn't be moved to aid his children, the harlequins, though.

I just can't imagine he shares the same contempt for humanity that the Eldar have.


Since the Horus Heresy happened relatively at the same time than the Emprah's try, I was wondering if it would have affected the outcome of the Horus Heresy. Like, Magnus calls in 3 hours later, after the Emperor suceeds.

What happens? Same outcome? Do the Emperor himself is strong ennough to protect humanity in the Webway against the Laughing God? Have the Emperor ever faced an Eldar god in a warp battle?

I don't think it would of had a very large impact on the Heresy either way, aside from Malcador probably surviving.

Unless somehow the Emperor could instruct his loyal sons to use the same webway to reach Terra faster. Having the Lion and the Wolf, or Guilliman, at the siege of Terra would have been devastating to the forces of Chaos.

Kage2020
20-11-2010, 18:58
before you rebuke my grammar; yes! I do mean an MA.......
Winz! :D

Sorta. :shifty:

Kage

TheLaughingGod
20-11-2010, 19:31
What do you mean? I guess I don't really know who really controles the Webway, just that the Eldars use it to move around, and some of them directly "live" in it.

And the Emperor tried to access it, so the Golden Throne wouldn't be needed anymore.

Just wondering what was the Emprah's plan.

The Laughing God is seen as the lord of the Webway. He is free to come and go as he pleases and none can catch him there, not even Slaanesh.

The Emperor failed. He was trying to create his OWN Webway, and even the Big E isn't as powerful as the Old Ones. I mean, even the Craftworld Eldar can repair sections of the Webway with their wraithbone technology, the Imperium Simply doesn't have that technology. It's entirely possible even the Emperor couldn't have made it work. (and indeed, couldn't before he died)

Kage2020
20-11-2010, 19:41
If only the Theory of Uigbealach was correct and the Eldar could travel back in time and avert the greatest of disasters...

...The writing of the Visions of the Heresy books.

Kage

Spider-pope
20-11-2010, 19:57
I don't think it would of had a very large impact on the Heresy either way, aside from Malcador probably surviving.

Unless somehow the Emperor could instruct his loyal sons to use the same webway to reach Terra faster. Having the Lion and the Wolf, or Guilliman, at the siege of Terra would have been devastating to the forces of Chaos.

I'd argue it could have had a huge impact, perhaps even forstalling the Heresy itself. A lot of the ill feeling towards the Emperor was his leaving the Crusade and going back to Earth. And the Ruinous powers play for Horus' allegiance depended entirely on convincing him that the Emperor was back on Earth trying to ascend to Godhood, a lie that would have failed if the Webway project had worked, as i imagine Horus would be the first to be told about the marvelous new discovery that would utterly change how the Great Crusade was waged.

And like you said the webway could have allowed the loyalists to redeploy easier and gain a huge tactical advantage. Of course if the rebels were to gain access too then they'd have a direct line right into the heart of the Imperium, bypassing its defenses entirely.

Archaon
20-11-2010, 20:45
Also one of the biggest flaws in the entire Heresy story.. why not tell the Primarchs the real reason why you retire from the Crusade?

At least they'd see the strategic importance of the project and realize it's not because he was bored of his sons but to start an even bigger accomplishment.

I don't know what a portal on Earth would accomplish. For one you are placing a direct entrance to the heart of your Empire for your enemies to use.. when this knowledge spreads (at the latest once the Emperor starts using it) Earth will be at great risk. No matter how much security you place around it the Eldar are still masters of the webway and have millenia of experience so they will propably try and destroy it in one gigantic battle.

If they don't it could well be that the Emperor will have to obliterate the entire Eldar race, i.e. Craftworld, Dark Eldar, Exodites and Harlquins and that may be in par with a 2nd great Crusade.

I don't think this was such a good idea and perhaps premature to get an entire, technologically far superior, race as a mortal enemy.

Kage2020
20-11-2010, 21:22
Also one of the biggest flaws in the entire Heresy story.. why not tell the Primarchs the real reason why you retire from the Crusade?
Because even the Emperor failed to read Rule #12 of the Evil Overlord list:


One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

Just a thought. :D

Kage

J-rock
20-11-2010, 21:42
As revealed in the latest Dark Eldar Codex and videos the Eldar had vast cities and entire "sub-worlds" within the webway at the time of the Emperor's attempted entrance. I don't think that the Imperium would have succeeded in a battle against the Eldar within the webway, especially not while continuing with the Great Crusade in realspace and as well as being on the Eldar's 'home turf'. From what we know of the selfishness of what we now call the Dark Eldar there's no way they would be willing to share their own private universe with anyone.

I think the only way the Emperor could have succeeded would have been by convincing a significant number of non-Dark Eldar to work together with him to defeat chaos. Perhaps his successful entry into the webway would have been a bargaining tool he could use to convince the Eldar to take him seriously as a galactic power of equal stature and so worth allying with.


unless you have a master!! In english literature, keep your sarcastic remarks to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........

What a strange thing to say.

ryng_sting
20-11-2010, 21:47
The Emperor failed. He was trying to create his OWN Webway

Mistaken. The Emperor built a small tunnel leading to an abandoned section of the webway, in a bid to colonise the rest of it for humanity's use. Then Magnus decided to phone home, and bished the whole project for good.

Thing is though, what would have happened even if that had never happened? Consider the following:

1. How would the Eldar have reacted?
2. The long slog of mapping the Webway before securing as much of it as possible.
3. Ditto setting up a safe system for Imperials to access and travel from one warp gate to another...
4. And setting up a security force to keep watch for daemons, Eldar, etc.

I'm not sure even the Emperor, at the height of his powers, without any opposition, could have ever achieved all that.

Finnith
20-11-2010, 22:28
Also one of the biggest flaws in the entire Heresy story.. why not tell the Primarchs the real reason why you retire from the Crusade?

If the Emperor suspected Eldar spies that could gain access to the primarchs the spy in Legion or if the primarchs would come into contact with powerful Eldar psychers Fulgrim meeting with the Eldar then keeping it secret from them makes perfect sense. Less chance of the Eldar getting wind of your plans and launching a full scale assault against you while your trying to build your empire.

Half Breed
21-11-2010, 02:24
I'd argue it could have had a huge impact, perhaps even forstalling the Heresy itself. A lot of the ill feeling towards the Emperor was his leaving the Crusade and going back to Earth. And the Ruinous powers play for Horus' allegiance depended entirely on convincing him that the Emperor was back on Earth trying to ascend to Godhood, a lie that would have failed if the Webway project had worked, as i imagine Horus would be the first to be told about the marvelous new discovery that would utterly change how the Great Crusade was waged.

And like you said the webway could have allowed the loyalists to redeploy easier and gain a huge tactical advantage. Of course if the rebels were to gain access too then they'd have a direct line right into the heart of the Imperium, bypassing its defenses entirely.

I can see what you mean, but I don't think by the time that Magnus messes up the project, Horus or Lorgar could be swayed from their paths. Horus and Lorgar were really changed after their Chaos inspired "eye openers". I don't think the Emperor, even if he were to reveal what he had really been doing would stop that.

That, and Angron and Curze were ticking time-bombs. Something was going to happen, with or without the Emperor revealing his hobby.

Chem-Dog
21-11-2010, 03:34
Also one of the biggest flaws in the entire Heresy story.. why not tell the Primarchs the real reason why you retire from the Crusade?

Perhaps he wasn't sure what he had. Any way you cut it, He had his reasons.


I don't know what a portal on Earth would accomplish. For one you are placing a direct entrance to the heart of your Empire for your enemies to use.. when this knowledge spreads (at the latest once the Emperor starts using it) Earth will be at great risk.

Assuming the plans don't factor in the coming heresy the Emperor's got 17 Primarchs and their Legions to call on, not to mention any number of Custodes and Mechanicum weaponry. Add the fact that the Emperor's made some kind of splice into the Webway, he controls the splice*.
Finally, I don't believe that the Eldar have the capacity to alter the Webway, they can block certain tunnels from their own end (ones that have ruptured or where the end point is hazardous) but there is never anything about them being able to build new ones or collapse them so once the Emperor is in, the best the Eldar can concievably do is make life difficult and block off things at their own end.


I can see what you mean, but I don't think by the time that Magnus messes up the project, Horus or Lorgar could be swayed from their paths. Horus and Lorgar were really changed after their Chaos inspired "eye openers". I don't think the Emperor, even if he were to reveal what he had really been doing would stop that.

Magnus wanted to warn the Emperor of events in Horus' dream quest, so no, it was too late for Horus and Lorgar at least.
Had Magnus alone of the primarchs been aware of the Webway project back on Terra, he would almost certainly been on Terra and wouldn't have been in a position to interfere in Horus' dream and warning would have come a little later.
Assuming no other great repercussions would cascade from this, it would mean Magnus and his sons would be standing at the Emperor's side at the battle of Terra.

If all of the primarchs knew....wow, you'd have to re-cast the Heresy entirely, all those Primarch who (secretly or otherwise) lobbied for the Council of Nikea could be contenders for traitor, it's clear that Nikea was done to placate some voiciferous complaints and to have revealed the nature of his project at Ullanor would have deffinitely irked some of the Primarchs.

But isn't this at least part of the reason for the Chaos God's action against the Emperor?


That, and Angron and Curze were ticking time-bombs. Something was going to happen, with or without the Emperor revealing his hobby.

I'd put thos two on the traitors list regardless. Especially when bearing in mind that Curze was already pretty much Rogue at this point.


* Did anyone else have a Herbet moment when reading that?

Son of Sanguinius
21-11-2010, 06:23
Let's say Magnus didn't acted like a dumb Ork, and didn't called the Emperor, disturbing the Emperor's psykic ceremony to directly tap into the Webway.

What's. Next?

The Emperor realizes that the webway is too much of a risk and resource drain to conquer and seals the gate on earth off.

The Emperor then discovers Magnus' continuation of sorcery through some other means and humiliates and punishes the Cyclops in the same fashion as the Urizen. Magnus, being even worse at handling ridicule and orders than Lorgar, snaps and embarks on an endeavor to prove himself superior to the Emperor. As Horus rebels, Magnus begins to justify his one-ups-manship by claiming that the Emperor is no longer interested enlightening humanity. Magnus joins Horus and embraces the Changer of Ways, who tells Magnus of the webway and of the Black Library and its awesome repository of knowledge. The Demon Primarch decides to penetrate the Black Library and consume that knowledge.

Shall I continue? :)


(Also, why didn't the Emperor tried to enlist Magnus help, seeing he was the most powerful, psykerly-wise? Or at least warn him of what was going to happen?)

Because Magnus was an arrogant intellectual that considered himself beyond moral justifications and ramifications and, once presented with the true scope and possibilities of the webway, he would not be able to resist combing its depths and coming face to face with the horrible truth of Chaos.

mob16151
22-11-2010, 13:19
Because Magnus was an arrogant intellectual that considered himself beyond moral justifications and ramifications and, once presented with the true scope and possibilities of the webway, he would not be able to resist combing its depths and coming face to face with the horrible truth of Chaos.

Got to be honest here, Magnus spent his life playing in the warp. I doubt he's going to run into anything in the webway, he wouldn't run into just by closing his eyes and concentrating.

Son of Sanguinius
22-11-2010, 19:29
Got to be honest here, Magnus spent his life playing in the warp. I doubt he's going to run into anything in the webway, he wouldn't run into just by closing his eyes and concentrating.

Closing his eyes and concentrating didn't help him see Tzeentch's machinations or the sheer power of the Lord of Change.

grayghost
01-12-2010, 01:53
Whatever happened to the Webway gates on Terra and Mars?

shadowhawk2008
01-12-2010, 04:19
Whatever happened to the Webway gates on Terra and Mars?

Magnus' intervention caused the tunnel/doorway the Emperor had opened into the Terran webway gate to collapse completely, causing untold numbers of daemons to flood the chamber and countless of the Emperor's workers were killed before the gate was sealed forever iirc.

And there is a webway gate on mars?